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swrracing99
01-07-2011, 10:06 PM
I see they only make 3 different rates in the 20" springs and they are very light. If you were going to run these what would you run as far as rate. I understand that you preload them quit a bit and that helps create lift but what other advantages are there to these springs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

bushracing67
01-08-2011, 06:10 PM
it seems to work pretty good, i played with it last year, the 100# is too heavy for my car weighing is less than 2900, i could prolly use a 75#, i would think 125 would be ok if your car is in the 3600# neighborhood, as long as you 3000-3200 you want the 100#

steveshawjr
01-08-2011, 07:09 PM
im also looking for the 20" springs for a friend got a good base setup to use with them just cant find the springs who makes them?


nevermind found them

stock car driver
01-08-2011, 09:55 PM
Unless your unloading completely a 13 or 16 inch spring there is no benefit to running a longer spring.

bushracing67
01-09-2011, 04:04 PM
i agree, however i was completely unloading a 13" and i have never tried a 16" i just skipped over it and went 20"

the springs are made by hypercoil, afco offers some lighter rate 18" springs as well

stock car driver
01-09-2011, 06:01 PM
Ive got a new hypercoil 20" here in the box Ill sell. I bought it for a second time to rate it in my rater and make sure I posted factual data about how it wont work any better than a 16".

Considering I had to add a foot onto my rater I dont think many have done the actual rating or comparing etc.

Dirtrunner35
01-09-2011, 06:22 PM
Could you explain how a lighter, taller spring would be no better then a heavier, shorter one ? Thanks

tucker71
01-09-2011, 10:57 PM
congrats on your win at the ice bowl. good looking car you got. what kinda car is it?

swrracing99
01-10-2011, 08:04 PM
thats kind of what I was looking for was why people was running them other than unloading the 13" springs. The way I was figuring it even if you have the same wheel weight on the scales the taller spring would be all bound up with a lighter spring rate and less pressure on the tire. Why wouldnt you run a light weight 13" spring and bind it up if that was the case. Im just a little confused about all of this.

bushracing67
01-14-2011, 09:41 AM
the idea is kind of like a jack in the box, when the car is sitting at ride height the spring is bound up, however there is plenty of weight on the lr wheel, when a spring is in a bind in increases rate, increasing weight, the difference is that one hand on the rear bumper and you can easily lift the car 4-6", when you hit the corner and the weight rolls over to the right that "jack in the box" is ready to come out, the lr hikes up and the mechanical drive takes over via bar angle

dirt2
01-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Reasons for unloading the left rear with a 13" spring.
Other springs wrong.
Trying to three wheel car with
wrong setup.
Left rear shock topping out on extension.
Wrong weight percentages in setup.
Ballast placement wrong.

bushracing67
01-14-2011, 05:15 PM
yeah... car would get into the the corner, roll over on rf, top lr shock, pick lr tire up off the ground, it was a great set up to 3 wheel.... but it was the wrong 3 wheels, had i moved the shock to allow the lr to stay on the ground it would have allowed enough room for my spring to fall out on corner entry... how would you suggest i fix the problem ?

dirt2
01-14-2011, 09:58 PM
I would need to know the complete setup on
the car. Total weight & percentages with driver,
springs & shocks along with ballast placement.
If need be list it in a PM.
dirt2

stockcar5
01-14-2011, 11:00 PM
sounds like your rf spring is way off. lots of good handling street stocks out there and they dont pull the lr off the ground...

fattboyee
01-15-2011, 02:58 PM
sounds like your rf spring is way to soft and the lr shock is to heavy and pulling the lr off the ground. i bet driving that thing is fuuuuuuuuuuuun

bushracing67
01-17-2011, 09:12 AM
that was in 2007, it was a feature winning car, front springs were rf1400/lf1200 rr250/lr225, front shocks bilstien 1043, rr bilstien sz95, lr sz953, total weight was around 3250 (had a 3200# rule) rear varied, i ran it from 50.5-52.5 rear depending on track conditions, left was 53-56%, ballast was all over the place, most just behind springs and mounted on frame rails, one 40# chunk was mounted up higher above lr spring, around 35# lr heavy, running 10" wheels wit ar late model tires, also ran same set up with ar 265 metric tires, and ar e-mod tires, had several top 5s with the ar metric 8" tires.. that track had a rotation so i came from last every f@#ing time i was there, including a 4th in a 1k to win race that had 40 cars.

i did only have the lr coming off the ground with the late model tires, however i am sure it was unloading almost as bad on the little tires, it just wasn't bad enough to visually see the problem from the stands, now that i have been playing with the 20" spring for a couple years my scale numbers and percentages are almost the same now as they were then, my car is about 2850# total, front springs 1050lf/1200rf, 100lr/150-200rr 13" depending on track, shocks bilstien small body straight 6 rf/old a$$ afco hydraulic lf, bilstein lr 5/3, rr sz94... my thoughts are this: no matter what you are using or where you are racing, if you have a good set up, having a 16-20lr spring will never hurt you, having the extra spring pressure on the lr is never a bad thing (except sometimes in the heat races) the car reacts different on and off the throttle, it can take a little bit of adapting on the drivers part, you will never get the car to feel the same as it did on the shorter spring, however what you do gain center off is amazing, and imo worth making the change

stock car driver
01-17-2011, 10:07 PM
wow compressing a 1400# rf spring is something I didnt know was possible. You must have your motor about 5 inches higher than mine in the chassis.

bushracing67
01-18-2011, 08:46 PM
yeah prolly was at least 3" higher, i run small block ford, so had to pick the motor up quite a bit for oil pan clearance

sea_bee77
01-20-2011, 11:13 AM
i had 16 inch springs in my car and it was bound up. i didnt get any movement out of my springs. the car would just bounce. any ideas. i went to 11inch springs but i feel it is hurting me with bite coming out of corners. im pretty new to this. this will be my second full year of racing. tks

bushracing67
01-20-2011, 05:28 PM
did you lower the shock mount on the frame or add a shock extension when you put the 16" spring in ?

bushracing67
01-20-2011, 05:35 PM
did you lower the shock mount on the frame or add a shock extension when you put the 16" spring in ?

here jeff, that is a 1400# in the rf, that is getting into the corner just about at the perfect spot where it would be getting over on the rf the most

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/bushracing67/racing/IMG_4546.jpg

fast_crew
01-20-2011, 11:47 PM
I think what some are forgetting is if you use taller springs of the same rate, all you did is rasie the rideheight, (the springs won't coil bind as easy aswell but that's a different subject), Lower the ride height car will handle the same as long as your springs were not coil binding before.

The long 20" springs are used when the rate is so soft (100lbs), that the spring would be coil bound and the ride height would be to low if it was shorter.

3kstreeter
01-22-2011, 11:28 AM
i have tried this set up and liked it but have also found other setups that work better and keep all 4 wheels on the ground.
simply put race springs are rated in lbs. per inch. for simple maths sake lets say you have a 300lb l/r spring and when you go into the corner 300 lbs of wheel load comes off that corner the spring will raise 1 inch.
if you have a 100 lb spring and the same weight comes off the spring will raise 3 inches which puts bite in the car and you get quite a bit of rear steer.
when i ran this set up i thought it was the greatest thing until last year we where required to run transponders and with a normal set up (4 wheel on the ground) my lap times where faster. the car was much easier to drive. not to mention if you go through a corner with a heavy street stock and hit a bad rut on three wheels crap breakes. if someone wanted to try this set up i would only try it if your track is normally smooth and not alot of ruts.

sea_bee77
01-22-2011, 02:29 PM
no bush i havent changed shock mounts which makes perfect since to why it was causing me to not get any play in my springs. so should i move mounts and go to taller springs or just stick to the 11 inch ones i have, i would like to try this 20 inch setup but have no idea where to start. i made huge gains this year in my cars handling but still am not getting the bite i need coming out.

sea_bee77
01-22-2011, 02:36 PM
so bush would i need to go to a different shock because im already at full stroke when i put the shocks on. the shocks are in the stock location. their the butterfly bolt type

bushracing67
01-22-2011, 10:51 PM
i do not run stock mount, but i believe some of the guys were using a stock rear bilstein from a later model s-10 blazer, might be able to grab one from a bone yard cheap and try it, i think they bolt right up and have a longer extended length, the other thing you could do is fab up a new mount on the axle 2-3" higher than the stock mounting hole... and that is free

bushracing67
01-22-2011, 11:03 PM
in my personal experience 11" is not enough rear spring for the left rear on a metric, 13" makes a huge difference, and with a 20" you never have to worry about running out of down travel again.... keep the rr spring heavy enough to keep the lf on the ground and play with the set up til you get it where you want it, rf camber is important, i'm running around -4.5 degrees

i was playing around with rr spring alot this year, i was running 150/175/200 depending on track.. 150 was too light for me on a heavy track, 200 hurt me on the slick, 175 worked decent all around but switching from the 150 to the 200 depending on track conditions was a slight gain, im going to play with some even heavier for the heat races next year, the drive with that 20" spring killed me in the heats, my examples can be a bit extreme since i run late model tires, but it should be a usable base line for you, the changes that gave me too much bite might be your best friend if you are running dot or a harder narrower race tire

Hammer
01-23-2011, 09:53 AM
the problem with this set up its to inconsistent .. i won a couple of races with the 20in spring and you win in dominating fashion(every slick track), the car was just wicket fast, then the following week couldn't get out of its own way(track conditions were really close). i always run 13in springs and was just looking for more so i tried the 20 in and played with it a lot just not fast every night. the 13 in spring are way more consistent ever week with little changes( for me ). every setup needs something different, weight placement is a key rule in every set up. jmo

buterbaughb1
01-23-2011, 07:18 PM
I run 11" springs with late model tires...250LR 200RR. Its fast with a heavy track, but can't get anywhere on a slick track. Now I run weightjacks, and have the top plate (with the stationary threads) flush with the stock coil seat. I've seen pics with cars that have the bucket welded on top, raising the top seat of the spring a inch or two. Is that where your using a 13" spring?

sea_bee77
01-23-2011, 10:41 PM
so could you run a 13 inch 100lb spring on the lr and keep an 11 inch on the rr and get the same effect just not as much roll. and when you guys run this 20 in spring what are you setting your cross rear and left percentages at.

bushracing67
01-24-2011, 12:08 AM
of everything i have played with, i can tell you this, for me the worst set up i ever had with rr heavy spring was better than the best car i ever had with lr heavy spring, i believe it was my 3rd year racing i swapped rear springs and instantly went to being a front running car, i 13" 100# spring would bind way to early, my advice would be to play with a 16" 125#-150# and see how it works for you, im gonna play with a 16" lr for heat races this year, and thats a big 10-4 on the spring buckets.... i do not even run a bucket on the lr anymore, i have an adjustable clamp on mount for a the jack bolt so i can slide it up and down, i can go from an 11" spring to a 20"+ if i need to by loosening a clamp

sea_bee77
01-24-2011, 11:18 AM
so would you keep the 11 in spring in on the rr or switch it out to 16 also. what do you recommend the weight be for the rr if i go with this setup. i also dont have spring buckets welded in on my car. do i have to do this for the taller springs or can i just weld on different shock mounts. i have weight jacks but they are welded in the stock location.

Hammer
01-24-2011, 11:53 AM
of everything i have played with, i can tell you this, for me the worst set up i ever had with rr heavy spring was better than the best car i ever had with lr heavy spring, i believe it was my 3rd year racing i swapped rear springs and instantly went to being a front running car, i 13" 100# spring would bind way to early, my advice would be to play with a 16" 125#-150# and see how it works for you, im gonna play with a 16" lr for heat races this year, and thats a big 10-4 on the spring buckets.... i do not even run a bucket on the lr anymore, i have an adjustable clamp on mount for a the jack bolt so i can slide it up and down, i can go from an 11" spring to a 20"+ if i need to by loosening a clamp

What do you consider a front runner. not to be a jag off but i just looked at your stats at eriez and 4 or 5 top 10's is not a front running car imo. and i will have to ask around and see but i think most of the guys you're chasing are on regular spring setups(could be wrong but the fast ones i seen are on regular springs 71 for instant pitted next to me at an open show and changed a spring and wasn't a 20in) not picking on you bush never met you but know a couple of guys up north in erie and boy can some of them party (little guys i was hurting the next day)

stock car driver
01-24-2011, 01:11 PM
of everything i have played with, i can tell you this, for me the worst set up i ever had with rr heavy spring was better than the best car i ever had with lr heavy spring, i believe it was my 3rd year racing i swapped rear springs and instantly went to being a front running car, i 13" 100# spring would bind way to early, my advice would be to play with a 16" 125#-150# and see how it works for you, im gonna play with a 16" lr for heat races this year, and thats a big 10-4 on the spring buckets.... i do not even run a bucket on the lr anymore, i have an adjustable clamp on mount for a the jack bolt so i can slide it up and down, i can go from an 11" spring to a 20"+ if i need to by loosening a clamp

"Instantly went to being a front running car"

I fell off my chair laughing....

bushracing67
01-24-2011, 03:36 PM
i run a 13" on the rr, i was getting enough roll that an 11" was binding sometimes if the track was right, you should be able to run a 16" 125 with out a spring bucket, if you lr weighs 800# with a 11" 250 the spring would measure 7.8" a 16" 125 would measure 9.6"

redrooster
01-24-2011, 09:53 PM
do yall have a baseline setup for using 16 inch springs on a metric #3200 on 1/4 mile track. Lookin for good starting part, never ran 16's. you can"private message" if you hiding ur setup, I race in Tx.

bushracing67
01-24-2011, 10:53 PM
when i started with the 20" all i did was measured my ride height with driver ready to race, pulled out the old spring and put in the new one, reset my ride height to where it was before and went from there. i ended up dropping my rear split and cross down from there