dual stage RF setup

[cushionbumper]

I'd like to get back to the use of the dual stage setup on the RF.
We tested with this several weeks back and the driver like the feel of it, but we are lacking the ability to adjust the locking nuts to give us more travel before the slider contacts the locking nuts.
We currently have a 4" 400# spring on top, and an 8" 575# spring on the bottom giving us an approx 236# stacked spring combo.
With the car at ride heights, I only have 1" of travel between the locking nuts and the slider. This gives me no ability to increase the distance between the locking nuts and slider, which would give us more time on the soft spring combo before the slider would make contact with the locking nuts causing the RF then to be on the heavier spring. Thinking of trying a 4" 600# spring on top to see if this would give me more adjustability between the locking nuts and slider.
Comments, thoughts???????
Thanks, CB

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You are just making the rates closer together and defeating the purpose.

Something ain't jiving in my mind why you can't get more travel.

[cushionbumper]

I can't argue with you on that MB Racer, and I believe the 400#/600# setup is fairly common, but I need more than a 1" adjustment. Could it be because we are running an all steel motor which of course causes the 400# spring to compress more?
6" springs would certainly solve the problem if someone would manufacture them.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If your 4" spring is compressed so much there is little room to maneuver the stop before it hits the upper nut or you run out of threads, get someone to make you a couple different size spacers to put between the spring divider and the upper nut.

[poppy]

I am guessing you do not have the correct spring spacer. I have been told the base line setup for this is to measure 1.5 inches between the jam nut and the top cap. You adj from there.

[DirtyDriverII]

You need 7" springs, the short 400# will coil bind unless you go to a longer spring. This will also give you more than enough space to adjust your lockout to what it should be.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Makes sense DirtyDriver. I have never had a 7" spring though. I have owned a few 6", but don't remember what manufacturer they were. I have only used spring stacks on the front the "old school" way of making the front raise to get rearward weight transfer, so I never had the issues cushionbumper is running into.

[cushionbumper]

@poppy, the stop nuts and slider are the ones from Afco; and when you say the measurement shoud be 1 1/2 inches from the jam nuts to the top cap, is this the same as 1 1/2 from the jam nuts to the top of the slider. Again, all I can get is 1" between the jam nuts and top of the slider.
and to make sure I have everything installed correctly, the slider sets between the top 4" spring and the bottom 8" spring, with the jam nuts installed under the 4" spring and all the way up to the point where they are touching the bottom of the upper spring cup.


@dirtydriverII - are you suggesting the use of 2 7" springs to replace the 4" and 8" we currently have? This would certainly give me more that enough adjustments for the stop nuts, but not sure about a total spring height of 14"?


More comments, thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, CB

[Dirt Man]

If you have that much spring crush at static ride height you have the wrong springs or something is assembled wrong.

[billetbirdcage]

He has exactly what you would expect for those spring lengths! You have the wrong spring lengths, you need to use 6" or 7" springs. You may only be able to use 2 6" springs depending on what shock you have. You need to mix or match 6/7" springs, most shocks will except 2 7" springs but some won't. Some can use 1 8" and 1 7" but its extremely tight.

You also need to make sure the floater has enough collar above the spring seat that it can't come off the shock body during compression or it may hook the bottom of the shock body and only work off the lower spring (floater gets caught on bottom of shock body thus only using the lower spring).

The taller or stiffer the top spring is the more gap you will be able to have, but get to long on it and it forces the lower to need to be shorter which will/can cause the floater to come off the shock body during compression resulting in above problem.

[cushionbumper]

@dirtman, we have about 500# of RF weight. At that rate, the 400" spring should compress about 2" leaving 2" of remain spring height, but the issue is the locking nuts under the 400# top spring only having 1" of adjustability. The installation is exactly as both Afco and Integra have in their instructions.
CB

[grt74]

ive seen alot of posts on this subject,we use this setup and have used this for about 2yrs it works but there are alot of ways to do it,we use 2 7in springs and let me say this depending on several of the different front ends of todays cars the lock nut will have to be adjusted differently for each one along with driver preference remember that when you back the lock nut off to an inch and a half this is a starting point ,spring rates and drivers preference will change this,test test test hope this helps some,,ive also helped some other drivers with this and all of them have it adjusted a little different with different spring rates,just another fine tuned ajustment if you know how it works and get it right!!! also to cb without seeing it it sounds like the slider may be a little long or the 4 inch spring lets it travel up to high on the shock like i said we have always used 2 7 inch springs

[Dirt Man]

Were run that combination along with several others softer and stiffer and never had those kind of issues. Maybe as grt74 suggested your slider is longer than what we used. Ours is 1 1/4" long.

[Wheelman33]

AFCO makes a 5" 400# secondary spring for this setup. Sounds like this will fix your problem

[mab18]

You keep saying lock nuts (plural). If your using the afco setup with 2 nuts that jam together get rid of one of them and have one machined thinner to about .300 tall and drill thru the side of it and tap for a 8-32 set screw that will help give you more room to move.

[CHUMBA]

Had the same problem! got longer top spring ( 7" ) fixed problem!

[BIGFREAK101]

What I heard is after some long testing someone was doing was a 600 5inch top and a 700 8inch lower this makes a 323 till it gets on to the stop. But just what I heard take it as a grain of salt .you Could call RE Suspension. In Moorsville NC 704-664-2277 they'll hook u up. good luck

[ALF401]

How much left rear (or bite) are you cranking into the car??

[devil6]

so what is the major reason for trying this ?. have been reading lots but have not seen a real reason

[lovinlatemodels]

The idea is to use 2 spring combined to a softer rate for corner entry. When adjusted right the second stop nut catches the heavier spring about mid corner to give you the forward traction needed to get off the corner. This is a set up Carrera had back in the early 90's infact i still have the books on it. This is also a very sensetive set up as a driver you have to be consitent with your driving style shock has to be right for the timing device to make it work.

[dualdj1]

yeah my understanding is basically it lets you transfer weight easier, but you still will be running on a heavy spring once it transfers. so it lets the RF roll over and then stick.