Pro-Shock question

[hoofhearted]

I have an 08 GRT with the regular double adjustment pro shocks on it, thinking about switching to the the new "PGAC" Pro gas shock. Was wondering if anyone has tried these and what compression and rebound would work best on this car. Track is 3/8 mile and usually dry slick. Thanks for any info

[F22 RAPTOR]

I have an 08 GRT with the regular double adjustment pro shocks on it, thinking about switching to the the new "PGAC" Pro gas shock. Was wondering if anyone has tried these and what compression and rebound would work best on this car. Track is 3/8 mile and usually dry slick. Thanks for any info

Unless your experiencing fade problems you won't be gaining any advantage, just an expense. What you have now, is a good shock in my view. Save your money and go to a seminar on shock tuning. :cool:

[shockman]

Very wise words. JMO............Shockman

[ENVY Suspension]

GET SOME SHOCKS!

Their new gas base valve stuff may be ok, but look around you, look and see what wins most bigger races, Ohlins, Integras, Afco Silver Series and JRI shocks. Like Shockman said, dont waste your money.

Kirk Loudy
ENVY Suspension
www.envysuspension.com

[walt stanley]

As alot of yall know I worked at PRO for about 22yrs. I will try to dispell several myths about shocks! The brand name of the shocks doesnt win these races, the best racers do. Moyer, Bloomquist, Mark Richards,etc. have taken the time and considerable effort to educate themselves on when and why to make valving changes for the changing track conditions. Twin tube compared to monotube: twintube will not fade anymore than a monotube, fade is caused by fluid temp (viscosity change) the amount of bleed within the shock, normally the softer the shock the more fade, dont worry about it. Monotube shocks require more maintence: Somewhat true, the disc inside especially the thinner ones will bend under abuse. You will need a quality dyno to confirm this(very low speeds). If you race on a very smooth race track dont worry about it. Adjustable shocks: Great marketing! Again educate yourself, if your guessing you dont need them. Be honest with yourself, they will add a lot to your budget, buy more tires for a better investment! Trust your chassis builder for your baseline package, remember he wants you to run well. Find a shock company or builder that you trust and maybe more important that you can communicate with! In closing educate your self and keep it as simple as possible!

[H&H Racing Equipment]

Hello Walt ya old dog! How's retirement? Give me a call sometime...

[F22 RAPTOR]

GET SOME SHOCKS!

Their new gas base valve stuff may be ok, but look around you, look and see what wins most bigger races, Ohlins, Integras, Afco Silver Series and JRI shocks. Like Shockman said, dont waste your money.

Kirk Loudy
ENVY Suspension
www.envysuspension.com

Sounds like a sales pitch.

[ENVY Suspension]

Not being a salesman F14 Flathead Briggs! Its not a matter of selling, its a matter of this. The tires have changed, setups have changed. When the tire companies make changes to the tires, then we as shock guys have to adjust what we do to the shocks to accommodate what they are wanting. As time goes on, things change, such as technology. In the better shocks of TODAYS RACING, you cant get there with the twin tube stuff for one, secondly, we are asking the car to do certain things that most of the time require some sort of exertion from the shock.
Now, Walt is a smart man and I have the utmost respect for him. Also, there are lots of reasons that the guys he made refernce to have switched to what they have. Yes I know as well as any how there is a lot of "monkey see, monkey do" in this business, but there are a lot of reasons for using what they use.

Thank You
Kirk Loudy
ENVY Suspension

[F22 RAPTOR]

Not being a salesman F14 Flathead Briggs! Its not a matter of selling, its a matter of this. The tires have changed, setups have changed. When the tire companies make changes to the tires, then we as shock guys have to adjust what we do to the shocks to accommodate what they are wanting. As time goes on, things change, such as technology. In the better shocks of TODAYS RACING, you cant get there with the twin tube stuff for one, secondly, we are asking the car to do certain things that most of the time require some sort of exertion from the shock.
Now, Walt is a smart man and I have the utmost respect for him. Also, there are lots of reasons that the guys he made refernce to have switched to what they have. Yes I know as well as any how there is a lot of "monkey see, monkey do" in this business, but there are a lot of reasons for using what they use.

Thank You
Kirk Loudy
ENVY Suspension

Cute, name calling, very professional. You are right about one thing though, Walt is a smart man.

[ENVY Suspension]

You are very welcome Sir

[powdermonkey]

:)This thread went from interesting to retarded in a matter of posts.must be something about 4m.lol just messin with ya boys, have fun!;)

[walt stanley]

I am not retired just TIRED! Yes Kirk I am fan of the monotube design. They are much more simpler to build consistently. You will notice I didn't mention name brands, there are several great products available. Of course I am most used to working with PRO. Yes we got behind on the Late Model market place, as more companies came on board, but the game is not over! There new aluminum monotube has several new advances that the other companys dont have, a new breed of aluminum that will accept teflon coatings 100% doing away with wear problems. Kirk I do have a question: If we need exertion from our shocks, why is everyone advertising lower rod pressures? As you know 100lbs of gas is only about 20lbs of rod pressure or less.

[ENVY Suspension]

Walt,
Thats why we do what we do. Yes we pay a LOT of attention to rod pressure, but todays cars need some assistance if you will to help the cars do certain things. Thats why that you see certain brands of shocks better in one situation than another brand. I do tell guys all the time that ask about gas pressure and how low someone says they can run their pressure to "GO GET SOME TWIN TUBES". I never said that the Pros are bad, especially the new monotube stuff, which I do like some of the concepts. I also am smart enough to know that it mostly depends on who builds the shock, and IF its built to suit a certain person/situation. Thats TODAYS market. We are no longer in 3 valve or 5 valve world at all. Each corner of these cars need a specific built shock to make it do certain things. A lot depends on if you race in the North or the South. Also depends on horsepower, tires, surface(smooth or rough), and how the driver approaches the corners. Thats how this stuff is built today. Thats also why you have different guys that can drive brand A chassis better than brand R. You have to build to suit the Situation and Driver..

Thanks,
Kirk
www.envysuspension.com

[Dirt Man]

Walt, You made several references to getting some education. Where would a guy come across this education?

[walt stanley]

Education? Great question: As far as I know just about every shock manufacturer has some sort of program that will teach you to ASSEMBLE shocks. BUT this will not educate on the whens or why to make valving changes. They will give you a good baseline but that is about all. The old school guys(Moyer, Bloomquist,etc.) basically taught their self, they kept good notes and learned from them. Seminars: Another good idea, but again they will talk in general terms. Consultants: Probably the best way to get an EDUCATION. They CAN help you on shocks and your chassis. These guys are not inexpensive, but if you do your due diligence in choosing the reward will be great. Remember going to the track and NOT being competetive is very expensive! Which ever way you choose please remember ONE thing: COMMUNICATION both with your consultant and your racecar, the car will speak too you and tell you and the consultant what it needs! And no I will not say who for you to call, that is your homework. Best of luck!

[walt stanley]

Education? Great question: As far as I know just about every shock manufacturer has some sort of program that will teach you to ASSEMBLE shocks. BUT this will not educate on the whens or why to make valving changes. They will give you a good baseline but that is about all. The old school guys(Moyer, Bloomquist,etc.) basically taught their self, they kept good notes and learned from them. Seminars: Another good idea, but again they will talk in general terms. Consultants: Probably the best way to get an EDUCATION. They CAN help you on shocks and your chassis. These guys are not inexpensive, but if you do your due diligence in choosing the reward will be great. Remember going to the track and NOT being competetive is very expensive! Which ever way you choose please remember ONE thing: COMMUNICATION both with your consultant and your racecar, the car will speak too you and tell you and the consultant what it needs! And no I will not say who for you to call, that is your homework. Best of luck!

[Canadian]

Walt check your pm box.