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JB1K
06-14-2010, 09:08 AM
I know I have seen some posts on here regarding three wheeling (and how to calm it down), but I havenít had any luck finding them. Need some general suggestions on how to keep the LF on the ground without hurting fwd drive.

gadirtracer
06-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Longer LF shock!:D

junebug
06-15-2010, 12:50 AM
best way ive found is added right upper bar angle, it drives the car back over on left front and doesnt seem to hurt drive at all in some cases i think it might hav even helped drive off

23m
06-15-2010, 07:33 AM
Stiffer right rear spring...

Matt49
06-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Move the 5th coil back toward the rear-end.

diplomunity
06-15-2010, 01:22 PM
a longer right front doesnt increase weight to that corner and let it grip it just lets the tire have a better chance at touching the ground. just because its touching doesnt mean its loaded. the added spring rate on the right rear or added upper bar angle on the right rear will keep some weight on the left front letting it get some of the grip needed to avoid pushing with only one tire gripping the surface.

JB1K
06-15-2010, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the replies. Im a little snug on entry, so Im hesitant to stiffen up the RR spring, but I can be talked out of it. I already have the top right rod in the top hole. If I lower the top left rod, does this acomplish the same thing?

Anyone know how much LR drop a MasterS should have?

Matt49
06-15-2010, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the replies. Im a little snug on entry, so Im hesitant to stiffen up the RR spring, but I can be talked out of it. I already have the top right rod in the top hole. If I lower the top left rod, does this acomplish the same thing?

Anyone know how much LR drop a MasterS should have?

Lowering the top left rod doesn't accomplish the same thing as raising the right top rod. By lowering the top left rod you are reducing drive angle on that corner and reducing roll oversteer. It could help your hiking problem but it could also free you up on exit because itís taking drive out of the LR. I would seriously consider moving your 5th coil back unless you are already at 33" or closer. This could help some of your tight entry problems also. With the 5th coil further back, you will lose some rear traction further down the straight and this might help you turning the car in and allow you to use less brake if that's what you are doing now to set it.
What are your weight percentages? Where is your j-bar? How banked is the race track?
Is it hiked up in all track conditions or just in the tacky stuff?
I'm with you about not going to a stiffer RR. If youíre already tight on entry that's going to make your problem worse because you are going to have to turn the car harder to get it to rotate and that is ultimately going to set it over even more and up the LR will go.
LR drop on a MasterSbilt should be 12-14 inches (axle tube to frame rail) and stop/control it with a chain not a shock. And make sure your chain is mounted TO THE AXLE TUBE and not to the birdcage. I assume you are measuring using the old jack under the seat trick.

joedoozer
06-15-2010, 03:49 PM
a longer right front doesnt increase weight to that corner and let it grip it just lets the tire have a better chance at touching the ground. just because its touching doesnt mean its loaded. the added spring rate on the right rear or added upper bar angle on the right rear will keep some weight on the left front letting it get some of the grip needed to avoid pushing with only one tire gripping the surface.

I think gadirtracer was joking......hence the smiley. Made me laugh.

junebug
06-15-2010, 06:23 PM
raising the right upper might be a good option if your tight on entry i think it seems to make the car turn in better also becuz of the added roll steer on entry i kno it loads the rr a little more and the adjustment guides say it tightens entry but on my car the rollsteer seems to be a bigger effect then the amount it loads the tire, i guess it can load em up all it wants if there pointed the right direction thats where its gonna go :D

JB1K
06-16-2010, 09:11 AM
Lowering the top left rod doesn't accomplish the same thing as raising the right top rod. By lowering the top left rod you are reducing drive angle on that corner and reducing roll oversteer. It could help your hiking problem but it could also free you up on exit because itís taking drive out of the LR. I would seriously consider moving your 5th coil back unless you are already at 33" or closer. This could help some of your tight entry problems also. With the 5th coil further back, you will lose some rear traction further down the straight and this might help you turning the car in and allow you to use less brake if that's what you are doing now to set it.
What are your weight percentages? Where is your j-bar? How banked is the race track?
Is it hiked up in all track conditions or just in the tacky stuff?
I'm with you about not going to a stiffer RR. If youíre already tight on entry that's going to make your problem worse because you are going to have to turn the car harder to get it to rotate and that is ultimately going to set it over even more and up the LR will go.
LR drop on a MasterSbilt should be 12-14 inches (axle tube to frame rail) and stop/control it with a chain not a shock. And make sure your chain is mounted TO THE AXLE TUBE and not to the birdcage. I assume you are measuring using the old jack under the seat trick.

Here is my current setup:
2001 MasterSbilt
Left: 55.1%
Rear: 54.0%
Bite: 130 lbs
2360 lbs total
Above includes 20ga of fuel & driver (steel block / alum heads, wet sump)

J-bar: 8Ē on frame, 2nd click up on pinion (Im thinking about moving this up to the middle)

LR drop: 13.25"

Springs:
LF: 500 RF: 425
LR: 250 RR: 225

Banked 1/3 mile track, aprox 18į straights / 22į corners. Track stays pretty tacky thru the feature.

The car isnt bad, just a little snug on entry and 3 wheeling down the straits. Need it more driveable in traffic and I figure if I can get all 4 tires on the ground it would help

Matt49
06-16-2010, 12:36 PM
Your percentages don't look bad. Your j-bar adjustment (raise on pinion) might help you free up entry and will limit hike=keep LF down.
For tacky track conditions, you might also consider less bite and using bar adjustments to get the drive back in the car.

MasterSbilt_Racer
06-16-2010, 12:43 PM
In my experience, you won't be fast unless it totes the lf a bit with that car. The only way to eliminate it completely and be fast is to go to the new on the rf setups. That car doesn't have the ground clearance to do it.

JB1K
06-17-2010, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Iím going to try moving the j bar up on the pinion and go from there. By the way: I have a limiter chain (to the axle tube) now, but what is the disadvantage of using a shock to limit travel? I suppose the LR drop may change when changing bar angles, but hypothetically: if you were to leave the bars alone, is using a shock as the travel limiter a problem? Just curious.

Matt49
06-17-2010, 12:10 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. Iím going to try moving the j bar up on the pinion and go from there. By the way: I have a limiter chain (to the axle tube) now, but what is the disadvantage of using a shock to limit travel? I suppose the LR drop may change when changing bar angles, but hypothetically: if you were to leave the bars alone, is using a shock as the travel limiter a problem? Just curious.

One disadvantage is the one you mentioned: the amount of limit will change as you change bar angles, lengths, etc.
To me though, the biggest disadvantage is that you are going to end up destroying your shock if you use it as a travel limiter on the LR. They are not designed to take that kind of abuse.

junebug
06-17-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm sorry I completely missd that u already had the upper in the top hole...why not try softening the rf spring that always seems to calm em down by takin dynamic wedge out.

JB1K
06-18-2010, 09:21 AM
One disadvantage is the one you mentioned: the amount of limit will change as you change bar angles, lengths, etc.
To me though, the biggest disadvantage is that you are going to end up destroying your shock if you use it as a travel limiter on the LR. They are not designed to take that kind of abuse.

Good point - I agree. I was curious to see if having the travel limiter on the cage vs. the axle tube affected indexing or anything else (assuming both were set to allow the same amount of drop)?

JB1K
06-18-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm sorry I completely missd that u already had the upper in the top hole...why not try softening the rf spring that always seems to calm em down by takin dynamic wedge out.

Thanks for the sugestion. I have tried as low as a 350# RF spring, which helps, but the RS frame rail ends up rubbing the track.

junebug
06-18-2010, 06:28 PM
i run a bump stop in the rf that might be a good option since your not able to run a soft enuff spring without rubbin on the rf, it lets u get away with a ton soft spring if theres anyway u could put one on it might solve ur problem

Brown Motorsports
06-20-2010, 07:01 PM
Good point - I agree. I was curious to see if having the travel limiter on the cage vs. the axle tube affected indexing or anything else (assuming both were set to allow the same amount of drop)?

Im also wondering what the affects of having the chain on the BC vs. AT. Someone please fill us in.