First Year 602 Crate Motor

[dluna11w]

I will be running a 602 Crate on gas for the first time this season in a IMCA Northern Type Modified (3 link rear suspension). Racing on a big 1/4 mile banked track. I'm not sure if I should post here, Open Wheel Modified Tech, or Powertrain Tech, but I will start here. I have not purchased ANYTHING yet, so I need it all. Can someone help me choose the following:

Carb (can be ANY 4barrel with billet baseplate and metering blocks)
Spacer (either Moroso #64940 or a 2″ open plastic spacer)
Fuel Pump
Regulator
Distributor
Headers
Spark Plugs

I know answers could be all over the map here, I'm just looking for some input. The local dealer is REALLY trying to push the following package based off Dyno time and local winners:
$1,100 TRC Carb out of Pennsylvania (Total Racing Components)
$225 Blackstone 15lb fuel pump (said it helps off corner)
$110 Quickfuel Regulator preset at 7.5 psi - 1 input and 2 outputs directly to bowls (I thought a bypass line back to the tank would be needed with a 15lb pump, but they said not to use one)
Is the DUI Crate Distributor any better than the regular DUI Distributor?

I'll have more questions later but that is all for now. If you would rather email me your thoughts directly I can be reached at don@troutjig.com

[citiracer]

Well this is all just my opinion after running last year with a 602 in a late model and out running a lot of supers on a 1/4 mile track.
Use the tallest spacer you can. We used a 2" HVH super sucker but use the tallest thing and whatever your rules allow.
Carb will get you some HP but it's way more money/HP than what it's worth in my opinion. The motor will run great with a regular Holley 650 (4777). You'll want to jet it out a little bigger like 69 in front and 73 in rear. We ran that last year and might lean it a little for this season.
I don’t see how a big fuel pump is going to help you if you’re using a regulator anyway. We ran a 6-9 PSI Carter pump with no regulator and no problems at all keeping fuel pressure. But if you are going to run a regulator, 7.5 is a good place to keep it. Much more PSI than that is going to blow the needles open.
Shoenfeld makes crate headers that won’t require a second mortgage. You can run collector extensions to get some extra power but I don’t have all the details on that.
The HEI that comes with the 602 is more than enough spark for that motor.
We ran AC Delco RapidFire 8s last season and only had problems with them fouling once when we had a blown power valve.
We tried to keep it simple per recommendations from some people who had previous success with 602s and I can’t complain. I’d rather spend my money on things getting it to turn better than getting it to spin the tires better but that’s just my opinion. If you’re looking for horsepower there are plenty of areas to spend your money to pick up a few HP for a bunch of $$$. Take that same $1000 and spend it on your shock program and I think you’ll be happier :-)

[RacerX10]

citiracer :

nice to see some common sense advice :)

how happy are you with your 602 vs 604's that you compete against ?

did you have any trouble getting your %'s where you want them ?

[citiracer]

I was worried about the weight also. Especially since I am only 165 soaking wet. But we were able to get 54% with 60 pounds of lead and 15 gallons of fuel. We're switching fuel cells this year and this new one carries the fuel a little more forward so we'll see how it works out.
As far as stacking up to the 604...we run mostly on a 1/4 mile track that gets real slick. Early on, we get pulled just a little coming off the corner but as the track gets slicker it actually seems like we are better than most down low coming off the corner.
About a third of the open motors at our track are driven by guys that think they need that horsepower. You know where I'm going with this.

[RacerX10]

150# driver here :)

What did your total weight come out to ? Nesmith allows down to 2200 for a 602 motor.

[citiracer]

We get the same weight break for the 602. 2200. We run at 2250. I am not at all interested in trying to dance around the weight limit. I'd rather be a LITTLE heavy in case of a bunch of cautions. 5 gallons of fuel is over 30 pounds.
At 400 HP, 50 pounds is only gaining you about 2% in weight/HP ratio.

[RacerX10]

At 400 HP, 50 pounds is only gaining you about 2% in weight/HP ratio.

That's true, but lower weight is a bigger issue on corner entry and thru the middle than it is with acceleration off the corner.

[dluna11w]

Any comments?

[Chris Steele]

citiracer hit the nail on the head! Also want to add that the engine will make more HP and last longer if you use Joe Gibbs Racing Oil. Our last 602 had right at 2000 laps on it and when Hendren rebuilt it, the bearings looked god enough to re-use, the nose of the cam had NO wear and the cylinder walls had no lip and were still well within tolerance. Don't want this to sound like a sales pitch because I am a Gibbs dealer...just ask people on here like citiracer and Brad Hibbard.

[dluna11w]

My plan for oil is Wix Racing filter. I have Brad Penn break in oil left over from my spec motor, so I plan to use that to break the motor in and run the motor during first practice. After that, I will switch to Joe Gibbs XP1. 2 nights, filter w/ fresh quart, 2 nights, filter w/ fresh quart, 2 nights, dump and repeat. Chris, how much does the XP1 cost through you?

[dluna11w]

I've decided on a carb and fuel pump setup.

I'm still debating the header choice. I've spoken to Schoenfield and Beyea and I can't decide if the Beyea's are worth the extra money. Schoenfield said I could buy the 1185s and put a 90 extension on the left and a straight extension on the right to gain torque. There is also a guy on dirtdrivers.com that sells a extension setup for around $200 that would fit the Schoenfields. OR, I can just get the Beyea's and call it a day.

[00BusDriver]

Go with the Beyea's....you won't be sorry!

[Egoracing]

That's true, but lower weight is a bigger issue on corner entry and thru the middle than it is with acceleration off the corner.

Yes BUT a car with proper ratios will KILL a car that is 300 lbs lighter that can't get the numbers that are needed!

[stock car driver]

I've decided on a carb and fuel pump setup.

I'm still debating the header choice. I've spoken to Schoenfield and Beyea and I can't decide if the Beyea's are worth the extra money. Schoenfield said I could buy the 1185s and put a 90 extension on the left and a straight extension on the right to gain torque. There is also a guy on dirtdrivers.com that sells a extension setup for around $200 that would fit the Schoenfields. OR, I can just get the Beyea's and call it a day.

That guys a snake oils salesman on dirt drivers. Below pond scum. And yes Ive met him in person and tried to deal with him by having him build me a motor.. it didnt work out.

[dluna11w]

So if I don't buy his extension setup, what do you suggest? I can get the Schoenfields with some extensions for around $300. The beyea's are in the $600 range. Has anyone tried both types? I know in IMCA they can't run the step header, but we can in our class. Most racers that I have talked to suggest a 1 5/8 step to 1 3/4 with a 3" collector.

[mqdirtracer57]

I have tried both on my late model. The Beyea headers seem to give my engine more low end torque over the Schoenfield headers. But looking through recent mailers I recieved Schoenfield has a new design crate header for late models. It's possible that they offer a new design for modifieds as well. The new Schoenfield has longer primary tubes before entering the collector.

[hsracer]

If your rules allow you to run racing fuel use vp ms109 or vp98. My friend blew up a 602 running on pump gas because you dont know if your getting 93 octane at the pumps. It will run cooler and motor will last longer on vp fuels.

[RacerX10]

My friend blew up a 602 running on pump gas because you dont know if your getting 93 octane at the pumps.

How did your friend decide it was bad fuel ?

[Chris Steele]

The bad thing about today's pump gas is the amount of ethonol varies from store to store and tanker load to tanker load. Too much ethonol and your in trouble!

[hsracer]

The jugs of fuel that we filled up at the pumps,we took some out of the jugs and sent them to get tested and the octane wasnt 93. There was high levels of ethonol too. We switched to vp fuels and this year we will have 3 years on the motor and still runs top 5 every night.

[stock car driver]

So if I don't buy his extension setup, what do you suggest? I can get the Schoenfields with some extensions for around $300. The beyea's are in the $600 range. Has anyone tried both types? I know in IMCA they can't run the step header, but we can in our class. Most racers that I have talked to suggest a 1 5/8 step to 1 3/4 with a 3" collector.

I dont know ask Chris Steele on here would be my suggestion.

I know hendren said beyeas all the way. I personally would go with them.

[dynoman14]

Just out of curiosity how are you guys getting your fuel tested for octane level?

[what the he##]

on the header issue the schoenfeilds are just as good if not better than the beyas we have run both on our car and the only reason we have beyas on now is bc they come with mufflers which weve had to have at a few tracks the schoenfields put out better numbers with the extentions and are alot cheaper to put the money else where like in fuel and tires

now on the fuel issue we have run sunoco for 4 years and its been great but at the same time this is on a 604

[rubbinsracin]

we run the schoenfelds on our LM. probably just bad luck but we had 2 sets of beyas that broke right at the block flange. so we dug the old schoenfelds out of the garage that we had ran for 3 years before and have had no problems. we have a guy that we saw this your at practice that ran the long extensions on both left and right on his 602 sportmod. motor sounded like it really like it until he broke an axel.