Starter for 602/604

[RacerX10]

Is there any good reason not to run a $50.00 Autozone starter on these crate engines ?

[supercomet32]

ITS FROM AUTOZONE should be reason enough....as for why. autozone parts fail too often to trust on a race machine. it wont handle the conditions nor hold up to the abuse. the best reason to use one is take your car out of contention without warning when it fails to fire or chews up your flywheel in order to ensure you bets against yourself come through.

oh yeah and chances are its made in china....three great things come from china kung fu, general tso's pork chicken or beef and in shape porn stars......i doubt either of those will help your race program though if your not used to it the general tso's chicken might make you drive faster to get to the bathroom.

stick to quality american made parts from a reputable source. not a cheap parts distributor dealing in high quantity deals that give you a low price.

[RacerX10]

I've used an Autozone starter for an entire racing season before .. 0 problems. I was asking more about people running a stock starter on a crate engine because it has a low compression ratio and a vanilla starter should (in theory) work just fine.

I'm doubting you can show me an actual starter MOTOR that was made in the USA, but feel free to prove me wrong :) I've see many, many "race" parts that are nothing more than an off the shelf part with a racy-looking sticker on it and a quadrupled price tag added.

Thanks for your comments.

[Egoracing]

A 604 is 10:1 so you would need a high torque at the very least.

[RacerX10]

A 604 is 10:1 so you would need a high torque at the very least.

Odd .. the 604 data sheet I have says 9.6:1 which is very common in daily drivers (incl mid-80's chevy 350 pickups) that are using $50.00 Autozone starters just fine.

Not looking to argue here, just soliciting opinions and I appreciate yours .. thanks :)

I think this is going to be one of those deals where I just try it out and see how it goes.

[Egoracing]

Odd .. the 604 data sheet I have says 9.6:1 which is very common in daily drivers (incl mid-80's chevy 350 pickups) that are using $50.00 Autozone starters just fine.

Not looking to argue here, just soliciting opinions and I appreciate yours .. thanks :)

I think this is going to be one of those deals where I just try it out and see how it goes.

Most performance engines in the mid 80's were 9:1 and production engines were in the 7-8:1 ratio. The Corvette in 1981 was only 8.2:1, in 82 and 84 it was the L81 engine at 9:1 and the 85-92 it was the L98 which was 9.5:1. These are all the "Performance" engines and all had factory high torque starters.

[RacerX10]

1969 l-48 10.25:1

1969 l-46 11:1

1969 lq-3 10.25.1

1970 lt-1 11:1

1981 le-9 9.5:1

1983 l-69 9.5:1

1991 l-98 10:1

[Egoracing]

The old engines were leaded fuel and they were over 10:1 and they did use high torque starters. You said mid 80's, the LE9 is a 150hp 305 at 9:1, not a 350, Not sure what a L69 is but the LG9 is again a 305 at 145hp.
Here is a page listing specs for Corvette engines which have the highest compression of the small block chevy during the gen 1 years, ALL had high torque starters.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/GM_Small-Block_engine
I will agree that some newer are higher (over 9:1), the 94 silverado and 94 Suburban I had both were higher compression and BOTH had factory gear reduction high torque starters. Anything above 9:1 factory requires premium fuel.

[RacerX10]

I guess it would depend on what we are calling a "high torque" starter.

Speedway sells a racing mini-starter that that they call "high torque" and it's 1.4 kw.

The $39.00 AutoZone starter is 1.2 kw.

Not a heck of a lot of difference there (~0.25hp)

For the record, I'm kinda thinking a better reason to run a mini starter is 10 less lbs in front of the flexplate :)

<shrug>

[hillbilly21]

as far as weight i guess it depends on wich factory or "auto zone" starter you use if you get one for a "80's" sbc you will get the really big and heavy one if you get one for a 1998 full size chevy/gmc pick up it will be a lighter and smaller "mini starter" wich i have on my "602" crate for the last two complete season's yes the same napa stock replacement starter i even baught a identicle one used from a junk yard to have on the trailer just in case and i have yet to need it . and by the way those expensive "race" starters are made to turn over high compression engines wich the good ones will but the ability to turn one over has NOTHING TO DO WITH LONGEVITY BEFORE YOU AUTOMATICLY THINK THE MORE YOU SPEND THE LONGER IT WILL LAST THINK AGAIN. check out the warranty on the high dollor starter guess what it says something along the lines of this is a electrical componet made for racing and there is no written or applied warranty so when it breaks wich they do you are out big bucks . and they do have a place in open motors. however the "604" nore the "602" is not and does not require anything but a stock replacement wich by the way do carry a warranty and you could by one and a spare and still be half of a "race starter" or less .

[RacerX10]

as far as weight i guess it depends on wich factory or "auto zone" starter you use if you get one for a "80's" sbc you will get the really big and heavy one if you get one for a 1998 full size chevy/gmc pick up it will be a lighter and smaller "mini starter" wich i have on my "602" crate for the last two complete season's yes the same napa stock replacement starter i even baught a identicle one used from a junk yard to have on the trailer just in case and i have yet to need it . and by the way those expensive "race" starters are made to turn over high compression engines wich the good ones will but the ability to turn one over has NOTHING TO DO WITH LONGEVITY BEFORE YOU AUTOMATICLY THINK THE MORE YOU SPEND THE LONGER IT WILL LAST THINK AGAIN. check out the warranty on the high dollor starter guess what it says something along the lines of this is a electrical componet made for racing and there is no written or applied warranty so when it breaks wich they do you are out big bucks . and they do have a place in open motors. however the "604" nore the "602" is not and does not require anything but a stock replacement wich by the way do carry a warranty and you could by one and a spare and still be half of a "race starter" or less .

Thanks hillbilly, I wasn't aware there was a smaller / lighter OEM type .. I'll try and find that. Do you happen to have a part number for it ?

[hillbilly21]

no sorry i don have a part number but just ask for a late 90's full size chevy pick up with a 5.7 litre engine. like 95-96-97-98 anywere in there they are half the size of a early starter

[Egoracing]

Those are gear reduction, hi torque starters. I never said you needed a race style starter. Hillbilly if the parts store knew you were putting the parts on a racecar they would not have a warranty either as it states in there warranty policy.

[hillbilly21]

well i never said to go in and advertise its going on a race car and the point is a parts store starter =no problemo dude. and what i said is just to comfort him in his choice of a parts store starter and so i could point him in the direction to the right one it wasent a shot at anybody i consider everyones opinion a very good resource of knowledge on here just stating my experiance to help a brother out i hope he spends the 50 or 60 at the zone and spends the rest he was going to use on tires as the stock type starters work just fine.

[Egoracing]

I agree with you but saying a racing part has no warranty but the stock replacement you use is not true. I have also had racing companies replace parts that were bad or went bad early in there life.
The mid 90's rear reduction starter is a REALLY good piece and I know several people that use them on some STOUT engines with no issues. The Original "MINI" starters that many companies sold are just stock starters with an adapter block bolted on to make it fit a small block chevy or ford.

[blackdragster]

get one for a 1998 full size chevy/gmc pick up it will be a lighter and smaller "mini starter"

this is a great starter, much better than those little tilton type. ran 1 4 3 years on my slm way back when...

[blackdragster]

also for the bert bell housing u can try this.

Alright, here's the deal. A 1987 Toyota pickup starter for the 22R engine @ Autozone Auto Parts part #16674X for $49.99 with one-year warranty. Don't spring the extra $20 bucks for the lifetime warranty starter because your going to modify it and the warranty will be void anyway.

should be able to do it in 35-40 minutes max.

1. Remove starter head, be careful because there's a middle gear that has a shaft through it that comes out when you remove the head and the gear has roller bearings in it that could fall out. But if they do they are simple to put back in the bottom of the gear.
2. Remove the gear drive from the starter head.
3. Disassemble the gear drive by pushing the shaft up and the gear down to expose the lock ring. Remove the lock ring so you can remove the gear, now remove the small spring, large spring and the washer that has inner grooves and trash them. You'll also leave off the lock ring and ring that was at the end of the gear. Re-assemble the gear drive and get ready to do some welding. Put the gear flush with the end of the shaft and weld it there. You will need to leave the long spring that sticks up out of the starter when the gear drive is removed. The two springs to leave out are IN the gear drive.
4. You now need to get ready to cut on the starter head. There are two "rings" where the starter shaft comes through the head. One is the large one that lines the starter up, the other is smaller right around the hole where the gear comes through. You need to cut the inner/small ring so it's level with the outer ring if you were to lay a straight edge across them.
5. Re-assemble the starter gear drive and starter head onto the starter and tighten bolts.
6. Now remove the cover on the other end of the starter that has 3 small screws holding it on. Take the centerpiece out and put some silicone on the contact that has one small wire to help prevent it from breaking and re-assemble that end. Put your jumper wire on and your ready.

ps make sure the starter gear has a back stop made on the gear. some dont they are open .. if it dont have the back stop it will not engage the bert starter gear to the engine flywheel

[RacerX10]

also for the bert bell housing u can try this

Awesome post .. I love stuff like this :)

If I do it I'll try and get some pictures maybe we can put up a page somewhere with instructions.

I think I picked up one of those starters about 10 years ago but didn't know about the modifications it needed and never tried to get it working.

[RacerX10]

Here is a link to the starter if anyone is interested :

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Import-Starter/1987-Toyota-Pickup-2WD/_/N-iivveZ93xl9?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=starter&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=336420_48987_0_

[Egoracing]

The import unit sells for $70 here, put in your zip and lets see how much the price changes!
The smaller GM unit is $150 locally, in FLA when I bought mine it was almost $200 now they are showing there for $170.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Gold-Duralast-Starter/1994-Chevrolet-C1500-1-2ton-Sub-2WD/_/N-j0ktxZ93xl9?counter=1&itemIdentifier=352107_43652_0_

[powerslide]

starter on my mod went out and was searching for the post on how to make your own reverse mount starter out of the toyota starter thought i would bump it back up

[Chris Steele]

...if you do get a starter that don't have the 'backstop' or flatback on it, just simply weld a large thick flat washer on it.

[powerslide]

didnt you start a thread for this chris? i couldnt find it and thats the one i was really looking for thought it was more detailed

[Chris Steele]

didnt you start a thread for this chris? i couldnt find it and thats the one i was really looking for thought it was more detailed

Yes, I posted those exact instructions a couple years ago.

[powerslide]

got this done and it was very simple. Motor is at the builders being looked at will report back how it whirls it over when i get it back.

[Chris Steele]

An old thread I thought I'd bring back to the top.....you'll find detailed instructions on here that I passed around many years ago on how to use a Toyota starter on your reverse mount bellhousing. It's simple and VERY affordable so you can buy a brand new spare and keep in your race hauler.

[brad hibbard]

The man of steel

How are you Chris?
I thought I might see you in Gatlinburg----whoop whoop---LOL

I forgot all about that starter tip ----I am gonna have to revisit the info

thanks for posting

Brad
www.race-1.com

[Chris Steele]

Hey Brad I'm doing good and hope you are too. I didn't race any Fastrak stuff this year but would have loved to been in Gatlinburg just for the whoop whooping lol. Maybe in the next couple of years I'll get back on the tour with some better equipment and have a shot at winning a points championship. We done pretty dam n good in 2016 finishing 2nd in the Fastrak MOV touring points and 3rd in the Fastrak Southeast touring points considering we were running a 2004 Rocket