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hot_rod
03-07-2011, 09:43 AM
We are closing in on the upcoming season and I think that I might have an issue with my left rear spring falling out while on the track. We have been building a new chassis for the 2011 season and I think that we have installed the spring bucket to high to allow the 13" spring to work properly. I dont think that we have a coil bind problem. Just the fact the spring probably wont stay under the car when it rolls over in the corner. I currently have a 13" 250lbs in the left rear, we are not done with all of the fabrication yet, but overall weight should be right at 3200lbs with me in the car. We have not been able to set ride heights yet or scale the car. I was hoping someone could give me the rate for either a 16" or 20" spring, knowing what I have currently. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

dirt2
03-07-2011, 10:56 AM
What rates will you use for the other three springs?
What percentages will you use for left,rear & crossweight?
Out of 18-20 cars that i work with no one has had a spring to
fall out or the left rear or get up off the spring.
dirt2

hot_rod
03-07-2011, 12:06 PM
RF - 1100 I am pretty sure that these are the right sides, but maybe vice versa on the front springs
LF - 1200
RR - 200
LR - 250

Percentages are appx's: Rear 55%
Left 51%
Cross 49%
Percentages are without me in the car.

The reason that we are thinking that it might fall out is when the shock is extended all of the way out on the left rear the spring is almost 4" from the spring cup (which floats on the jack because it is screwed onto the bottom of the jack bolt). when the car is just sitting on the ground it doesnt look like there will be an issue, but when we jack the left side up it pretty much falls out. We have been trying to simulate some of the roll over, to see if it will fall out.

raceman17
03-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Add a chain to the leftside axle housing to the frame at the length needed to keep the spring in the bucket. Either that or get a longer spring. You dont want to be messing around with a spring falling out of the car everytime you jack up the frame or worse yet is have the wrecker pick you up from the rear of the car and have your springs fall out and roll down the track.

hot_rod
03-07-2011, 01:39 PM
What I was asking for was spring rate conversions from a 13" 250 to a 16" or 20" spring. I really dont want to put a chain and limit the amount of rollover that the car will have. I want the weight transfer. If someone could give me a ballpark number of what spring rates I would need in a 16 or 20 that would be the same as a 13" rated at 250lbs.

stock car driver
03-07-2011, 01:43 PM
Changing to a taller spring doesnt change your spring rate. put 16s in the back and move on.

hot_rod
03-07-2011, 01:59 PM
If I put in a 250lb 16" in place of the 13" 250lb, would that not effect the set up of the car. I.E. ride heights, wheel percentages. The jack bolt would have to be screwed out quite a bit for everything to be the same would it not. I have never tried a 16" spring, hence why I started this thread. I thought that with the whole three wheeling thread the idea was that you wanted a taller lesser rated spring because of compression.

stock car driver
03-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Of course you would have to screw the wt jack out.

dirttrackrocker
03-07-2011, 02:10 PM
The taller spring won't affect anything. Yes you will have to back the weight jack off some, but it doesn't change anything from a weight to the wheel standpoint. A 250 lb spring means it takes 250 pounds to compress that spring 1" it doesn't matter how tall the spring is.

hot_rod
03-07-2011, 02:15 PM
Of course you would have to screw the wt jack out.

That wouldnt leave me much room for changing track conditions on race night.


Would I need to replace both rear springs or just the left side with the 16"s. I have 11" jack bolts but with 16" in the rear I wouldnt have a lot left.

keithbaker
03-07-2011, 08:08 PM
I would try to not turn my jack bolts at the track. Just change wheel offset, add remove wheel spacers, mess with stagger, air pressure, etc. If you are putting a 250 16in spring in to replace the 250 13in just leave in the 13in. Shock travel will probably keep it from falling out.

bushracing67
03-07-2011, 09:48 PM
hmmm, so far a real lack of help from the peanut gallery..... a longer spring of the same rate would change nothing other than where the jack bolt is set, if you car weighs 3200, assuming about 53% rear with 100# of bite would be 898# on lr=3.592" of compression on the 250# spring. putting you at 9.408" at ride height, to compare a 20" 100# spring would measure about 11.02" at ride height, and a 16" 125" would measure 8.816" at ride height... i hope that answers your question, if you are using harder tires or racing on a dry slick track i would start with the 20" spring, if you are using bigger/softer tires or racing on a tacky track try the 16 first, i have played with the 20" and concluded that it tends to hurts me on a heavy track, i just bought a 16 to mess with in heats and heavier nights to see what it does, as far as moving/changing at the track do not be afraid to make changes, just record what you are doing, if you want to change a spring on one corner of the car simply reset ride height of that corner with the driver in the car and it will not effect the weights of the other 3 corners of the car

hot_rod
03-08-2011, 06:33 PM
First off I would like to thank BushRacing67, that is exactly the information that I was looking for. As far as you said about the the slick track/hard tire or heavy track/soft tire, we have to run a stock DOT tire (I try to run BF Goodrich Radial T/A's when I can afford them). The track normal starts out heavy in the heats then turns really dry slick for the features. Our track will normally run 6 classes a night with UMP Modifieds being the main show. So with your recommendation for a 16" or 20" spring, I kinda have a combination of the two. If I was better off money wise right now, I would just buy both and try them. But I am pretty financially restraint right now. I am preparing to separate from the Navy and wont start my new job for a little bit. For the time being (until I can afford both springs) which one would you recommend me to purchase.

Now for the rest of you (Jeff): I have tried to utilize the information that was given, but for the most part failed miserably. Mainly stock car driver, that info was useless. I thought that I was pretty clear as to what I was asking for, but I guess not. I realize that I am only coming up on my second year in a stock car, but I am not to stupid to know that if I put in a spring that has the same rate just taller I would have to raise the jack bolt. I am not trying to do that. You can try it on your car and let us know how it works for you. I dont see how that would help a thing. So if you have anything that is useful, I would greatly appreciate the information otherwise I will use what BushRacing67 has said.

To Keith Baker: I appreciate your opinion, but the shock travel is the main reason why I am thinking that I will have the issue or the spring falling out. The way that we have the shock set up it has a lot more rollover travel than the spring will allow. As far as jack bolt changes, I dont have any spacer or different offset wheels. Right now, I have enough wheels to go racing and not tear any up. Jack bolt changes if recorded are a pretty cheap of making adjustments. All you have to do is reset all of the jack bolts to the way that it was set up on the scales and you are pretty much back to where you started (within a small margin of error).

bushracing67
03-08-2011, 07:25 PM
on the dot tires i would go with the 20" spring, it was slowing me down in heavy heat races, but i run american racer late model tires, so i have a lot more drive right off the bat, glad i could help..... i thought your question was pretty clear lol

stock car driver
03-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Now for the rest of you (Jeff): I have tried to utilize the information that was given, but for the most part failed miserably. Mainly stock car driver, that info was useless. I thought that I was pretty clear as to what I was asking for, but I guess not. I realize that I am only coming up on my second year in a stock car, but I am not to stupid to know that if I put in a spring that has the same rate just taller I would have to raise the jack bolt. I am not trying to do that. You can try it on your car and let us know how it works for you. I dont see how that would help a thing. So if you have anything that is useful, I would greatly appreciate the information otherwise I will use what BushRacing67 has said.

Boy you told me.

I answered your exact question in your first post... you clearly asked for what rate 16 or 20 inch spring to put in to replace your 13 based on the information you gave........ If you fail to see that I answered your EXACT question you are in fact STUPID.... Go read your first post if you can find it.


Like I said boy you told me, bahahaha!!!

It is true there is no such thing as a dumb question, JUST DUMB guys asking them and even DUMBER guys who when you answer their question want to argue with you, lol...

stock car driver
03-08-2011, 08:18 PM
I was hoping someone could give me the rate for either a 16" or 20" spring, knowing what I have currently. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



SEE right there above??? I quoted from your first post....

This is what I answered even though you forgot to put the ? at the end...

hot_rod
03-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Jeff
Yes, you answered my exact question. I already knew that I could just put another 250lb 16" spring in the back, but if you had read on to the other post that I had posted (the one before you had posted) and it clearly states that I was asking for a "spring rate conversions from a 13" 250 to a 16" or 20" spring". Not for someone to tell me that I need to put the same spring only longer in it. I realize that you are the Champion of the Ice Bowl and Bama Bash and I am not any kind of champion in racing. You have been around racing long enough to know that you don't want an 11" jack bolt sticking 10" out of the jack plate, that's just stupid. I do apologize if I wasn't clear enough in the beginning. I am trying to be perfectly clear now, all I wanted was the spring rate for a 16" or 20" that compress and be the same length as my current 13" spring. That question has already been answered in some detail by another fellow racer. So again let me apologize for being a beginner racer and not knowing that others couldn't interpret what I was asking. Oh ya let me apologize for leaving the question mark off at the end of my sentence, I didn't know that grammar was such a hot topic on 4m.net.

Dirtrunner35
03-08-2011, 09:28 PM
First off I would like to thank BushRacing67, that is exactly the information that I was looking for. As far as you said about the the slick track/hard tire or heavy track/soft tire, we have to run a stock DOT tire (I try to run BF Goodrich Radial T/A's when I can afford them). The track normal starts out heavy in the heats then turns really dry slick for the features. Our track will normally run 6 classes a night with UMP Modifieds being the main show. So with your recommendation for a 16" or 20" spring, I kinda have a combination of the two. If I was better off money wise right now, I would just buy both and try them. But I am pretty financially restraint right now. I am preparing to separate from the Navy and wont start my new job for a little bit. For the time being (until I can afford both springs) which one would you recommend me to purchase.

Now for the rest of you (Jeff): I have tried to utilize the information that was given, but for the most part failed miserably. Mainly stock car driver, that info was useless. I thought that I was pretty clear as to what I was asking for, but I guess not. I realize that I am only coming up on my second year in a stock car, but I am not to stupid to know that if I put in a spring that has the same rate just taller I would have to raise the jack bolt. I am not trying to do that. You can try it on your car and let us know how it works for you. I dont see how that would help a thing. So if you have anything that is useful, I would greatly appreciate the information otherwise I will use what BushRacing67 has said.

To Keith Baker: I appreciate your opinion, but the shock travel is the main reason why I am thinking that I will have the issue or the spring falling out. The way that we have the shock set up it has a lot more rollover travel than the spring will allow. As far as jack bolt changes, I dont have any spacer or different offset wheels. Right now, I have enough wheels to go racing and not tear any up. Jack bolt changes if recorded are a pretty cheap of making adjustments. All you have to do is reset all of the jack bolts to the way that it was set up on the scales and you are pretty much back to where you started (within a small margin of error).


How much is your spring compressed now ?

keithbaker
03-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Try this equation for spring rates, force/(spring height - compressed height)=spring rate

stock car driver
03-09-2011, 07:01 AM
Jeff
Yes, you answered my exact question. I already knew that I could just put another 250lb 16" spring in the back, but if you had read on to the other post that I had posted (the one before you had posted) and it clearly states that I was asking for a "spring rate conversions from a 13" 250 to a 16" or 20" spring". Not for someone to tell me that I need to put the same spring only longer in it. I realize that you are the Champion of the Ice Bowl and Bama Bash and I am not any kind of champion in racing. You have been around racing long enough to know that you don't want an 11" jack bolt sticking 10" out of the jack plate, that's just stupid. I do apologize if I wasn't clear enough in the beginning. I am trying to be perfectly clear now, all I wanted was the spring rate for a 16" or 20" that compress and be the same length as my current 13" spring. That question has already been answered in some detail by another fellow racer. So again let me apologize for being a beginner racer and not knowing that others couldn't interpret what I was asking. Oh ya let me apologize for leaving the question mark off at the end of my sentence, I didn't know that grammar was such a hot topic on 4m.net.

You forgot to apologize for being STUPID.

hot_rod
03-09-2011, 09:06 AM
You forgot to apologize for being STUPID.

Ok, if this is what you really want then here it is: I apologize for being stupid and not "properly" wording my question. Let me tell you about me, if you care. I have been an Electronics Technician in the United States Navy for the last 9 years. What is that you might ask? Well I will dumb it down so you can understand, I am responsible for the maintenance, troubleshooting, and repair of complex digital and analog circuits in multi-million dollar Communication (both line of sight and satellite), RADAR, and various Navigation system. Sounds pretty stupid to me. But as far as me being stupid about this question, ok fine. I can fix my "stupid" question and behavior with the proper knowledge and experience. You however can't fix your ignorance, your just stuck with it.

hot_rod
03-09-2011, 09:12 AM
How much is your spring compressed now ?

I am not real sure how much is it right now, I will be able to check this weekend when I go to work on the car. But there isnt a lot of weight on the rear of the car because we are still working on a lot of the stuff back there. I will probably have to wait until I get the car completed and ready to scale before I can provide more exact numbers.

stock car driver
03-09-2011, 09:31 AM
Ok, if this is what you really want then here it is: I apologize for being stupid and not "properly" wording my question. Let me tell you about me, if you care. I have been an Electronics Technician in the United States Navy for the last 9 years. What is that you might ask? Well I will dumb it down so you can understand, I am responsible for the maintenance, troubleshooting, and repair of complex digital and analog circuits in multi-million dollar Communication (both line of sight and satellite), RADAR, and various Navigation system. Sounds pretty stupid to me. But as far as me being stupid about this question, ok fine. I can fix my "stupid" question and behavior with the proper knowledge and experience. You however can't fix your ignorance, your just stuck with it.


I think based on your stupidity shown here in this one thread you probably change light bulbs. If even, lol.

I doubt you could self study and pass the 7 hands on exams in ATT...

That said go read the stupid stuff your posting. The spring doesnt know if it has 1 inch or 10 inches of jack bolt above it. You dont have a assembled scaled car so you have no idea where your spring top will be.

You clearly dont have the smarts to ask what you really need to know.

What you really need is the measurement from someone for the rear wt jack height from the top of the frame. Then you can cut and weld yours in the right place....

lol. Either way thanks for the laughs.

wrengoodman114
03-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Hey guys don't mean to interupt but, if he goes with softer spring same height, it will extend further and possibly stay in bucket!
But if softer it will also affect weight transfer from rear to front, it will make it free on throttle.
On another hand if he goes longer springs that effects spring table on car!
If you change from 13 to 16 or 20 inch springs, during throttle application the cars weight transfer to rear will be slower which effects how fast the loud pedal is mashed!
On the chain or strap to keep car down, what happens when your going into a turn and the spring isn't seated, no weight on left rear "tight" and all the sudden the spring touches perches, "weight on left rear, now "loose" all in the same corner! The car dosent have a brain but if it did it would be confused! Also if not on spring and on solid bars "solid suspension" imagine what happens when tire is crossing bumps it'll only touch the top of them.
Hope this helps your situation
Wren Goodman
Little River Speedway
1-256-452-9390

hot_rod
03-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Hey guys don't mean to interupt but, if he goes with softer spring same height, it will extend further and possibly stay in bucket!
But if softer it will also affect weight transfer from rear to front, it will make it free on throttle.
On another hand if he goes longer springs that effects spring table on car!
If you change from 13 to 16 or 20 inch springs, during throttle application the cars weight transfer to rear will be slower which effects how fast the loud pedal is mashed!
On the chain or strap to keep car down, what happens when your going into a turn and the spring isn't seated, no weight on left rear "tight" and all the sudden the spring touches perches, "weight on left rear, now "loose" all in the same corner! The car dosent have a brain but if it did it would be confused! Also if not on spring and on solid bars "solid suspension" imagine what happens when tire is crossing bumps it'll only touch the top of them.
Hope this helps your situation
Wren Goodman
Little River Speedway
1-256-452-9390



See now that is useful information.

stock car driver
03-09-2011, 04:38 PM
See now that is useful information.

yep dude you really are STUPID.

A softer 13 inch spring will be shorter when in the car and expose even more of your jack bolt...

I sure hope someone else is actually building this and your just standing around watching thinking of these stupid things to ask about, lol..

post up some pics of this NEW chassis you built

wrengoodman114
03-09-2011, 07:02 PM
What I posted was facts and options to think about during decisions!
Lets play nice on here, this is a sport we all love doing and learning is part of it!
Heres another option for ya to make Street Stock Driver happy too!
Go with a 15 inch spring and 50 lbs softer, adjust weight jack to ride height and jack up car and see if it still stays on perch, if not go 25 lbs lighter and try it.
This is the only way without chain to hold car down.
Plus it wont change the spring table much!

Wren Goodman
Little River Speedway
1-256-452-9390

Hammer
03-10-2011, 07:17 AM
I bet there's more guys winning on normal spring setups than a smashed down soft 20 or 16in spring. there's more to these cars than just putting a smashed down spring in them and heading to the front. weight placement high and low, BAR ANGLES, front end settings(bump and arkman) are some key factors in a street stock.. jmo

hot_rod
03-10-2011, 08:44 AM
I bet there's more guys winning on normal spring setups than a smashed down soft 20 or 16in spring. there's more to these cars than just putting a smashed down spring in them and heading to the front. weight placement high and low, BAR ANGLES, front end settings(bump and arkman) are some key factors in a street stock.. jmo

I will agree with that whole heartedly. Although in my current situation, I feel that the 16" or 20" spring is my only option. I will not be cutting the spring bucket out and lowering it, just not going to happen. We take into account pretty much everything you listed above, but if the left rear spring falls out then everything was done in waste. We run in a Pure Stock division, our rules say that we have to run strictly stock suspension components. But we can alter the upper rear control arm for pinion angle. In the rear we are allowed to run heim joint shocks, but front has to be stock. Only the rear is allowed to have jack bolts. So we are limited as to what adjustments we are allowed to make on the suspension. We try to get our front end setup as close as we can, while staying within the rules.

hot_rod
03-10-2011, 08:58 AM
Jeff
check you facebook, I sent you a message on there. That is where the pictures of my car are.

MBush
03-10-2011, 09:09 AM
As I sit back and read this stuff everyday reading questions and answers from people I wonder how ignorant people can be. The guy from the speedway shared a answer most people wouldn't bother telling you then you don't take his advice what a guy you will be lucky to receive help again from here again. Might be in your best intrest call the number he listed to let you explain process in phonics I know I wouldn't have shared that info for free on here
Bush

bushracing67
03-10-2011, 10:24 AM
Hey guys don't mean to interupt but, if he goes with softer spring same height, it will extend further and possibly stay in bucket!
But if softer it will also affect weight transfer from rear to front, it will make it free on throttle.


not even close, the longer left rear spring, although softer in rate, adds an unimaginable amount of left rear mechanical drive on the throttle, the more horsepower the more left rear drive you have, when using this set up it basically takes all the normal ways of thinking and throws them straight out the window, my first night on a 20" lr i was carrying the lf 18"+ and i couldn't have spun the car out with throttle if i had to, i did end up looping it half way down the straight.... i really had no idea why... until my crew guy told me i spun when the rf tire came off the ground too.... so loose on the throttle should not be an issue with the 20" 100# spring, when the car rolls over it adds mechanical drive via bar angle, and it adds it at a much faster rate than what you loose from a softer spring, it also takes the weight that you are unloading from the lr and dumps it to the right side, change your rr spring to keep the car pointing straight on the throttle, and be ready to add some camber to the rf i am up to about 4.5 degrees

keithbaker
03-10-2011, 11:05 AM
So would have increase rr rate? How much? Would you need to increase rf also?

And how much rebound on lr shock?

stock car driver
03-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Jeff
check you facebook, I sent you a message on there. That is where the pictures of my car are.

Car looks nice, I would have put the cage back further while it was cut out of the other car but maybe you have rules for the location.

Your wt jacks are pavement type cans, you should be fine with 13 or 16 once you get it built and on scales.

My upper wt jack is 7.5 above the frame in the rear and I run 16s and have ran from 25-275 of bite and its worked for me.

bushracing67
03-10-2011, 02:09 PM
i run a 13" 175 on the rr, i do change it based on track conditions, anywhere from 125-225, my car is 400# lighter, but that really does not seem to change what i run for rear spring, last car was 3200 and i was running a 13 175 rr most of the time in that one too

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oldgold
04-17-2011, 11:34 AM
Ok, if this is what you really want then here it is: I apologize for being stupid and not "properly" wording my question. Let me tell you about me, if you care. I have been an Electronics Technician in the United States Navy for the last 9 years. What is that you might ask? Well I will dumb it down so you can understand, I am responsible for the maintenance, troubleshooting, and repair of complex digital and analog circuits in multi-million dollar Communication (both line of sight and satellite), RADAR, and various Navigation system. Sounds pretty stupid to me. But as far as me being stupid about this question, ok fine. I can fix my "stupid" question and behavior with the proper knowledge and experience. You however can't fix your ignorance, your just stuck with it. dont feel bad about that jacko that is so much more advanced in knowledge he verbally assaulted me on some questions before.

hot_rod
10-02-2011, 10:37 AM
Well I put the new spring in that I bought almost 4 or 5 months ago. I ended up getting an Eibach 16" 100lb spring to replace my 13" 250lb spring. I rescaled to the car and set everything back up to the percentages that it was before. The track that I run at is a high bank on the top and little to no banking on the bottom. Its a 3/8ths tight corner that is rougher than a roller coaster and slicker than ice on most everynight. (they really have no idea how to prep a track). For full body cars like mine, we typically run the top in single file through the corners, then try to pass on the straights. My car last night was the best that I have ever had with the new spring. I was able to run as low as possible have the car stick. I was able to pass cars doing a slide job. Last night was the most fun that I think I have ever had in a stock car. Out of twelve cars I was 4th fastest in qualifing, and normally I am a tail dragging car. Not normally real fast. I was extremely impressed and just wanted to give an update since I finally put it in the car.

Thanks for all the help.

LowTechRacing
10-05-2011, 02:18 PM
Do you have stock spring pockets, or weight jacks? I would like to try it also.

TeamGRT12x
10-06-2011, 01:35 AM
I'm still baffled at why you took 150 pounds of spring rate out of the left rear.

hot_rod
10-06-2011, 11:45 AM
I'm still baffled at why you took 150 pounds of spring rate out of the left rear.

Technically I did take the spring rate out, but when the spring is compressed at ride height it has almost the same length as the 13". The 13" was compressed to around 9 or 10", now the 16" is compressed the same or almost the same. The way this helped me is that down the straights it has the compression as before, but in the corners when the car rolls over the spring stays in contact with the rearend providing more force on the left rear. I went from pretty much no weight on the LR to actually have some weight. It helped a lot come out of the corners with forward bite. It went from one wheel pulling to both wheels pulling.

hot_rod
10-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Do you have stock spring pockets, or weight jacks? I would like to try it also.

I am running homemade spring buckets with 11" jack bolts. Stock Car Driver said that they were asphalt buckets, I dont know about that. I just made them out of some plate and a 7" ID peice of pipe, with a nut welded to plate on top.

stock car driver
10-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Technically I did take the spring rate out, but when the spring is compressed at ride height it has almost the same length as the 13". The 13" was compressed to around 9 or 10", now the 16" is compressed the same or almost the same. The way this helped me is that down the straights it has the compression as before, but in the corners when the car rolls over the spring stays in contact with the rearend providing more force on the left rear. I went from pretty much no weight on the LR to actually have some weight. It helped a lot come out of the corners with forward bite. It went from one wheel pulling to both wheels pulling.



When the car rolls over and the spring extends you dont have any more force pushing down than you did before.

The spring is way to soft to have any rate as its extended..

for example

250 16 @12.75 = 860#
225 16 @12.75= 765#ish
150 16 @12.75=500# ish

If it worked to help you than its for some other reason than the springs rate.

hot_rod
10-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Well that was the theory behind why I put it in. I don't think that there is a lot of pressure being applied to the LR, but it has more than before. I can't say what exactly was the overall contributing factor to the car running as good as it did,but the only thing that changed was the spring. With the new setup, I might not be able to run high on the track anymore. Our track is so rough that high is generally the better line if you miss the giant holes and ruts. Since a lot of people don't run down low it seems to hold together better. I am extremely happy with the setup, the only thing that I regret is waiting until there was only 3 races left in the season when I put it in.

This is pretty close as to what I actually have:
Old: 13" 250 compressed to 9.5" = 875lbs
13" 250 no compression = 0lbs
New: 16" 100 compressed to 7.5" = 850lbs
16" 100 compressed to 3" = 300lbs.

To me the 300lbs in the LR is better than the 0lbs. I'm approximating the compression for the 16" in the corners but that is close to what the car is rolling over. So there is my logic and thought process. It might be completely wrong but it worked out for me.

TeamGRT12x
10-06-2011, 03:18 PM
You are over engineering this whole thing. You're building kinetic energy with a compressed spring. It only goes so far. If you need more left rear drive, you need to add left rear bite. The spring table with that soft spring is going to be real messed up.

stock car driver
10-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Well that was the theory behind why I put it in. I don't think that there is a lot of pressure being applied to the LR, but it has more than before. I can't say what exactly was the overall contributing factor to the car running as good as it did,but the only thing that changed was the spring. With the new setup, I might not be able to run high on the track anymore. Our track is so rough that high is generally the better line if you miss the giant holes and ruts. Since a lot of people don't run down low it seems to hold together better. I am extremely happy with the setup, the only thing that I regret is waiting until there was only 3 races left in the season when I put it in.

This is pretty close as to what I actually have:
Old: 13" 250 compressed to 9.5" = 875lbs
13" 250 no compression = 0lbs
New: 16" 100 compressed to 7.5" = 850lbs
16" 100 compressed to 3" = 300lbs.

To me the 300lbs in the LR is better than the 0lbs. I'm approximating the compression for the 16" in the corners but that is close to what the car is rolling over. So there is my logic and thought process. It might be completely wrong but it worked out for me.

a 16 250 would have been better

But like I said if it worked then something else is working for you not the spring, lol..

hot_rod
10-06-2011, 09:23 PM
a 16 250 would have been better

But like I said if it worked then something else is working for you not the spring, lol..

I can't say that the spring was the fix all either, but I'm pretty happy with it.

stock car driver
10-06-2011, 09:26 PM
I can't say that the spring was the fix all either, but I'm pretty happy with it.

Were you able to get back to the same amount of bite and wheel weights with the soft spring?

stock car driver
10-06-2011, 09:28 PM
And yes I would be happy too if it works..

Im hoping that my rf frame being bent up a inch and a half will make the car faster, lol..

I fixed the left sunday am and bent the right sunday pm. two weeks ago. Its been a rough two weekends at special events. Was towed off on 2 trucks last friday, replaced everything for saturday, won the b and bent some stuff in it on a tractor tire.

ran the a and car was a handfull finished 11th and found steering box sloppy and idler with half inch of play.

hot_rod
10-07-2011, 10:12 AM
Were you able to get back to the same amount of bite and wheel weights with the soft spring?

We never wrote down what the setup was before the spring. We scaled it in the middle of season. I remembered what the cross percentage was and we got it back to where it was before. The wheel weights was something that we should have written down, but I got all of the percentages to what we thought they were before and I know that we put the cross back.

Well Jeff hopefully your luck will turn back around. After I t-boned the wall in June we had to have my right front pulled. My car now is the best that I have ever had.

tpl12blk
10-07-2011, 05:20 PM
Thanks so much for this! This is exactly what I was looking for

stock car driver
10-08-2011, 02:36 PM
Well Jeff hopefully your luck will turn back around. .

survived night one

4th in passing points out of 44 cars
4th in the 15 car pole dash which the top 6 got locked in

got to 2nd easy behind a good friend so was taking it easy and happy with being locked in and two guys decided they really wanted to mix it up banging on me and each other so i ended up 4th, no flats etc, lol..

Driver88
10-08-2011, 03:14 PM
I still don't understand how you completely unloading the LR. Unless something else is wrong.
Have ya got the back of the car way up in the air? Is the RF really soft?
I'm just don't understand how ya completely unloading a 13 spring with a weight jack.

Dirtrunner35
10-08-2011, 07:29 PM
A 100lb spring with 300lb on it will compress 3 inches

A 250 lb spring with 300 lb on it will compress 1.2 inches

So if your 250lb spring compresses 3 inches it has 750 lb on it.

A 100 lb spring with 750 lb on it will compress 7.5 inches.

wrengoodman114
11-24-2012, 09:27 AM
Your welcome hot rod still doing good with soft spring?
Wren Goodman