Fouling Plugs

[joedoozer]

I am wet fouling plugs, and feel like I am chasing my tail. So here is what I have.

The motor is a SBC, flat top pistons with 2 reliefs. Zero deck with World Product Sportsman II heads, a rough estimate of 9.5 to 1. Carb is a Holley 3310, with no secondary jet plate, running 69's in the primary. MSD ignition with AR133 plugs, running on 93 octane pump gas. Total advance is 34*.

This is a new short block from last year. The top end of the motor is the same as I had last year. The newer motor has a slightly more aggressive cam. During break in it seemed to run fine, I thought I could hear an occasional misfire. After changing the oil and filter, I pulled the plugs.

Not much carbon, the color looked ok. But the plug was wet, the liquid looked like you dunked it in Pepsi. It did not appear to be oil, because it stunk like fuel and the motor does not smoke at all. Although the plugs were a little sticky. Also the entire plug wasn't soaked, just sorted of "misted" on there.

My first thought was plugs were to cold. I stepped up to AR134's but the misfiring appeared worse. So I went back to a new set of AR133's and stepped the jets down from 76's to 74's. Ran it another 20 minutes, did a good shut down and pulled the plugs to check them. Same thing; wet and sticky. I kept repeating this process of stepping down jet sizes until I got to the 69's that are in there now. And again no change. I know the 69's are too lean but I was hoping to get to a point where I would see a change on the plug.

Here are some things I do know to be good. Header temps range from 550 to 750 depending on what cylinders they are. Ignition system gives me a nice sharp snapping blue spark. The power valve is not blown; I turned the idle screws in and it stalled. My idle mixture screws are set at 1 1/4 turns, this gives me the highest vacuum reading at 15 psi. It seems a little on the low side so I think I might be a smidge too advanced with the timing.

Am I missing something that is probably right in front of my nose? Is it possible that the rings are not seated, have absolutely no smoke at any time, and still oil foul a plug? Also running it in the shop at 3,000 rpm I can not get the water temp over 145 degrees. Is it possible the engine is too cold? Working on the car again tonight, and I think it is just a combination of fuel mixture, timing, and engine temp I have to get sorted out. But I will be picking up a leak down tester Saturday morning if I can't get it ironed out tonight. To rule out rings not broke in, and valves not seating. I really don't think it's internal because I have no smoke, there is no popping in the carb, and the header temps are not high. So I am not leaking any combustion out an unseated valve. And the motor does sound healthy, except for the loading up and fouling plugs problem haha.

[fast_crew]

Have you put a load on the engine at all yet? May have to put a load on it to get the rings to seat, depending on the cylinder wall finish, or trueness. Float level isn't too high? May want more timing try 36* Just some ideas

[joedoozer]

Haven't put a load on the car yet. I am in the middle of the city. Cops might not find it funny to see me ripping down main street haha. I believe the float level is correct. I have the car on stands (level) and its just below the hole. But I will check it again. I have changed jets several times, its possible something was "bumped".

I was afraid I would have to load the motor, I just don't like the idea of going to the track 1 week before the season starts with an engine that isn't running right. I would hope to rule everything else out by then.

I am going to put some cardboard in front of the radiator tonight to try and get the temp up. I think that is my biggest problem right now, it's just not warm enough. Recheck the timing and do a plug reading. I prop the throttle open so it runs steady at 3000 rpm. I assume this is fast enough to give me a decent plug reading when I shut it off.

Thanks for the help.

[parrot69777]

Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?

[joedoozer]

Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?

Oh no. it's brand new fuel. As soon as our season ended I drained the tank, carb and lines. And then dumped all the fuel in my truck haha. The specific gravity of the fuel is .760 if anyone weighs their fuel and wondered.

[parrot69777]

I am sure someone will argue this....but I don't think you will get a good reading by just sitting in the garage. I also think with that low of compression....I would be using the 134's. Also outside air temp and not being able to get it over 145 degrees could be a big factor as well.

[joedoozer]

Thanks for the advice everyone. All kind of backing up what I had been thinking the entire time. But when things aren't running right it's good to hear that you aren't too far off.

parrot: I had 134's in it for a 20 minute "stint", and it appeared to be worse. That being said, I am not in the ideal testing environment either. So under load and up to temp you are probably right; 134's being the best heat range. That was my first idea was to jump up a heat range. I will be throwing a thermostat in it tonight, and blocking the radiator off with some cardboard. I have a really good fan and shroud in it, Georgia summers haha.

Living_Truth: When I first fire the car it does lag for a second on the first "punch" of throttle. If I bring the RPM up to around 3500 and accelerate from there to 5500 or so, it does well. I can still hear a miss, but that is probably caused by it not being up to temp. After its cleaned out by doing that, it does accelerate off idle without any problems (except for the occasional miss). If I let it idle for more than 30 seconds, it obviously loads up; and then stumbles a little until it clears out again. Also I am running 93 octane pump gas. And haven't had an issue running it up to this point. It is new fuel, bought just a few days ago.

I just want to make sure I am not missing anything, over looking anything before I take a car to the track that doesn't run right in the garage.

[sj valley dave]

Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...

[joedoozer]

Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...

Yup, and I am going to yank out the 69's I have in the primary and put 72's in. I know I shouldn't change more than 1 thing at a time, but I think the 69's are way to lean.

[stock car driver]

You cant jet a motor in a garage. Quit messing with it and get it on a chassis dyno and tune it.

5500 with no load is just asking to ruin parts. I use a winch to load my car and to pull my car in the shop. I save my motors wear and tear for at the track where I can win something. I think I have started it at home between races maybe 5 times in the last 2 years.

[joedoozer]

Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

Thank you everyone else for your input.

[crc stock]

Locking your distributor if not already done will let you adjust your butterflies so it is not running of your main circuit. Just guessing you dont have it locked since u said 34 total advance. good luck

[ToddSmith16]

Fouling plugs from an idle is a given! Need to put motor under load at a play day or hotlaps to get the real reading on the plugs!!!!

[joedoozer]

Changed jets to 72's, set timing to 36 full advance. Threw a thermostat in it, cardboard in front of the radiator. Got it up to temp. Plugs look better, so its ready to go.

[stock car driver]

Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

Thank you everyone else for your input.

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

[parrot69777]

Isn't 4m great?

[powerslide]

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

How do you finish any races? If you have the same attitude at the track that you have here on 4m i'm suprised you dont get taken out everynite. Or do you just give the tough guy act on the net?

[merc123]

I got a brand new motor last season. We ran it on the dyno about 6 or 7 times. Bolted it into the car and ran 2 full races. 3rd race it started to misfire. It would rev to 5500 with a load and stop. It wouldn't misfire in the garage with no load. Turned out to be bad plugs...AR134's.

Truth is you won't know if it is driveable until you drive it. Wait until the play day and take it out on the track.

[stock car driver]

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

What part of that is a tough guy act? I hit the nail on the head about this guy, period.

He wanted to chat on here like it was yahoo messenger with other idiots. He didnt want any actual help whatsoever.

[4bangerhotrod]

we always had trouble when running autolites in our LM engines if the car set in staging idleing or had a lot of caution laps the plugs would get wet, even after cleaning it out before going green it always took a few laps to clean them up, then we would have to change plugs every 3-4 races. But now we switched to ngk and we havnt had a prob since, so now we switch plugs about every 10-15 races just to be on the safe side even though the engine dont seem to need it. and running the car in the garage we always do every week to make sure theres no obvious problems before heading out. when we get a new engine or one freshened the builder makes a couple dyno pulls when we pick them up then we adjust through the year by free revving in the shop never had a prob, then we back it up by a few runs down the ol black top just for the fun of it. this is with a top ranked national driver cars and a top ranked regional driver car. so stock car driver you might be good at what you do but your way is not the only way to do everything, cause there are people that do it different and it also works and we got walls of $10k an a few $50k checks to prove it.

[stock car driver]

we always had trouble when running autolites in our LM engines if the car set in staging idleing or had a lot of caution laps the plugs would get wet, even after cleaning it out before going green it always took a few laps to clean them up, then we would have to change plugs every 3-4 races. But now we switched to ngk and we havnt had a prob since, so now we switch plugs about every 10-15 races just to be on the safe side even though the engine dont seem to need it. and running the car in the garage we always do every week to make sure theres no obvious problems before heading out. when we get a new engine or one freshened the builder makes a couple dyno pulls when we pick them up then we adjust through the year by free revving in the shop never had a prob, then we back it up by a few runs down the ol black top just for the fun of it. this is with a top ranked national driver cars and a top ranked regional driver car. so stock car driver you might be good at what you do but your way is not the only way to do everything, cause there are people that do it different and it also works and we got walls of $10k an a few $50k checks to prove it.

Cool. Post some pics of those 50k check (s) on the wall please.

Id bet ya a grand your just another idiot who wants to CHAT...

[parrot69777]

Every guy I help....either the night before or race day....car is started, timing checked, float level checked, checked for leaks, etc. Be surprised how many things you can find sometime that had gotten over looked.

Nothing more fun than watching someone unload at a race track....run back and forth 5 or 6 times at the parts truck....trying to fix something they should have fixed in the shop.

[stock car driver]

That right there proves you are either lying or just full of crap.

Before I load the car on the trailer to go to the track, I start it. I get it up to temp, and check the timing, float levels, etc. EVERY RACE DAY. PERIOD.

Any idiot who doesn't even bring his motor up to temp before he puts it on the trailer is just talking. Hell, you must never set your valves or change plugs either, because there is no way in hell I'd do either of those things and not start the motor until I got to the track!

Keep up the attitude, chief. That's the best way to guarantee you'll never build anything but FWD cages!

:p

Sorry buddy, I dont start my motors at home. Thats a fact. I set lash COLD. And I load my car into a trailer not onto one. I change my plugs if I have a problem or rebuild a motor. They are made for thousands of miles of use, lol....

AND I believe this is your 3rd or 4th time commenting to me worried about my business... If Im not worried about it should you be?

[powerslide]

was your screen name montecarloman on the old forum???


Sorry buddy, I dont start my motors at home. Thats a fact. I set lash COLD. And I load my car into a trailer not onto one. I change my plugs if I have a problem or rebuild a motor. They are made for thousands of miles of use, lol....

AND I believe this is your 3rd or 4th time commenting to me worried about my business... If Im not worried about it should you be?

[stock car driver]

was your screen name montecarloman on the old forum???

same name sorry

I cant say I know of anyone that would let their motor sit and idle to get up to temp BEFORE they load it, thats the stupidest post on here ever....

My motors dont even get UP to temp till I start going around it, lol.. My motors will sit at 100-150 degrees for an hour if I was dumb enough to let them run that long.

I guess when you know your stuff is right you dont have to wear it out in the garage? Ive never gotten a trophy in the garage!

[4bangerhotrod]

stock car it will be a few weeks before I can post the pics since we are over 1000 miles away from the shop right now tryin to pick up a few more checks an wont be back for atleast 2 weeks. but you can come down to the casino tonight an see me since were rained out

[Egoracing]

I change my plugs if I have a problem or rebuild a motor. They are made for thousands of miles of use, lol....

This is about the stupidest thing I have seen you post. Plugs for racing are NOT made to run thousands of miles and stock plugs were NOT designed for the RPM, cylinder temps and ignition voltages of racing engines.
Guess you don't rebuild you engines until you get 200,000+ miles on them either, heck they are good for at least that long in a street car! Brake rotors and pads must last about 60,000 miles also.

[stock car driver]

This is about the stupidest thing I have seen you post. Plugs for racing are NOT made to run thousands of miles and stock plugs were NOT designed for the RPM, cylinder temps and ignition voltages of racing engines.
Guess you don't rebuild you engines until you get 200,000+ miles on them either, heck they are good for at least that long in a street car! Brake rotors and pads must last about 60,000 miles also.

Sorry buddy but a race season is not 200,000 miles. If plugs cant last you 20-25 nights youve got a serious problem.

Are you actually asking how long rotors and brake pads last?

Hot lap. 4 laps
heat race 8-12 laps
main 12-20 laps.

total a night aprox 35 laps. Largest track here is half mile. So 18 miles a night, lol...

[Egoracing]

If you are running plugs that long you are giving away HP after about 5-10 nights depending on the race length you are running. 150 racing laps and you will see a difference on a dyno.

[RCJ]

Looking down on your carb you will see 2 small holes on each side of the accelerator pump squirter.The ones close to the squirter are high speed air bleeds .The ones to the out side of the carb are idle bleeds.If you inlarge them it will give a leaner idle.That is the only adjustment I would make with the car sitting in the shop idleing and free reving it.The 3310 that you have does not have replaceable air bleeds like most racing carbs so you would have to drill them If you get them to big the only way to fix them is to drill and tap them for air bleeds.Most holleys get richer as you increase rpm' bigger high speed bleeds leans the mixture at higher rpm.

[stock car driver]

If you are running plugs that long you are giving away HP after about 5-10 nights depending on the race length you are running. 150 racing laps and you will see a difference on a dyno.


Your so full of it its pathetic. I chassis dyno all my stuff.

[Egoracing]

Your so full of it its pathetic. I chassis dyno all my stuff.
I think I have started it at home between races maybe 5 times in the last 2 years.


You are the one that is pathetic, You do not start it at home but you chassis dyno all your "Stuff". HA!! Keep building your 4 cyl bombers and acting like you know something. There is not even a single NASCAR team that does not start the engines after they are installed and let them come up to temp in the shop to check for leaks before hauling the car to the track and anyone who would is a fool.

[stock car driver]

You are the one that is pathetic, You do not start it at home but you chassis dyno all your "Stuff". HA!! Keep building your 4 cyl bombers and acting like you know something. There is not even a single NASCAR team that does not start the engines after they are installed and let them come up to temp in the shop to check for leaks before hauling the car to the track and anyone who would is a fool.

Your obviously drunk or something and havent READ and comprehended the posts in this thread. I obviously start and break in my motors at home before I load them up and go TUNE them on the chassis dyno.

I dont start them every week before I load them into my trailer is what I said earlier in this thread. I dont drive them out of my trailer I have a winch to pull the car out. I dont start them at HOME for fun there is no point or races to be won in my garage.

AND I sure as HELL dont start them after I change the plugs to make sure the plugs work at home, lol. And I know for a fact after a SEASON or more on the same plugs I am not losing power.


All of this of course is nothing youve EVER dealt with or decisions youve EVER got to make since you have NEVER raced. You loitered around a few shops over the years bugging guys who raced. Just like dynoman you are back on here after discovering all your previous b.s posts were purged with the change of this forum.

Its too bad, it was nice without your idiocy on here.

Ive already won 100% of the races Ive ran in 2011, exactly the same way 2010 started when I won the first two nights out in Feb..... I dont know crap though, just dumb luck I suppose!

[Egoracing]

I think I have started it at home between races maybe 5 times in the last 2 years.

This is your post, 5 times in 2 years! I read what YOU posted! You seem to be the one that is not reading correctly I never said anything about breaking in the engine. (FYI Nascar engines are NOT run in the car for break in.) The cars are started in the garage every week to check for leaks that may have been caused by contact/damage from the previous weeks racing or loose fittings done for preventative maint. his is evidently something you know nothing about. If your engines are wearing or having issues from being started at the shop you really need to quit running junk.
Anything someone points out anything to you, you attack them and your true mentality shows. As for what I have done and not done has no merit, I will guarantee I have NEVER taken ANY car to the track and had issues with it that should have been found in the shop and I NEVER open the motor at the track in a dirty atmosphere when it was something that could have been done at the shop.
As for races so far this year.... WHO is racing street stocks or 4 cylinders yet this year as that is all you run? You ran the ice bowl, and I will congratulate you on the win. I have been several times and know that the street stocks and even late models there is a race of survival. The track conditions are always fun, typically the crate motor cars out qualify and run faster than the Super lates proving that you do not need a lot of power at that track for that race, just a lot of luck and ability to turn the corner.

[powerslide]

I obviously start and break in my motors at home before I load them up and go TUNE them on the chassis dyno.

But you only start them 5 times a year at home... With all the racing and all that winning you do surely you are building 10-12 of those badass 406 street stock motors per year?

[stock car driver]

WHO is racing street stocks or 4 cylinders yet this year as that is all you run?

What are you racing this year?

What have you EVER raced?

I race STREET Stocks, period, by choice. It is the class around here with the MOST competition and closest toughest races period.

I can choose to race any class I want. Just like in the past.

In order for you, lol.

1993 enduro
hobby
street
sportsman
limited late model
super late model

2004 moved to Iowa
steet stock

[stock car driver]

Yeah, well you claim to have experience. Let me explain some "experience": Cracked ceramic on a brand new spark plug. I'll never load a car up after changing the plugs without starting it first.

Ever change the oil? I guess you change it cold since you don't start at home and bring up to temperature. That makes sense...

How about topping off the cooling system? I do that with the motor running.

Hell, maybe it's just because you can get away with these things on a little street stock motor?




Good for you, I dont care what you do or dont do. I didnt ask for your help or opinion, why are you so clearly upset about what I do? Is it because your one of the many who I have came to your home track and unloaded my junk and kicked your ass?

dont top off the cooling system, sorry its a sealed system.

change the oil cold, let it drain over night or so. run synthetic so only change it every 10 nights or so.

cracked electrode, had that happen before its obvious at the track, not so much at a idle not sure how you would even find it in the shop being as its only a issue under load.


Sorry it bugs you guys so much that I dont start my car before I load it and let it idle for a hour to warm up..... If it makes you feel better I warm up my 08 Dodge 6.7 before I leave.

[50j]

Congrats on the win! I start my car to check it out but a person can't say you're not good at what you do. If it's working, keep doing it I say.

[fattboyee]

to each his own. if you wanna put extra hrs on your motor at home great if you never start your car unless its race time thats up to you too.

personally i start mine when i feel the need to check things. i cannot afford dyno time and do not know anyone that owns one. but i do own enough land that my back pasture has a well defigned 1/4 oval. i do check my car out and run my diognostic test that way. it has worked well for me. plus its my way of having a lil fun in between race days.

we all know opinions are like aholes. everyone has one. i love 4m so many egos and opinions. thanks to everyone that has answered any questions i have. if i agree with you ar not i am thankfull for the help.

[kenbarls]

Hi. How did you do about "The propeller force is transmitted through a thrust bearing." Kindly share your experience about it..

[stock car driver]

Towed 1000 miles thru a lot of this and tornadic weather... From Iowa to Alabama.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/jnjfab/66%20Racing/100_0495.jpg

Ended the trip like this! My car started when I got there!! New rockers, push rods, plugs and stud girdles.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/jnjfab/66%20Racing/100_0509.jpg

[50j]

Nice job. How was the car count? Decent weather?

[stock car driver]

Nice job. How was the car count? Decent weather?

Great weather there, missed 3 tornadoes by minutes on the way there and snow all the way accross Missouri!

Car count was low in street and mods. rest had 23-60, mostly late models by some variation...

[roybeckett13j]

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, but I think its a good practice to start a race motor before you load up. I do it to help get the oil temp up some, i don't live but a few miles from the track, so it helps get it warm so when i get out for hot laps im not on lukewarm oil.

Also, I've had trouble with sabotage the past year....intake bolts completely loosened...drain plugs loosened, hose clamps suddenly not tight...so i start sally up and let it sit at 200-2500 for 10 minutes to triple check for anything that could be wrong...just a habit i guess, but to each his own!

[Jim11h]

you towed that far for a $1000 to win show? shame to say but i think after all said and done you either lost money or barely made a dime. Wins are priceless yes, but a racecar is business still to a degree and this just dont make good business sense! Not to mention all the signature of your buisness and i dont see a single spot of it's name on your car.

if your willing to drive that far why not bring that hotrod to eldora once for a chance to race at the big E? Always cool to see local hot shoes come i to tame what is considered by some as the "mecca"of dirt tracks. maybe i will be lucky enough to get to see it.

[stock car driver]

you towed that far for a $1000 to win show? shame to say but i think after all said and done you either lost money or barely made a dime. Wins are priceless yes, but a racecar is business still to a degree and this just dont make good business sense! Not to mention all the signature of your buisness and i dont see a single spot of it's name on your car.

if your willing to drive that far why not bring that hotrod to eldora once for a chance to race at the big E? Always cool to see local hot shoes come i to tame what is considered by some as the "mecca"of dirt tracks. maybe i will be lucky enough to get to see it.

It was 14 degrees at my house while I was in Alabama and it was near 70!! Enough SAID!!!

Eldora doesnt run cars close to my street stock as far as I know. If they have a special event feel free to email or pm info to me, thats how I found out about this race from a person on here.

I towed further than this for $500 to win. It was $75 to start the A, honestly thats all I could really hope to get back, anything above that is a bonus.

I spent 1450. 650fuel, 120steak and lobster dinner,100walmart drinks meat for barbque etc,200nice hotel,100tshirts for those with me,300pit pass and entry, I raced on old tires I would have gave away or sold for 20 a piece.

I learned a lot and my buddy who also raced learned a years worth of information and driving tips. I let him win friday and followed him around so he got my advice and saw himself on my in car. I knew he had a brake issue from following him because his entrys were so inconsistent. Turned out he never put the rear caliper spacers in so he had bad brakes all last year. His car is way faster than before and he followed me Saturday and tried to be as smooth etc.

This track was very different 3 turns pretty much so I feel I found a quick way around it that I didnt see anyone else use all weekend. Maybe my car turned in the middle better than the others but I knocked half a second off my time with my line and my car took it on its own pretty much like a hound dog on a trail.


My business is on my car, but very small, I like a clean BARE car.

[stock car driver]

Why are you wasting your time in street stocks? Why do you invest what you do simply to run the lowest class at many tracks?

I'm serious: 1000 mile drives, motors that cost you $5000 or more, dyno time...sheesh! It's way overkill, and thus no wonder you win what you do. Wins are great, but some of us like a challenge. Hell, no doubt I could sell my LM and do exactly what you are doing. Half the stocks at local tracks can't even finish the races on a regular night!

Don't you like a challenge? You'd rather coast to 100 easy wins instead of trying to earn a handful of hard victories? It reminds me of those old washed up LM drivers that move down to sportsman and dominate. This might be the reason your attitude here turns so many people off. Street Stocks FFS!

:confused:

lol, Ive got a grand that says you cant sell your late model and come to Iowa and top 4 period probably even at a weekly show. The IMCA and USRA stock car class I race in here in Iowa is the class with the toughest competition and closest races period.

Might be a bunch of junkers where you live but we have 4 other classes below mine here!

Why would I want a late model, any moron can race those, twice as much tire as a street stock or mod, race suspension where the challenge in that? Heck you buy them from people get set up from them and need nothing more than a k mart took kit and your wifes help to assemble them... Not to mention around me late models barely exhist.

Street stocks are still a class where a guy like me can build his own stuff and separate himself from the masses if he figures some stuff out others havent yet.

[carowner73]

10 cars showed, 4th place finisher from middle GA was a rookie with about 5 races experience. it wasnt really much to brag about.

[stock car driver]

10 cars showed, 4th place finisher from middle GA was a rookie with about 5 races experience. it wasnt really much to brag about.

I thought only 8 raced the whole time. And only 4-5 finished.

[steveshawjr]

ah .. the big money debate got to love it..

if your looking to make money in stock car racing your in the wrong line of work.
as richard petty said " to make a million in racing start with 2 and no when to quit".

5000 for a race engins not alot comparied to the price the lm guy put into to theres.


they say your nuts going that far for a 1000 to win show yet alot of the lm guys have gone further for the same amount. hmmm 1000 to win show for a street stock driver sound like a good pay day to me.

unless your a big time racer with big backing in sponsors and can race every night of the week how on earth can you run a local team as a bussnes thats what i dont get ... to me and im sure to many others this is a hobbie and a way of life we still get up every mornning and head off to work . spend our money on bills food and what we can on a stock car.

could be worse could spend all that money on drugs , boose, stamps , coins. only makes sense to spend it on a fun hoobie.


i like the way you put it JnJ how most lm and mods are just kit cars anymore.

they dont go out find a 30 year old car and make it new again they just buy them from someone new.

how manyof them make there own parts ? like me i made my own lowers from my car its no difrent than the 200 doller lowers they buy guess what i got about 30 bucks and some time in mine haha whos getting riped off

im glad you took the time to go that far and run and had a good outcome makes it even sweeter.

[carowner73]

Not really sure, wasnt there, going by their posted results. It just goes to show that not every big race is a quality win. You cant control who shows up and who doesnt, but its hard to know if the wins justify the bragging rights that some people claim. Where we race and where you race is completely different, not all people understand that. IMCA no real motor rules except the claim versus relative tight motor rules with a teardown following most big wins. Its two completely different worlds, people on here try to compare the two, but its apples to oranges. Just like the big motor setups these people brag about, you take away the big motor it changes everything.

[50j]

ah .. the big money debate got to love it..

if your looking to make money in stock car racing your in the wrong line of work.
as richard petty said " to make a million in racing start with 2 and no when to quit".

5000 for a race engins not alot comparied to the price the lm guy put into to theres.


they say your nuts going that far for a 1000 to win show yet alot of the lm guys have gone further for the same amount. hmmm 1000 to win show for a street stock driver sound like a good pay day to me.

unless your a big time racer with big backing in sponsors and can race every night of the week how on earth can you run a local team as a bussnes thats what i dont get ... to me and im sure to many others this is a hobbie and a way of life we still get up every mornning and head off to work . spend our money on bills food and what we can on a stock car.

could be worse could spend all that money on drugs , boose, stamps , coins. only makes sense to spend it on a fun hoobie.


i like the way you put it JnJ how most lm and mods are just kit cars anymore.

they dont go out find a 30 year old car and make it new again they just buy them from someone new.

how manyof them make there own parts ? like me i made my own lowers from my car its no difrent than the 200 doller lowers they buy guess what i got about 30 bucks and some time in mine haha whos getting riped off

im glad you took the time to go that far and run and had a good outcome makes it even sweeter.

That's how I see it too. He got a road trip in, had a nice vacation, got to race, won some money and had fun. Mission accomplished.

[stock car driver]

Not really sure, wasnt there, going by their posted results. It just goes to show that not every big race is a quality win. You cant control who shows up and who doesnt, but its hard to know if the wins justify the bragging rights that some people claim. Where we race and where you race is completely different, not all people understand that. IMCA no real motor rules except the claim versus relative tight motor rules with a teardown following most big wins. Its two completely different worlds, people on here try to compare the two, but its apples to oranges. Just like the big motor setups these people brag about, you take away the big motor it changes everything.

Your right, where I live there could only be 7 cars but all 7 total last year won 130-140 features at different tracks.

Talladega race down there I won had 23 cars, its only 45 minutes from this track and only 3 of us from Talladega were there? Go figure. BUT the best two cars they have in the area were there in the 8.

There was also a camaro on 10 inch wide dirt bozz tires, for a 8 in tire rule, I thought he might have been the one to beat all weekend but it wasnt so. My buddy who went with me and myself were a half lap ahead all weekend. Despite being penalized a 100 after being penalized 100 with 50 by the motor after I went out and hot laps for FUN and passed all the cars there in 2 laps with ease...

I was told the cars from the other track dont travel to this one because of the speed and wall near turn 1 that ate late models all weekend.

Only 6 mods at this show also for 1000 to win!!

[mqdirtracer57]

Jeff, You had a great run and congratulations. You may have driven half way across the country to get there but, you showed up and the car looked great all weekend. I seen alot of crates and sportsmans get destroyed trying to get into the feature and I am sure the heat race didn't pay a dime to win. Don't let anyone discourage you Jeff...If I could travel way off from home and win first time there I would travel more myself.

[stock car driver]

Jeff, You had a great run and congratulations. You may have driven half way across the country to get there but, you showed up and the car looked great all weekend. I seen alot of crates and sportsmans get destroyed trying to get into the feature and I am sure the heat race didn't pay a dime to win. Don't let anyone discourage you Jeff...If I could travel way off from home and win first time there I would travel more myself.


Yeah thanks, it was a great time, lots of nice people said hi and came by our pits both days. I let my buddy win friday so he could see on my in car camera how much hes all over the track in the corners etc. We worked on his car all day sat to fix it up and it seemed a lot smoother. I put my camera out the back saturday!!

I saw a lot of super lates, crates, sportsman etc get EATEN by the turn 1 wall!! I would see a guy go in there hard and think man hes got it figured out and next time he jumped the cushion a little and rode the wall all the way off the track... yikes..

[stock car driver]

Really, that's what you guys think? Because to me, a late model can be whatever you want them to be. What are your suspension options for a Street Stock? Front: Factory, maybe lengthen a-arms. Rear: factory. Probably GM style 4-bar. With some "tricks" I'm sure :rolleyes:

Late Models:
Front: INFINITE number of combos and upper/lower designs. No restrictions other than track width.

Rear: 4-bar, z-link, swing arm, truck arm, 3-link, leaf spring, partial leaf spring, pull bar, torque arm, j-bar, straight bar, shock/spring placements, multiple shocks/springs per corner...etc

Like I said earlier, If you want to prove yourself, you do it against the best! Not the rest!

:p


How did you do at the BAMA BASH was 10k for late models not enough?

[dirty white boy]

Really, that's what you guys think? Because to me, a late model can be whatever you want them to be. What are your suspension options for a Street Stock? Front: Factory, maybe lengthen a-arms. Rear: factory. Probably GM style 4-bar. With some "tricks" I'm sure :rolleyes:

Late Models:
Front: INFINITE number of combos and upper/lower designs. No restrictions other than track width.

Rear: 4-bar, z-link, swing arm, truck arm, 3-link, leaf spring, partial leaf spring, pull bar, torque arm, j-bar, straight bar, shock/spring placements, multiple shocks/springs per corner...etc

Like I said earlier, If you want to prove yourself, you do it against the best! Not the rest!

:p
ive got a super street car an now a late model im puttin together an must say theres lot more pride an joy in building a super street car!! this late model is like he said,..a kit car,..order an buy instaed or design an manufacture your self!! but to each there own i suppose...

[RCJ]

I hope I don't DQed for cutting the back half off our l/m and building it like I wanted or cutting it down to the frame and redoing the front suspension.I've built a bunch camaros and enjoyed every minute of it but its a different world in l/m.The real question is do you have enough confidence in your self to withstand getting your teeth kicked in every week till you get the hang of a l/m.

[parrot69777]

If anyone out there is running a late model straight from the manufacturer.....they are probably running in last place. I don't know of anyone who hasn't modified a late model to fit their needs. More engineering in a late model than a street stock.....especially because you are allowed to do alot more than you can with a street stock.

Not too mention you can miss the setup in a street stock and do well or even win.....if you miss the setup in a late model....you are either a half lap down and losing 2 seconds a lap....or your in the fence.

The biggest thing I liked about late models....if I tore up a quarter or a door skin....all I had to do was get a sheet of aluminum and make a new one. If I broke a lower control arm....I just went to the parts trailer and bought a new one. I didn't have to have a spare car or 3 at home behind the garage.

[usafracer]

Jets just face it Jeff is an a$$hole that thinks his schlit is better than anyone else's. I dont know how he manages to run a business if he conducts himself in person like he does on here. I have yet to find one of his posts that has anything helpful to say. As near as I can figure he is a troll.

Sorry to the original poster for posting in your thread.

[stock car driver]

Jets just face it Jeff is an a$$hole that thinks his schlit is better than anyone else's. I dont know how he manages to run a business if he conducts himself in person like he does on here. I have yet to find one of his posts that has anything helpful to say. As near as I can figure he is a troll.

Sorry to the original poster for posting in your thread.

Lol, thanks for being a fan!!

[dirty white boy]

Jets just face it Jeff is an a$$hole that thinks his schlit is better than anyone else's. I dont know how he manages to run a business if he conducts himself in person like he does on here. I have yet to find one of his posts that has anything helpful to say. As near as I can figure he is a troll.

Sorry to the original poster for posting in your thread.

i disagree,..seen lots of post where he is quite helpful,..but dose come with a good bit of sarcasm,..an at times a sales pitch for the parts whoever would need,..most time at a good deal!! takes all kinds to make the world go round,..race cars too!!

[Earl Parker II]

joedoozer,

I haven't read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone has recommended this or not, but the first thing I would do is get a good pressure gauge and check the fuel pressure at idle. If you have a 3310 with stock needle & seats then they have a .110" ID. If your fuel pressure is anything over 6 psi the pressure will override the buoyancy of the float and force the needle off the seat. The engine will definitely run rich enough in the garage to cause the problem you're experiencing (of course, it will run rich on the track as well). If this is your problem then tuning will be pretty much impossible.

If the pressure is too high, I'd get a Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regulator, plumb it into the fuel line after all filters, and set the pressure on 5.5 psi- gives you a little cushion and will provide plenty of fuel for WOT operation. You'll need to have a pressure gauge in the car but get the remote sending kind- a fuel line running to the dash can be the source of way too much excitement in the event of a crash.

It looks like the Autolite AR133 crosses over to approximately a Champion V59C (I'm most familiar with the Champion numbering system but double-check me). Given your combination that strikes me as too cold of a plug for at 9.5 engine on, say, a 1/2 mile track. The AR134 (V63C) should be a lot closer to the correct heat range. However, at 9.5 you should have room for a projected nose plug which would provide much better throttle response and acceleration. A Champion V63Y (fine-wire center electrode) would probably work very well- in fact, it was specifically designed for a 9.0 - 10.0 CR. If you can find the Autolite equivalent if wouldn't hurt to give it a try- if not, just try a set of V63Ys.

[joedoozer]

joedoozer,

I haven't read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone has recommended this or not, but the first thing I would do is get a good pressure gauge and check the fuel pressure at idle. If you have a 3310 with stock needle & seats then they have a .110" ID. If your fuel pressure is anything over 6 psi the pressure will override the buoyancy of the float and force the needle off the seat. The engine will definitely run rich enough in the garage to cause the problem you're experiencing (of course, it will run rich on the track as well). If this is your problem then tuning will be pretty much impossible.

If the pressure is too high, I'd get a Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regulator, plumb it into the fuel line after all filters, and set the pressure on 5.5 psi- gives you a little cushion and will provide plenty of fuel for WOT operation. You'll need to have a pressure gauge in the car but get the remote sending kind- a fuel line running to the dash can be the source of way too much excitement in the event of a crash.

It looks like the Autolite AR133 crosses over to approximately a Champion V59C (I'm most familiar with the Champion numbering system but double-check me). Given your combination that strikes me as too cold of a plug for at 9.5 engine on, say, a 1/2 mile track. The AR134 (V63C) should be a lot closer to the correct heat range. However, at 9.5 you should have room for a projected nose plug which would provide much better throttle response and acceleration. A Champion V63Y (fine-wire center electrode) would probably work very well- in fact, it was specifically designed for a 9.0 - 10.0 CR. If you can find the Autolite equivalent if wouldn't hurt to give it a try- if not, just try a set of V63Ys.

Thanks for the plug tips. I have the 134's in the car now, haven't had it on the track yet with those plugs. Last time out it looked a little cool. But it's tough to get a good plug reading when you idle back to the pits.

[4bangerhotrod]

im not sure who all changes there late models chassis from the chassis builders but i work around alot of top national drivers and the only ones ive ever seen change the chassis is the guys running rayburns, well they used to run them. we change are base setups alittle to suit the driver but hardly ever will we acually change something on the chassis. I know alot of dominate regional drivers and there cars are as they were from the builder. if you have a good chassis builder you shouldnt have to change them, people think that top drivers get a diff chassis than what the local guys get but ive never seen a difference in the chassis we've acually ran cars from local guys that were better than the cars we get.

[Earl Parker II]

An update, that's a 12-803 fuel pressure regulator, not a 12-804. Thanks to Dave W for catching this mistake.

[parrot69777]

im not sure who all changes there late models chassis from the chassis builders but i work around alot of top national drivers and the only ones ive ever seen change the chassis is the guys running rayburns, well they used to run them. we change are base setups alittle to suit the driver but hardly ever will we acually change something on the chassis. I know alot of dominate regional drivers and there cars are as they were from the builder. if you have a good chassis builder you shouldnt have to change them, people think that top drivers get a diff chassis than what the local guys get but ive never seen a difference in the chassis we've acually ran cars from local guys that were better than the cars we get.

Guys like Moyer, Bloomquist, Mars, etc. have been modifying Mastersbilt's, Rockets, Rayburn's, Shaw, etc. for years. You don't think they just woke up one morning and had a Victory, MB custom, Bloomquist chassis sitting on the shop floor. Several of the top guys who get cars from the major manufacturers....have all their work done in house and any joe smoe who buys a new car from these companies get all the old technology.

Quote on Wikipedia about Scott Bloomquist:

He is known for working on his own racecars as the chief chassis builder. He used to race in chassis' built by major chassis manufacturers. He would then modify the chassis with tricks that he learned during his decades of racing. He decided it would be easier to build his own chassis than to modify someone else's design. He now sells "Bloomquist Chassis'" (aka. TEAM ZERO) to select racers.