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View Full Version : Afco vs. Ohlins shocks



JAMESGANGRACING
11-10-2010, 07:34 PM
Can the M2's be made made to perform as well as a Ohlins?

lazermod3
11-14-2010, 09:05 AM
no

try bilstein about as close as you can get without breaking the bank

JAMESGANGRACING
11-14-2010, 07:56 PM
i was hoping one of you shock guys could give me an opinion.

TALON75
11-14-2010, 08:25 PM
From the Info I have been able to gather so far it would take a bit of work to make an M2 like an ohlin . First is the piston design of the m2 not being as optimal as an ohlin or penske, but it is a 46mm piston just like the ohlin only the inside dia. is different and would require a bushing or machining and probably some cust shims . The other problem seems to be with the nitrogen bladder not working as good as a floating piston design that most other shock companies use . So I think it could be done, would only be cost effective if you already have a set but wouldn't be if you bought them new, and I don't think anyone has actually done anything like this yet, I am going to try it with a set of M2's we got but I have a bunch of other things I need to do before I start down this path that may be a dead end .

Ltemodel
11-15-2010, 08:37 AM
I have put Ohlins pistons in steel body Bilsteins before. It actually works pretty well. You just need to be pretty precise on cutting the adapter sleeve. Too long and the piston and shims don't torque down; too short and the shims aren't aligned properly.

Kevin

pcope98
11-15-2010, 11:17 AM
for some eye oepning info on the afco stuff you should talk to kirk at envy,you would be suprised at what can be done to the shocks to make them much much better then off the shelf....

JR. MECHANIC
11-15-2010, 09:36 PM
So what makes a Ohlins better than an AFCO? I'm kinda looking for more in depth answers than, "They have a better piston." I'd like to hear what makes their piston better. What separates an AFCO linear/linear piston from a ohlins or penske linear/linear piston? If anyone has any experience with dealing with both afco's and ohlin's and can give me a logical answer, that would be appreciated. I find it hard to believe that an AFCO could not be valved to match an ohlins.

talclipse
11-16-2010, 06:49 AM
First let me say that I am not a shock expert and what follows is based solely on our experience.
We ran the AFCO M2 shocks for 2+ seasons before switching one car to Ohlins and the other to Integra IDAs.

The biggest complaint I had with the AFCO M2 shocks was their durability. During the course of the time we broke 4-5 shock ends. Each one at virtually the same place (where the chamfer for the rod ends began). Each time AFCO 'fixed' the shock we were assured they had corrected their shaft design.

Aside from the durability issues the feel of the car was not near what it is with the other shock packages we have ran. I believe this is at least partially due to the fact that the AFCO shocks use a bladder as opposed to the divider piston. It was probably possible to get the feel from the AFCO shocks but with the durability issues we decided to go a different direction.

Ltemodel
11-16-2010, 12:33 PM
Not all of the feel in a shock is in the valving. There is so much built into the design of the shock. I believe the biggest thing in a shock is increasing the responsiveness of the shock while still maintaining wheel control. For instance, when mono tube shocks first made their way into the dirt market most people hated them. They were great in the rough wet, but sucked in the slick. They ran high gas pressure, small gas volume and their response was terrible. Everyone wanted their old fashioned twin tube shocks, and the more they leaked, the better they liked them. Their responsiveness was much better than the mono tube stuff. As the mono tube shocks started incorporating base valves and larger gas volumes, the responsiveness increased and everyone started to part ways with their twin tube stuff for the slick.

Now many shocks look a like on the exterior, so it can be difficult to tell the difference just by looking at them. Most of the advantages now are built into the interior design to try and make them more responsive. The Ohlins high frequency piston is a way to increase response by bleeding off pressure as the shock changes direction.

Pressure balancing shocks is another way many people are using to increase response. The composition of the hose, the material and the design of the body can eliminate hysteresis. That is why the Ohlins piggy back shock is a much better design than the hose. The design of the bleed orifice or jet, base valve design, or even the main piston design and shim diameter make a difference in the feel of the shock.

Unless you really want to geek out on shocks, just call one of the shock services to get what you need. Factory shocks are ok, but many times the volume the factories go through it will be hard to get the type of assistance an aftermarket shock re-builder will give you. I do shocks around home for guys, and there are many nationally known re-builders out there that will take good care of you.

Good luck on your shock journey,
Kevin

let-r-eat
05-14-2012, 11:56 PM
Also here is understanding what you need. There is a steep learning curve when your adjusting shim stacks in shocks and understanding what you're doing. There are computer programs out there that will analyze the shim stack in the configuration and tell you what adjustments you need to make etc to achieve a certain pattern, but all of this depends on knowing what works.This is where you need someone that knows what they're doing.

SS Motorsports
05-15-2012, 08:56 AM
Your best option is probably to call Envy Suspension, to my knowledge he has more experience with the M-2's than anyone else(He helped design them). Just weed out all of the stories he is likely to tell you about how good he is and listen to the information he gives you.

MasterSbilt_Racer
05-16-2012, 10:57 AM
One problem with the M2s is the hysteresis. Basically, there is little to no damping when the shaft first changes direction. I imagine there are tricks that help somewhat.

ENVY Suspension
05-16-2012, 05:52 PM
I love you shock guys on here!!!! ITS HILARIOUS to read some of the posts.
Shocks are shocks. What matters is the PISTON and, how the shims are arranged for the dampening side. I also read something about the Afco having a bladder and being "less responsive". Uuummm ok, dont know what that person is thinking but rubber is way more responsive than aluminum last I checked. So, to put it straight, it really depends on what you want and how much you want to spend...

Kirk Loudy
ENVY Suspension

sobe92
05-16-2012, 08:05 PM
wish 4m had a like button for a post..