Making modified racing more affordable in central ky

[HEAVY DUTY]

If you are interested in making open wheel modified racing more affordable in the central ky area be at the Ky Racers Swap Meet on saturday January 22 for a discussion about how to help the modifieds grow again in this area. Discussion will be around 3 PM.

[HEAVY DUTY]

bump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HEAVY DUTY]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

[HEAVY DUTY]

something needs to happen

[HEAVY DUTY]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HEAVY DUTY]

We had really positive feed back at our meeting.Probably 90% in agreement to go with the g 60 american racer KK-704 or the Hoosier Imca tire to try and control costs and take some of the big horsepower advantage away. Now we need to talk to the promoters and tell them if you agree or disagree and try to figure out how and when to implement these cost saving steps.Thanks to all who was in attendance.

[2graphic]

Wasnt able to make it, thanks Donnie for trying to save our sport, what if any other items were discussed?

[ward66racing]

I personally dont have a solution but i do know that when everyone went to the hard tire compound only rules before people with the big money just started soaking their tires and gained a unfair advantage. There was no policing of the tires and they got away with it. I fear that all it will do is cause the same thing to happen with no tracks that will actually spend the time to tech the tires.

[2graphic]

Will the soaked tires still durometer what there supposed to?

[ward66racing]

Tire softeners will fail a durometer but thats not what is being used. I saw very little puching of tires going on when everyone knew it was happening anyway. Most said it took to long to tech them. If the tracks dont police it very stringently it will just happen all over again.

[75fireman]

Tires will not fix the problem. Make everyone run a 7,500 chip in msd box check top 5 after the race the chip kills BIG motors. alot of guys are turning 8,000 or more

[sms]

Myself i would like to see the g60 / kk704 tire rule put in place. That would save money on the tire bill and would also allow the racer that cant afford a big motor to be able to compete.

[HEAVY DUTY]

I dont think the chip rule is a bad rule, but a good electronics guy ( Davis technoligies,Techwest, Etc.) can redo the chips or we can change the stickers on the chip.The IMCA guys are getting rid of thier old stuuf and building new engines with bigger strokes now, and are spending more money because of the new rule.They already had a flat tappet cam rule in place that should have kept the RPM somewhat in check.I also know by using a MSD checker that chips vary 100 or 150 RPM from what they are marked ( usually less)

[HEAVY DUTY]

The tire rule is not only about the rubber compound, but also the sidewall and tread construction. The construction of the tire helps to unhook the the car even if the guys are doping the tires. Ward 66 is right, if the tracks dont check the tires to keep us honest, we will use whatever we can to get an advantage, but we cant continue down the same path or we wont have anybody to race against or any place to race. This applies to all classes, not just modifieds.Sanctioning bodies like UMP could care less about making sensible rules until they are forced to because they dont have any cars or tracks left, and then it is too late. Once the old tracks are gone,they arent going to be replaced because they cost too much to build new to ever make a profit.

[75fireman]

I like the tire rule but if you run AMS series or larger races you will have to buy alot of tires to race. When AMS races around here what are the locals going to do about the hard tires.A's and D's will kill them hard tires. We are running AMS in 2011, And race local going to have to buy alot of tires. There is no good answer for everybody

[HEAVY DUTY]

The tire deal at the big races is something we have to work out, It would be better for the local tracks to have more cars every week than worry about the traveling series once or twice a year at their track. Maybe AMS will do like USMTS which is the most successful traveling mod series, and change their tire rule eventually and grow instead of doing like UMP and shrinking. I intend to run some AMS races but cannot run them all because of the traveling.I know that to be competitive I will have to have new tires to run the AMS and will be more able to afford them if I dont have to buy as many to run weekly shows.
Lets keep this discussion going and get some other racers involved. If we all put our heads together we should be able to make some sensible changes.

[hammond]

Donnie, The Hoosier G60 tire I think would be better, let the tires be siped but DO NOT GROOVE the tire. IMCA told me that they are looking to go solid pull bar by 12 or maybe even mid season 11 . I think as the chip we have gone to 7800 chip and I would like to see that before the main you put all chips in a bag and have the drivers draw a chip so you do knot know whos you got and THE TRACK NEED TO TEST THEM NIGHTY!!. And for cost we should look at the shock deal. Maybe run wb shocks ? But we can not have $300-$400 per shocks on mods.

[MOD44x]

Lets not forget traction control, they will just sink their money into that as well as tire prep. I have yet to see anyone checked for traction control. I don't think tracks will put the extra effort in to police it.

I wouldn't mind the hard tires if I felt like it/we would be properly teched.

[ckyracer00]

I think the drawing chips before the main is a great idea, as far as traction control I remember Harold Hargrove saying at a drivers meeting a few years ago he would have an extra MSD box and he could swap for yours at anytime through out the night thought that was a good idea, we only run there 1 time so do know if it ever happened.

[Banditracecars]

I think the tire deal would be good for local tracks. The only probelm is, you can't just have this going in one area (ex. richmond, lake cumberland, ponderosa) because there are not enough cars in this area to support it. UMP does need to make some needed changes but because they were started around the grassroots of local racing they are still supported by more than 3000 members. That is what makes them stand so strong, they have enough racers over a large area to support their structure!

I do agree with Donnie, we need to come up with something to save our sport!

[modmadman]

Here we go again....it was just a few years ago that the local tracks were gonna save all the local racers money by installing a hard tire rule on the modifieds...DIDNT YOU LEARN ANYTHING FROM THAT AT ALL...It costs us more money now than it did before...if you wanna run the top 10 you better at least have new rear tires every week because all us racers know when the edges are gone the tires are done...You wanna save racers money forget about the tires and worry about where the real money is spent....THE ENGINE...put us all on 604 crate engines AND TECH THEM!!!

[HEAVY DUTY]

My hard tires always held the edges better than my soft tires. They do slow down from heat cycles, Hoosiers are worse than american racers about slowing down.The american racer open comp hard compound stays about the same until it is wore out, but they cut down easier because of the thinner tread and sidewall construction. The G60 is made by Hoosier and American Racer and is the same tread and construction. The crate motors will only work if they have enough power to win without cheating them up.The racetracks do not have the ability, resources, or desire to tech them and keep them legal. Crate motors would cause everyone to have to spend 6000 dollars on a new one or find a used one that may or may not still be legal, which would drive them to another class to use what they already have.The traction control is a valid issue, we are already running against it and that will never change until the tracks and sanctioning bodies start teching it.

[HEAVY DUTY]

What is happening right now is some racers are sitting at home until there is a big show that pays more money because there is no way they can afford to race at a regular show for what the tracks can afford to pay.That will only work for awhile untill the local tracks have to shut down from lack of cars and attendence.Then the series wont have anyplace to race either.The AMS series had to travel all over the place last year to find enough tracks to fill their schedule.I like the AMS and plan to race with them as much as I can,but they only run 1 or 2 nights a year at each track and the track has to worry about what is best for the other 18 or 20 nights they are open.Most of the AMS front runners are buying 2 or more tires at each race anyway, why cant they buy 2 tires to run on the rear at the tracks they are going to. THE G60 Hoosier and American Racer is 20 dollars a tire cheaper than the UMP tire and last 2 to 3 times longer.Less tires to buy, less money to buy the tire, and less motor to be competitive.That is a win win situation for everybody but UMP because UMP gets at least 10 dollars per hoosier EMOD tire whether they are used in UMP or not.That tire money is the reason that UMP is not going to do anything to keep the racers from buying as many tires, and Hoosier sure isnt interested in changing the rules to sell less tires.If you dont think something needs done, just look at the classifieds and see how many racers are selling out completly.

[9modified]

I would love to see this tire change. Gas is going to be over 4.00 a gal this summer and by saving on tires helps me to put more in my tank to get to the track. If we run on the G60 there will be less traction which will help equipment last longer, by not hooking up as hard your engine wear will be a great deal less over a season. You will also use less racing fuel every night of racing. Race fuel 110,112, and 114 is not cheap!! If I can save a couple of gallons a night that adds up. I think this rule should have been put into place a long time ago. I'm Glad Brandon Hardgrove and Joey Tacatt are concerned with racer costs- this says alot about the two guys as promoters.

[HEAVY DUTY]

Lets keep this discussion going.

[dirtmaze3]

Let them run Humpers and sideboards ! Would save on Shocks and Horsepower !

[mudeater18]

I'm all for hard tires only. Even if everything else was equal (speed, wear, price, etc.) it saves us from having to have both compounds mounted. Having fewer wheels saves $$$ as well as the time saved by not switching between races, scaling the car on different sets, grinding extra sets, and cleaning tires that were only on the car for hot laps and maybe a heat race. Less money and less work gets my vote every time.

[carbon fiber]

Its my uderstanding the tires will be 95.00 to the racer.hoosier has 1 and aracer has a g60 that price is needed.All things can be changed- msd boxes-tire softner can be used on any compund-chips can be bypassed-crate engines can e cheated,but the tire construction cannot.We have to put trust in racetracks and series to ck for softner.These tires will result in cheaper engines.Why spend more to race for the same money?.If we try to out spend each other we all will just end up broke.Thanks for trying to help heavy duty mod racing needs cheap tires and engines.

[9modified]

Well said Carbon Fiber!!! I agree with you.

[mudball]

I also agree with tracks running the hard tire rule. Hopefully it would cut cost ,let more racers race and provide closer competition for the fans. The tracks would have to make the time and effort to tech them to keep them legit.

[HEAVY DUTY]

Thanks to everyone who has replied or will reply, this thread is getting a lot of attention by looking at the number of views.I have had guys call my shop from other areas that are multiple feature winners with 750 horse motors that say they wish something like this would be done in their area because it cost them to much to race their motors, but they feel they need to have them to be competitive on the bigger race tracks.When you race on heavy hammerdown race tracks with long straightaways, the only thing that takes the big motor advantage away is tires. These G60 tires are not only a hard compound but also have a stiffer sidewall and narrower tread than the UMP or open tire.You only need as much horsepower as it takes to spin the wheels, A harder stiffer tire is easier to spin and therefore takes less power to do so, and any extra power you have is just wasted money.

[carbon fiber]

i dont blame them for wanting cheaper engines,the racetracks really need to help with this its the only way to get new commers into this sport,and keep every1 else from going bankrupt.Its forcasting there own future.like i said why spend more to race for the same money.put some driving back into these cars.not horsepower!!!

[9modified]

It is the future of our sport. The modified was designed for the average working man, but yet we have 20,000.00 engines and new tires every 2 races. The racers and sanctioning body's have let this get out of hand, we need to get this tire rule going so there will be modifieds on the tracks in the next 2 years. We are in Bad economic times we need this. I know it's hard to change, but we have to start somewhere to save our sport. No doubt it will take time but it needs to be done. I believe this would help excell AMS series if they had this tire.

[HEAVY DUTY]

I know when I first started racing modifieds in 1988 we were running the G60 tire on leaf springs. I had about 3000 dollars in a complete car (homebuilt and engine parts that were blown up left overs) and went to florida for speedweeks and led a lot of laps, was very competitive.Those days are over now but my point is we were racing for 300 or 400 to win with a 3000 dollar car. Now we are racing for 500 or 600 and have 25000 to 40000 dollar cars because the sanctioning bodies havent kept a tight grip on the rules.I know that not everyone has 40000 in their car but quite a few do, That is about the going rate for a name brand chassis and engine combination, race ready.UMP changed the tire rule in 1992 because they could get more money out of hoosier than they could out of McCreary Tire ( american racer now) and our engine costs and tire bills double or maybe tripled at that time.Now our suspensions, shock packages and other technologies have advanced to the point that we have the capability to use 750 hp at some racetracks (not all) and that is what has made the modifieds virtually unaffordable for the average person. By limiting traction with the tire ( not only hardness but also sidewall and tread construction) we can limit the amount of horsepower it takes to be competitive. I had one popular UMP engine builder tell me that he would just as soon build 500 HP motors than 700 HP engines because he didnt have to buy as expensive of parts to make them live and could build them way cheaper and have a bigger customer base.Another one told me that it cost $10000 more to build an 18 degree motor than a 23 degree but that it added 100 HP to the same bottom end combination. We dont need that in modified racing.

[carbon fiber]

All race tracks need to look close at this tire and engine problem,or they wont have to make a rule before long.There wont be any left,like i said before why spend more to race for the same money.Thanks heavy duty for trying to help ever1. i hope some track owners get on here and try to help.

[mudeater18]

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[sms]

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