Help,I'm ready to sell the car!!!

[eddieb1965]

I have a 406 with cast RHS heads 12.5-1. I am trying to get this to run on alcohol with no luck .My problem is I am blowing 12" blue flames out the headers.Ive tried 3 alcohol carbs and used a carb that was ran last year with 93 jets front and rear, and have had the timing all over.I am not blowing fuel thru the carb or by the needle and seats.One suggestion was try a hotter Hei, I have also installed new plugs and am running the correct fuel pump and pressure.I dont think I want to jet any leaner than I already have it. Any ideas? I'm wasting my time and money with this setup ,and am thinking about staying parked or maybe going back to gas later (more money). Thanks for any suggestions ,Eddie

[hpontap]

Was the engine ever ran before? If so what was changed other than carb/fuel pump?
One suggestion is to make sure the timing is right and fill the front bowl of the carb with gas instead of alcohol to get it started. This is commonly done especially when the air temperature is cool.

[fast_crew]

How much fuel pressure are you running, (idle and at speed)? Flames out the pipe indicate a rich condition, but why is the question. Is timing locked out? How much are you running? Air filter or housing isn't restricting carb flow?

[eddieb1965]

I guess my last 2 responses didnt post... I have talked myself into going back to gas.Alcohol is cheaper and runs cooler,thats it. Here are the drawbacks I have found. It is hard starting.Will run you out of the garage in 10 seconds. Need to use and store alot more of it.Alot harder on your engine. Corrodes the crap out of anything metal.Makes a better refreshment than a fuel.I will change all the cooling system over and find a different carb and fuel pump,drain what little alcohol is left and see how it sounds.Guess going to alcohol wasnt one of my better ideas. Eddie

[mr.slidewayz]

I guess my last 2 responses didnt post... I have talked myself into going back to gas.Alcohol is cheaper and runs cooler,thats it. Here are the drawbacks I have found. It is hard starting.Will run you out of the garage in 10 seconds. Need to use and store alot more of it.Alot harder on your engine. Corrodes the crap out of anything metal.Makes a better refreshment than a fuel.I will change all the cooling system over and find a different carb and fuel pump,drain what little alcohol is left and see how it sounds.Guess going to alcohol wasnt one of my better ideas. Eddie

you will like the gas a lot better . the extra fuel load helps ballance the car on long runs . i tried to send you a p.m but it wont let me (you better not be blockin me - i got a big ol bumper for blockers ...lol ) . you might have your valves set to tight . that will let a fuel come out the pipes lit up . fix your (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) p.m's i dont wana share all my info with evaryone . lol

[cassellracing24]

Assuming you are using a Holley 750 alcohol carb, a good base line for a 406 would be 132 jets front & rear with 5.5 PV. 93 jets sounds more like e85 carb, so just be sure. Put in something like a Autolite 373-13 or 373-132 plug. Let engine warm up for 15-20 min & take out for 1 Hard lap & shut off. Look @ plug to see what is going on (a little harder to tune this way than gas). Alcohol fuels have a wider air/fuel ratio tolerance for good power, methanol will make excellent power from a correct air/fuel ratio up to a rich condition, there is no need to "lean her out" for power as you would with gas. Also run 2-4 more degrees of timing than you did on gas because alcohol burn's so much cooler and slower than gasoline.
Hope this help's.....

[usafracer]

Sounds like of you have 93's in it some one drilled the metering block to get the extra fuel. That is the old school method. If you dont know who did it or what size drill bit they used then its a crap shoot on what jets to use.

You would be better off throwing that carb in a box and getting one that was built right.

[eddieb1965]

My login thing has always been screwed up,I'll figure it out sometime. I set my valves hot with the cam card,so hot lash shouldnt be tight ,especially when cold .The other carb I tried is a 850 Holley with 142's front and back with 6.6 power valves and 45 squirters.I could try a set of 132's but would that make that much difference? I will try those plugs,that would be cheap and worth a try. Does anyone suspect my HEI,It is a KMJ cheapo with a 65,000 coil and i have good wires(I have also ran this on gas with good results.) Can a HEI run good on gas and not be hot enough on alcohol?

[nathanbaker55]

I had a issue last year with a blue flame when i lifted getting in the corner. Chased it for a few weeks and ended up being a cracked header. I don't know why it done it but changed the header and was fine.

[cassellracing24]

The diff between 132 & 142 is huge cosidering you have 4 jets, a 6.5 P.V. is rather big unless you have a very mild cam, try what I described above & let us know. Do not run more than 1 or 2 laps untill you have verified plug's.

[eddieb1965]

Ok,I pulled #1 and #2 plugs Plugs are brand new Accel 576 gapped at .035.-Electrodes are a purple color back at the bend where it attaches to the plug.One is fairly purple color at the bend the other is very slightly purple in color. What is this telling me? Timing off that much,or wrong plugs,or gap? Will a rich condition make them look this way?I will get the Autolite plugs but I can only find AR132 are they the same as you were mentioning.I have never been over 210 with this engine and only got to 210 at high idle setting still on a pretty hot day.

[eddieb1965]

After some quick research,looks like my timing is close.It also looks like I need a colderplug,which the Ar132's are. My plugs are chrome color,so is this why I'm getting a purple color? Anything else I should look at,I will get the 132 jets and the 5.5 power valves. Thanks Eddie

[50j]

I would get the right spark plugs and ditch the carb with the old skool gas jets and extra holes. Alcohol works great with the right stuff. Nothing works good with bad equipment.

[eddieb1965]

I did ,I have my alky carb back on with 142 jets.I will get 4 132's and the right heat range plugs and see what it does then. Thanks for all the responses,Eddie I know alky works,but everyone now is running belt drive pumps and high tech bypasses with engine builders tuning them.I am on my own and am just trying to get this setup to work,without spending major bucks.

[eddieb1965]

For anyone following this thread,I may have found the problem. My carb is an 850 CFM,and may be to big.I was also told dont jet down anymore as Jetting only affects the WOT ,not idle.The only thing I may be able to do to this carb is screw the 4 corner idles way in and lower the idle to around 1000-1200 rpm so I am not trickleing fuel out the boosters. I will give it a shot,but may be looking for a 650-750 CFM carb. Thanks to anyone who replied(Sorry I failed to mention what size my carb was,this may have caused some misdiagnosis on my part) Eddie

[Egoracing]

850 cfm should have nothing to do with the problem if it is set up right.

[dirttrackrocker]

I agree.. I have an 850 on my 358.

[eddieb1965]

Looks like I have at least 3 carbs that will not work on my engine.I guess they are all either converted wrong or setup wrong.Does anyone know of anyone in Central Illinois that I could pay to have this diagnosed.Engine is in car and I would bring it to you.I am chasing my tail and am out of time and patience. Thanks Eddie Call or E-mail me at 217-371-9418

[ToddSmith16]

Do you have a header leak(gasket, broken/leaking header)? Seems like you have gone through several carbs and they are all doing the same thing. I would look else where...timing, foul plug, distributor not locked, valve lash, etc....!

[eddieb1965]

Had someone today tell me they had the same problems I am having when they first went to alcohol.Hei would not run alcohol. MSD AL6 cured his problem. Looks like I'm upgrading my dist. and ignition.

[hpontap]

It is something simpleAgain, has this engine been ran before? Has it had anything changed other than the carb if ran before messing with it?Is the advance locked in the distibutor? Check that the timing is correct. Valves set correctly. If timing is right and valves are set right, the engine has good compression and good fire, then the carb is the culprit.
Really sounds like the timing is low or the carb is loading up to me.
Good luck

[ljdardy]

hei will fire alcohol with no problem,been doing it for years

[cassellracing24]

Yes, I was getting ready to say same thing, HEI will work just fine !!!! 142 jets should be close on a 850 carb, close enuff to start tuning anyway. Timming should be around 36 with cast heads on alc. Range on Idle screw should be 1-2 turns out, any more or less is unaffective. A by-pass reg would be nice but not absolutly nessesary, as long as fuel PSI is around 8-9 & Needle\Seat are in good shape it should run good enuff to start fine tuning. If you have a fuel psi inside car watch & see what it is doing. If all else fail's call Willy's if nobody at track can help you get it lined out....


Willy's Carburetor and Dyno Shop
1000 Market Street
Mt. Carmel, IL 62863
http://www.willyscarbs.com/

[eddieb1965]

Thanks for all the responses,but unfortunately after 3 hrs in the shop today I have no good news and am out of resources(I am sole owner,sponsor and investor).I'm thru throwingtime, money into this setup and venture. Car is for sale in the classifieds.

[eddieb1965]

Jason,Butch and the gang at TCA has my car,Lets see what they come up with....

[usafracer]

Please keep us updated on what they find!

[cassellracing24]

Eddie, I see you took my advice, was Butch able to line it out? What was problem ? Hope their was no damage to motor....

[eddieb1965]

Its been 4 days and no word,they did call me the next morning and said the balancer may or may not be wrong,but havent heard anything else.Might not of been a simple fix.I will give Jason a ring later today.

[eddieb1965]

Got the car back late this afternoon,to late to go to Jacksonville tonight.Here is what Butch did. Pulled motor and found it was balanced wrong(new balancer and flexplate) looked the whole bottom end over(looked good).Changed the headers and mufflers(mine were crappy),Changed to a different plug and gapped at .040.Completely went thru carb and found a couple of bad gaskets(0 rings).Set fuel pressure a 6 psi. Bumped timing up to 37 deg. Car will idle pretty good at roughly1600-1700. I should be ready for next week if it doesnt rain.Bill wasnt to bad either. Thanks Jason,Butch and the rest of the guys at TCA.I will continue to do business with them..Eddie Beddingfield A-Mod #12

[cassellracing24]

Good, hope it halls asz now !!
Glad to hear no bottom end damage due to misbalance.
So was it a 850 cfm & what jets did he end up putting in ??

[eddieb1965]

He left the 142's in front and rear.He said its still a little fat but better that than lean.He also said I could upgrade the ignition and plug wires.I'll do that as cash permits. Eddie

[eddieb1965]

Well got to hot lap car tonight before rain set in.Butch and the TCA crew made a world of difference. I had way more motor than I had car hooked up.Now that it is driveable I can work on the other stuff. Thanks TCA for a potent and driveable powerplant. Eddie B. A-mod#12