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leadorfollow
01-27-2011, 05:41 AM
I'm curious if it's better to needle a tire than to sipe a tire. I'm not soaking tires or anything. I just want to know if it reacts better or lasts longer than siping? What are the pros and cons? I haven't found anything on this topic before. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

noballsnobabies
02-04-2011, 10:33 AM
anyone??????????????

joedoozer
02-04-2011, 11:35 AM
I was hoping someone would post on this, I was wondering myself. From what I understand needling has the same effect as siping and can be more effective; because it is more precise. But I am by no means an expert on this. Just what I have heard and read.

Egoracing
02-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Sipping is to create edges and friction to increase heat in the tire. Needling was tried MANY years ago in sprint cars and was forgotten about until it came back into light here recently. I do not see how a little hole could create more friction than 2 pieces rubbing but everyone it trying to sell the latest and greatest idea, even if it is 30 years old.

fast_crew
02-05-2011, 08:31 AM
Needling or dipping is done primarily to prevent blistering or over heating, gives the rubber more surface area to the air to cool. Circumference sipes or grooving also aids in cooling, along with some added side bite.

Egoracing
02-05-2011, 09:27 AM
Needling or dipping is done primarily to prevent blistering or over heating, gives the rubber more surface area to the air to cool. Circumference sipes or grooving also aids in cooling, along with some added side bite.

Drilling will prevent blistering and I could see where needling may also but it is not adding surface area as the area it would add is sealed tight to the other rubber touching it and not allow air flow. There was some BAD info going around a few years ago that siping allowed the tire to cool when in fact it creates friction when the rubber sides rub each other and increase heat.

RCJ
02-05-2011, 04:46 PM
You can't really make blanket statements about sipeing.To many variables, deep vs. swallow, cross vs. circumference,corner length vs. srtaightaway length.

jedclampit
02-06-2011, 09:28 AM
You can't really make blanket statements about sipeing.To many variables, deep vs. swallow, cross vs. circumference,corner length vs. srtaightaway length.

Very,very true.

leadorfollow
02-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Thank you everybody for your information. Everything that I found had lead me to the conclusion that needling is only used to release heat. Depending how you sipe will either gain heat or release heat but you have that option.

Egoracing
02-06-2011, 02:05 PM
A sipe puts two surfaces in contact with each other and at an angle to the main contact surface of the tire. ANY compression of the main surface will cause the 2 touching surfaces to rub against each other, this friction creates heat. Different angles will create more or less friction due to tire working load and angle but they ALL create friction between pieces of rubber.
Sipe a tire in as many ways as you want and leave about 1/3 of it not siped and run some laps then stop and hit it with a temp gun, ANY siped surface will have a higher temp than the unsiped surface. The longer you run them more the temp will even out across and around the tire but they will show the friction induced heat.
Depth of a sipe also reduces amount of friction by limiting the surface areas that are coming into contact but they still create friction.

redfred
02-07-2011, 12:28 AM
As it was explained to me recently by a tire rep, you should needle soft compound tires, 1100-1300 compound and sipe tires harder than 1300. Needling the softer tires opens them up but doesn't allow the tire to wear away like if it was siped. This is just what a tire rep told me so take it for what it's worth.