Empire Sport Trucks

[empiretrucks]

The Empire Sport Truck Series has been put together in New York and Pennsylvania. This class is for stock 4-cylinder pickups. With the current front wheel drive class getting a little agravating to many drivers because of the lack of "driveablity" of these cars, and the lack of repairability, these full frame trucks are becoming quite popular at the tracks currently sanctioned. It is expected by the end of the 2011 season, there will be more trucks than front wheel drive cars. There is a tour being put together and a sanctioning body has been assembled for any track that would consider running these trucks on their weekly schedule. This works similar to IMCA, with a regional point system taking any drivers top 20 finishes from any sanctioned race and will put them into a separate point fund being put together. Right now we are willing so sanction any track in the USA or Canada. The rules can be found at www.empiresporttrucks.com . Any tracks or drivers interested can contact me via the information on the website. Thanks for your time, and feel free to ask me any questions you have regarding this class. Thanks in advance!

[Racedad]

Congrads on the new sanction!
If you are willing to take advice from someone who has been racing these little trucks for years,the guys building the S10s will have durability issues with the 2.2 and 2.5 GM powerplants and you should allow them to run Ford power.Also the STOCK engine rule is problematic,specify a cam lift rule and maybe a C/R rule. Too hard to tech for a "stock" cam and the reward for cheating is too big to resist.

[empiretrucks]

I am willing to take advice from anyone who has the knowledge to offer an opinion. We thought about allowing guys to swap motors around, but when we had our rules meeting, a number of drivers stated that they thought if we allowed that, the class would turn into another cookie cutter class. For instance, if the S-10's witha 2300 ford turned out to be the dominant setup, then everyone would have to have that setup, or not be competitive. We also worked with a track that has been running this class for ten years, and basically, they have tried every different set of rules imaginable, and they one they are currently using has turned out to be the most fair, and create the most even competition across the board. They stated that the s-10's had the handling advantage, but the Rangers had the power advantage, and the toyotas were somewhere in between, but everything seemed to be about even.

[return to dirt]

sounds like it could be a good class. i agree with you on keeping engine and truck the same. compression and vacuum rules are useless. a valve lift rule could work along with say, a no adjustable cam gears/sprockets rule. stuff that is easy to tech. a couple of things on your rules. if i'm reading them right it only requires 2 driver door bars. you need a min of 3 or even 4 bars. plating would also be good. why are 4 wheel brakes required when you can have a r/front shut off? my choice would be a nissan hardbody with a z24. good luck with your series.

olin

[empiretrucks]

Thanks for pointing that out. Looks like the drivers side door bar rule somehow get cut out. The rule that is stated says 2 right side, it should say minimum 3 drivers door bars. I'll get that corrected asap.

Doesn't the Nissan you speak of have a 12 valve engine?

[dannyracer6]

I totallyagree with racedad. and I disagree that the totally stock truck in a traveling series will not make it. several have tried that and maybe in a local track it could work. There are a lot of so c alled "stock" classes and fans are not going to take to a traveling series of that kind of class. There are several simi stock classes that have great traveling programs. Check out the Northwestpro4 truck class out of Wa. State and ID. They have had great success with the mix and match motors especially in the s10 chassis. who cares if the trucks run different motors, If you hold to that no mix rule, you will end up with an all ford toy or nissan class. because the 2.2 and 2.5 chev motors are just not competitive because they will not stay together. We have built several S10 ford hybreds and they are easy and not expensive.
Solid heads, adj. gears, headers and front wt jacks and a cam lift rule, is a good starting place
If you want you can rule out roller cams and alum. heads and do a good job of tech, and it will be a good fast fan pleasing class. Do it right and you will succeed.

[empiretrucks]

Well, we put our rules package together using rules from a few fairly local tracks that do run the trucks. A couple of these tracks have very successful truck classes, and they were interested in sanctioning, and through their ten years of running the class, these are the rules that they have determined to draw the most drivers in. They stated that they would be very interested in sanctioning as long as their drivers didn't have to make many changes. They tried letting drivers mix and match engines, but it just made the class shrink. Guys want to know that they will be able to buy a truck, and run the engine that came in it. That way they don't have to go find an s-10, and then track down a ford engine and transmission. I have spoken with several drivers from both the ford and chevy line, and none of them have said that the s-10's have had issues with dependability. Our rules actually did open up their rule a little. This track's rules state they must use and engine that matches that make, model, and YEAR for that particular truck. We are allowing them to switch the years around, so guys can drop a duke in a newer s-10 if they would like.

Another reason we have put this class together and want to keep it stock is because we want to keep the costs in check, so as many drivers can afford it as possible. Right now, in this area of upstate NY, there is the FWD 4-cylinder class, which the cars sell consistantly for around $1000-$1200. The next step up is the street stock class. These cars sell for $10,000+. We want to make it feasible for the FWD guys to move up to a rear wheel drive class, and have a chance to run for a decent amount of cash, without much investment. Our tour champion is going to recieve a minimum of $1,000 cash, and right now around $300 worth of contingency prizes. The regional champion is looking to recieve about the same amount, and track champions, depending on car count are looking roughly $500. All of this with a truck that could be built for under $1500 easily. I know this because I built one, and have less than $600 in it total, including buying it. This is the draw of the class. If it was legal to drop in a 2300 ford, then that cost would be raised a minimum of $6-700. This would be a big turn off to many of our drivers.

I don't want to sound like I am dismissing everyone's ideas, I am taking notes, but this class is new to this specific area, with no tracks within 3 hours of where I am from running them. We want to build this class, which is going to take time. Maybe after we start getting full fields, we will consider opening the rules up a little, but until then, we are going to stick to stock, inexpensive rules.

Thank you everyone for the responses!

[return to dirt]

around here before they started letting the trucks have more modifications the s-10 and even the old LUV would do ok. no major engine problems. when they opened it up and allowed any cam, intake, conversion to solids, adjustable cam gears then that is when problems happened. guys were also blowing up fords, toyotas and nissans. guys then had to buy better parts to make the engines live. truck counts started to drop because guys wouldn't or couldn't afford to be competitive. the fords don't have the torque of the nissans and toyotas so a ford(ranger or courier) hasn't won a championship in 10 years or so here. keep them close to stock and your class will grow. we allowed the dodge/mitsu trucks run their 2.6 engines even with the jet valve although most eleminated them. the truck class became the most popular class here because of the close racing and the banging that will happen. they became more popular then the sprints and started running last in the program.

the nissan z24 is a sohc 8 valve engine used from about 85-94. the ka24 was a 12valve and then a 16 valve engine.

olin

[empiretrucks]

Just out of curiosity, how did the ram 50/ mitzu/ mazda b-series trucks do?

[dannyracer6]

Empire Trucks,
great response and even better explanation for your stuff. I certainly understand that trying a new thing is hard and you need to get folks on board as easy as you can. I have quite a bit of respect for both racedad and return to dirt, so I have no disagreement with them. There is a new truck class out here on the left coast, in Hanford that is getting going that is using some of the stuff I mentioned. I had a little bit to do with the first set of rules that they looked at before they set up the class. It is a mix and match and some modifications. Will be interested to see how it flys. Good luck with your new class and I do hope it works. Looks like from your posts, that you have a good start....Stay intouch
Dan

[Headhunter]

We ran the GM 2.5's And they hold up if you dont try to spin them over 6300- 6500 rpm. My friend also ran a 2.6 Mitsubishi Dodge and that motor was rean good. Granted we were never a stock class and rods, cams, intake exhasust etc. was allowed.

[return to dirt]

my son in law ran a dodge 2.6. basic stock rebuild with a reground cam and he did ok until they opened up the rules so he's down on power some now but i think it could be made to run up front. we let the mazdas and couriers run the ford 2.3-2.5. we had a guy this year that ran a mazda 2.0 or 2.2 but it was down on power compared to the rest but it was fairly stock.
danny, how ya doing. i thought you went to idaho. you doing any racing up there?

olin

[empiretrucks]

As another update, our 2nd track just signed for sanction, there are two more that are going through the paperwork now. We are open to sanctioning any track in the country, so if you know of a track that this class would be good for, or a track with an existing truck class that needs a uniform set of rules, and more prize money for its drivers, let us know. Thanks! And also, thank you for all of the feedback everyone, it is truely appreciated!

Brandon

[steelhorse]

Hey folks ,new to the forum but not new to racing ! Had a great talk with Brandon at our track (Bethel) and was delighted to share the same ideas about the series ! I have been working on the track to get a class that the four cyl drivers could advance to without going to the street stock div ,which we did with our driver after winning the 4cyl sr div. in 2009 . We moved him to the streets for 2010 and put him right into the Pro-stocks for 2011 and with 5 feature wins and 2nd in points for 2011 and rookie of the yr We wanna scale back and run for the fun of it !! And the Trucks are the way to go ! Our track is a 1/4mi. blacktop with a brand new surface this season and we need the Empire Sport Trucks there for the 2012 season ! I have been building race cars for 33yrs and will way in with my ideas and I do listen to everyones ideas and opinions cause you never know when a great idea may come up !!! We would like to build a couple of S-10s and any ideas to make them competitive would be appreciated ! Thanks ! Gary O'Donnell
STEEL HORSE FABRICATIONS and RACING
Grahamsville,NY

[Headhunter]

You should really have put the 2X3 kick outs to the rocker panels. That keeps other cars from getting in under the cage and gives a good solid place to mount them.

For motors a compression rule (not cranking compression) displacement , and cam lift. are good starts. Invest in the tools to tech the motors or check them at a track you know has them. With just stock as a rule you will have cheaters everyplace.

Contact me through the PM if you want to go into more detail. I have been involved with mini trucks for over 10 years.

[supertruck]

Check out the supertruck rules at Langley Speedway in Hampton, Va. We have Chevy's, Toyotas, Fords, and Dodges running. Until this year we had a couple of bad Mazdas, too. Division is competitive and we average 14 trucks per race.

[Headhunter]

We have even managed to keep the S-10 and Ranger competitive with V-8's in them. We allow for either a race prepped 4 or a almost stock V-8 and even allow the 602 crate in our division. With weight and carb rules they are all competative to each other.

[empiretrucks]

Here is an update, as we have concluded our inaugural season. We had what I would called a successful first year. Although our truck counts were a little lower than we had hoped, it was expected, as it was our first year. The tour ended up running 8 races at 5 different tracks. We originally had a ten race tour scheduled, but one of our tracks took the brunt of a flood, and its season ended early, losing both of our tour races there. Two tracks were 3/8 mile dirt, one was quarter mile dirt, one was 1/4 mile asphalt, and one was 1/2 mile concrete. In 8 races, we had 5 different winners. One driver picked up wins on both surfaces. Ten different drivers competed in tour races. Overall, we sanctioned 47 total events, with 13 different winners. Right now, I believe our field will more than double in size over the off-season. We are in talks right now with a couple more tracks about sanctioning in 2012, which should further increase the size of our field.

As far as next season in concerned, we like our rules package as it is, although we will be a little more specific on some of the rules. We plan on adding more tour races at more venues. We are also going to try to increase our "regional" point fund. The regional "Challenge" is going to become the "EST National Challenge". We are going to put the challenge out there for drivers from all over the country to run for national points. See "Empire Sport Truck National Challenge" thread about this. Thanks for the feedback, and continue to give more!

Brandon