pinto set up

[14flower]

car weights 2350 with 54 percent front weight and 46 percent of rear i dont know the cross i forgot what it was. around what front weights should i run? and is it worth the money to get afco rear leafs? or can u mes around stock ones to make them work good?

the car handles good but i have a problem to much weight being on the rf well it seems that way cuz no matter what i do the car always leans on the rf? and when going into the corner it rolls over a ton and when the track is wet all it does is pushes and it feels like u cant steer the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) thing then. the streeing wheel turns but it feels like the tires dont. front rates are 750 rf and 700 lf i think there 6inch springs and there 9 1/2 inchs tall with no buckets. with afco 5/5 shocks front and rear.

[steveshawjr]

need some more info on track size and banking

sounds like to much front weight causeing your bad push try to get 53% rear somehow 52% left and around 52% cross much more will make it tight

heres a good way i read in a artical some where to fighur out weights and this tip didnt make sense intill i tryed it .


go to the food store grab a cart than go to the pop iles garb 2 cases of pop put them in the front of your cart go around the iles and try to turn you will see with the wight on the front it tend to push ( just as your car dose) now center the pop cases up and ty it again you will see the carts is pritty nutral naw one more time with the cases of pop at the rear of the cart you will see the thing tends to turn verry fast the same thing hapens with out cars..




now we also need your full baceline setup to help you a bit more but i think its to much weight on the front of the car

[14flower]

what u mean by base line set up? oh and i forgot i run a lr adjustable shackle if that could help me set up my car or not

[steveshawjr]

your whole setup you start out with (base line) stagger, tire type , shocks, springs, ride hights , caster, camber all thes thing can help figure out what is the problem


i can say i think the biggest problem is weight to much on the front not letting the back come around

[14flower]

i run p215 dirtbozz all the way around. afco 50 50 shocks all the way around. 750 rf lf 650 stock rear leafs and the left rear leaf is the top main leaf with the bottom two leafs idk what the rates are but thats what most guys run around where i run. and the right rear is the same except it has one more leaf. 16psi right side and 14psi left side. spft compounds all the way around. 3off lf and 2off rf when dry lr 2off rr 4off when tacky 3off lr and rr 4off wet lr4 off rr 2off.

the lf is chamberd all the way out which for a pinto that ant much. the rf is chamberd in all the way and again for a pinto that ant much. the rear end in no stagger. with a adjustable lr shackel

[steveshawjr]

Ok so here we go

this is where i would start

lf
8psi tubed
12 without tube
350#

lr
8psi tubed
12 without tube
i would recomend a 200# rated leaf
2" lowering block if you can run them

rf
12psi tubed
14.5- 15 without tube
400#

rr
12psi tubed
14.5-15 without tube
175# leaf


i think with the combo of the heavey springs and lots of front weight is putting the car in a slide in the front running the softer front springs and cutting the weight out of the front will help alot to start with

stagger try 1" in the front and get at least 2" in the rear not having any rear stagger
wont help matters stager helps get thes things to turn

you realy got to try the diffrent offsets on a set of scales to see what its doing to the weight %

weight %
52%left
52.5%cross
53% rear

[14flower]

will do ill try to get my uncles again

[84Dave]

If the Rules permit, move the engine at least 6" rearward. That will reduce the front weight a considerable amount. If the Rules permit, modify the front suspension members to rid the steering of most 'bump' & Ackermann. If the Rules do not permit some chassis modifications, look @ the Rules at another track........ or take up fishing! And BTW..... for the life of me, I could never understand why many/most tracks disallow chassis mods for so-called 'entry level' classes. They may allow engine builds/mods that can cost $1500-$2000, but won't allow a team to spend $500 on chassis geometry/steering hardware that'll handle the improvement in engine power. It has never made sense to me. That's how racers learn chassis setup. And the cost for basic hardware/modifications to the chassis is, in the large % of cases, much cheaper than buying hardware to improve the engine. Bottom line? You aren't doing the racer any favors by allowing moderate-to-significant engine improvements, but severely limiting what the racer should be doing with basic chassis improvements. -Dave-

[tubetwister]

WOW, Holy Crapolla Dave, I cant believe what you posted, FINALLY someone who talks some sense!!
I am trying to tone down the engines in our Mini stock class at our track, but trying to let the guys have a chance to make a car handle better, and I am getting so much flak, how can I justify not allowing headers, but allowing some chassis mods and stuff????
It seems like nowdays the only thing people can think about is MORE motor, screw the chassis, sometimes I think I went back in time 40 years when racing was nothing more than 2 drag races every lap, followed by slam on the brakes and creep through the corner! Especially round the tater racers (ie:dirt tracks) Most pavement facilities now realize couple guys with big motors makes for BORING racing, and dwindleing car counts.
I even threatened to allow Crate 604 motors in our Mods this year, before finally going back to IMCA, and U should of heard the crying about that!! But yet, most pavement tracks now have crate motors in their Late Models, and the dirt Late Models have finally caught on also, especially back east. I saw some killer dirt Crate-Late model races this year in the Carolinas. All for $5200 right from Chevy!!! Pretty good ideas, not a killer motor, but some of the best, competitve door handle to door handle racing I have seen in years (both on the dirt and pavement, and yes I am active in both types)
Common sense like yours is far and few between these days.
Hell, you want my job running a little dirt track??? I'll give it you (pay is lousy though, oh ya, what pay!)
Kudos to you man, I cant believe I read it still!!!
Brian

[drtlvr]

Where is this dirt track you say nobody wants to work on their chassis? The same one 14flower says his buddy ran in the top 3 with a 2 cylinder? Not all dirt track mini stock guys care nothing about set up. Dave is referring to rule makers (not the racer) not allowing some to do anything to the chassis.

[steveshawjr]

now look what you started dave lmao :p

[84Dave]

Brian(tubetwister)....... a quick story! We had the same problem with the very professional Pro-4 4-cylinders running @ a 1/4-mile 'un-named' paved oval about (4) years ago. Constant Bitching/Griping/Howling (BGH) at each other & track Tech. I was a close associate with the Chief Tech guy. In order to make an attempt @ mitigating the situation, he made a very unpopular decision. One Saturday night, the Pro-4 Main ended @ about 10:45 pm. Just in time for the 11:00 pm cerfew. A quick Pro-4 meeting was called by Chief Tech, and ALL (18) teams who raced that evening were told to remove the head off ALL (18) engines that raced. ALL engine capacities, versus car weights required, were to be measured....... bore & stroke. Any team who refused to comply would be suspended for the remainder of the season (about 3 months). Car numbers were placed in a can, and the numbers drawn as to who would be first & who would be last for the engine capacity check. The last car checked loaded up & left the track @ 2:30 am in the morning! Of the (18) cars checked, (7) cars, ~40% of the field, were found to be illegal! They lost all points & purse $$$ for that night of racing. But the major impact of the whole deal? All of the BGH immediately came to a screeching halt! Imagine that! And everyone was aware of who the illegal cars belonged to. That relatively short 3.5-hour exercise, in one night, completely changed the attitude & complexion of Pro-4 racing in that section of the State. Mission Accomplished !! -Dave-

[tubetwister]

See Dave, we were starting to have the same problem, some of these guys wanting to take this class to where it doesnt belong. My theory, if you wanna spend that kinda of money, you need to sell your car, and move up a class or two.
I am the poor SOB that runs the backside of our little 1/4 mile dirt track (Track Steward, Tech guy, basic all around scape-goat, and I never wanted to be an official, I made a good career outta hasseling the NASCAR an old ASA officials!) We have three classes of cars, and the only one that has consistent car counts were our Mods, and they have not been IMCA for many years, (it was back in the early 90's, with good car counts) Of course the promoter back then listened to the racers, dropped IMCA, and pretty much allowed anything for motors, within two years, down to 8 regular cars. We now have it back to around 15 cars a night (we are located in the remote corner of NE California). best part was, the kid who won our track champ (2nd time in three years) in a homebuilt car, with a homebuilt 383 flat-tappet motor, and on a budget. I loved watching him race, really dialed in to his car, and he is a graduate of our Mini class!
I have made it clear what my intentions are with our rules 4 the 3 classes, Minis are our entry level class, with a Street Stock type (weight jacks are legal, tubeular uppers, move your shocks, etc.) but 2 bbl, cast iron in/out as our mid-level class, and then the IMCA mods. Some of the Minis who occasionly tow up to our track are really cryin in their cold suds, and claiming I am trying to keep them out. Oh well, cant please everyone, nor do I care too! The biggest change to our Mini class, was I killed headers, now must run cast iron exhaust. Cleaned up some other rules. Many changes to our old pure stock class (chassis impovements, my theory, once U install weight jacks, expense is over, put a ratchet on em 4 free and try to understand how the next class up, the Mods, operate), and 99% of these guys are happy as hell to get the rules changed to allow MORE chassis mods, and one beadlock!.
Ya, this is the track where some of these guys have made some pretty wild claims, even spread nasty rumors on this site. We have some pretty good races, no promoter (ran by our Fairgrounds manager and myself, with a few volunteers) and had some killer races in our Mods this year.
I know some of the Mini stuff was getting way outta hand ( I aint stupid, and been a very active racer/crewchief all my life, I know whatis out there for these 4 cyl. motors, and it doesnt belong in an entry level class)
I appreciate your coments U made, Right on the spot!!
Brian

[14flower]

brain quick question about the 2 day show. can we have the ex. going through the fire wall if its still a stock manifold? cuz the only ex. manifold i have will only allow me to run it through the car. and plus that way i wouldnt have to move where my muffler is just for 2 days of racing plus my car is to low to have the ex. under the car.