MasterSbilt RR spring

[racer241]

The team i run for has two masters smackdowns, one 09 from mars 2" round and an 08 1 3/4" square. We are still fairly new to the cars but really like the way they are working. Our problem is the left front lifting pretty high on both cars even in the dry. The tire stays barely on or very close to the track, the handling balance on both cars is great just don't care for the lack of visibility. Both have 250lbs RR springs just wondering if going stiffer ( say 275 or 300) could help this and not hurt the balance of the car too much??

[Egoracing]

A stiffer RR may losen the exit, what are the other springs and when is it lifting the LF, when you enter or only on the gas or only off the corner?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How much rr travel are you getting? RF travel?

What are the rest of the springs? How is corner entry? 5th coil spring and distance from center of axle?

250# should be plenty of rr spring

[Matt49]

Weight Percentages???

[racer241]

here are the springs on the cars: Rf 400 Lf 500 Lr225on one car and 250 on the other Rr250
the 08 has a 350lbs 5th @35" (the 08 is slightly worse about the carrying)
the 09 5th is 300 @ 36"

percents: 09 left:53 rear 55
08 left:53.5 rear 56-57
the entry is great on both cars initial throttle hikes smooth then it feels like the RR gives out and it squats on it making it tough to see exiting especially on flat track. It isn't like looking at the sky but it would be nice (and safer to race) to keep it down. especially because we haven't put them on really tacky tracks yet and it is already doing it in the dry some

[racer241]

we havent done the travel yet but they both have nice nose down entry, especially the 08( have the LR brake on the birdcage)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How much drop is your limiter set for?

[racer241]

How much drop is your limiter set for?

both cars are traveled to just under 13" so about 12 3/4" or so. both have max dynamic LR upper angle of 45deg.

[Matt49]

Moving the 5th coil back may help you some. Our car tends to hike the front a lot more the further we have the 5th coil out.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Moving the 5th coil back may help you some. Our car tends to hike the front a lot more the further we have the 5th coil out.

I would probably look there first. Anything else that would work will certainly change the handling of the car.

[grt74]

I would also look at the rr top bar if you lower it to much it will cause this also so you might raise it a hole but it will free you up on exit a little so you might have to tighten it up somewhere else jmo

[35racing]

Ive had this issue before and was told to check my rear end location and make sure drivers weight was in the car when checking. 15 3/4" from 90/10 plate to center of RR frame rail. Mine was off and after fixing it seemed to help... I guess its worth double checking.

[dchamp3]

5th arm shock should be at 34'' ,the rr top bar should be one above neutral and looks like the rear % on the 08 car is a little high back it down to 54-55% and what about the rebound in your front shocks.

[racer241]

We can back down the rear weight, we do have plenty of lead behind the driver seat to make our series limit. The 08 has Integra canisters and the RF was full close on rebound the last run out .

[racer241]

Hey 35racing which way was your rear end off ?

[35racing]

Im pretty sure it was to far to the right, but dont remember how far...

[dchamp3]

Did having it full closed on the rf seem to help any because on our cars we run them full closed all the time and what about your left front how much do you have there.

[racer241]

having it full close didnt seem to help a ton, the rebound doesnt seem super stiff in the shop though, maybe needs a rebuild? I think the LF was 6-8 clicks from full open

[4J Automotive]

Not to change subject or steal your post but while there has been some talk of 5th coil. I have a 09 masters and it really responds well being indexed on RR birdcage. We have tried several things with the LR wheel spacer being the most effective up to this point but we need more drive off the corner. We moved top left four bar and got worse. Can moving the 5th coil give us that immediate fix coming off without taking off the index on RR? To simplify my question: Where can we tighten the car on exit without moving the RR off index?Another question: If I rolled the rear end forward would it affect my entry with the RR being indexed?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Not to change subject or steal your post but while there has been some talk of 5th coil. I have a 09 masters and it really responds well being indexed on RR birdcage. We have tried several things with the LR wheel spacer being the most effective up to this point but we need more drive off the corner. We moved top left four bar and got worse. Can moving the 5th coil give us that immediate fix coming off without taking off the index on RR? To simplify my question: Where can we tighten the car on exit without moving the RR off index?Another question: If I rolled the rear end forward would it affect my entry with the RR being indexed?

Is the car too loose on exit, or does it lack forward bite? They are not the same thing. I assume you are saying that you raised the lr top bar and the car go worse? What is your max dynamic top bar angle? Do you have it indexed too? Is it standard length?

Any change to the static rear steer will effect entry and exit.

[sj valley dave]

What would you do with lack of forward drive off? If you index the LR top bar down on the bird cage, you have to drop it on the frame also, so you do not go over the 45% angle, correct? On real dry stuff our car is good except lack of drive off...

[4J Automotive]

Lacks forward bite. I love the car on the entry but it won't go forward on exit. We did raise top left bar and it was awful. Nothing on left side is indexed. I couldn't tell you what the top bar angle is and the bars are standard length. Let me rephrase; I don't want the car to change on entry but I want more forward traction? That make sense? Pardon me being naive here, I am relatively new to this.

[Matt49]

A few thing I would try:
* lower LR bar on chassis
* move 5th coil back
* less j-bar angle (this will free entry but give you better forward bite coming off, don't know til you try)
* more rear weight (this could tighten entry also)
* if track is slick, take lead out of driver's right foot

That last one is not intended to be funny at all. Often time the track will only handle so much HP regardless of your setup.
Sometimes you have to make an adjustment that might change the car on both entry and exit and compensate for the undesired entry change. For example, more rear weight to give you better forward traction off the corner. But then if you go out and it is too tight on entry, try raising your RR lower on the frame or softening your LF spring. Both of those changes will effect mainly entry and almost not at all exit. Net result could be right where you want to be.
The exact scenario above helped a guy I know a bunch.

[BIGFREAK101]

# 1 if you got the left front up coming off your extending the left rear up to the point of it actually snapping the left rear off the track I would stop go back to a baseline setup from masterbuilt .
#2. Then place some of that lead (like 25 to 30lbs) of lead to the left frt in front of the master cylinders. Spread the wieght also to the middle of car as much as possible. Cam high and in the middle to make car balance .
#3 make sure frt shock on the left rear has the correct drop ie may or maynot need extension. More then likely you are good. There but check it.

Finally
#4. K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid Don t over think it. When you get the left frt back down then play with the right rear spring. And when your at the track one night do nothing but some stagger out and lower the left lower bar to add bite to left rear and the driver must learn to drive the car straighter as the night goes along he must learn to drive a car a little free on entry. That's the problem you have to slower the driver down too not only the car. LOL good luck. The new GenX. Uses a 275 in the slick. good luck