water pump

[jsw444]

whats the best water pump to use on a gas fired 406 its running just a little warm
right know it has a gm aluminum pump thinking it might not be flowing enough any help appreciated thanks jeff

[Egoracing]

Stewart Components phase 2 or 3 pump.

[sj valley dave]

We run an Adams pump....Not cheap, but a great water pump!

[lovinlatemodels]

Before you go and buy high dollar water pumps are you running a 4 blade fan and 1 to 1 pulley.

[dfhotlm33c]

I agree with lovin..If you are on gas you definitely need the 1 to 1 pulley! Don't run underdrive pulleys...
also..are you running a fan shroud?
Are you running antifreeze? This will prob start a debate, but straight water is actually a better coolant...run distilled water, or get a bottle of water wetter or other "lubricant" to ensure you don't have corrosion issues.
Have you checked your radiator cap? make sure you are running a high pressure cap and that it is functioning properly
Are you running a thermostat and/or restrictor? There are lots of theories here...and I believe it all depends on individual situations..but I have had better luck running a 180 thermostat and a restrictor..
Just some ideas

[jsw444]

thanks guys for reply i was thinking stewart stage 3 myself i do have a 4 blade fan the pulleys are 20% reducted i use a howe radiator because there shop is only 10 miles away they said no restictor and no shroud i still think its a water flow issue simply because the pump is a gm aluminum pump !! anyways speedway has a pump for less than 100 looks very similar to a stewart might try that thanks again jeff

[SS Motorsports]

Cleaned the radiator lately? If you are gonna fall for the Speedway Motors cheap "racing" pump, you would be better off to go and get a pump from Napa. They're less likely to be made in China.

[washeduptoo]

This is where we bought ours and it works great on our mod on gas.

http://theperformanceconnection.com/

[jsw444]

i hear the cheap china stuff ok ill buy the stewart !!!!! yes the radiator is new car only has about 75 laps total always has run about 240 thanks jeff

[Egoracing]

i hear the cheap china stuff ok ill buy the stewart !!!!! yes the radiator is new car only has about 75 laps total always has run about 240 thanks jeff

http://stewartcomponents.com/

Also read their Questions section and the tips! ALOT of great info!

[mbaker76]

The black edelbrock is reallly good too. i think its 8817

[rubbinsracin]

we run a heavy duty Speedway pump with a 32lb cap and an afco double pass w/ a shroud. we run 1/1 pullys with an 18" nylon fan. I know what you all are thinking! yes a nylon fan. its good up to 8000rpm(we never turn close to that) and pull as much air as we used to w/ our 4 blade fan and we save about 10 lbs of rotating weight. throttle response was a little better. we have our nose right down on the dirt and no holes in the nose and come off the track at about 190-200*

also, if you run on a dusty track, it is a good idea to pull the radiator out and set it down in a big catch pan of warm soapy water over night and look at all the junk that comes out of it, after that drain the soapy/muddy water out of the pan and put just warm water in w/o soap and let it sit another night. rinse it off and put it back in w/ distilled water and 2 bottles of water wetter and you should be good to go. we do this about every 10 races.

[rubbinsracin]

also, why not run a shroud? in the past we have seen that unless your fan is within 1-2" of the radiator or you are running alky, you are giving up quite a bit of cooling potential. we went from none to a shroud and dropped 10-15* just by making that change.

[Egoracing]

Rubbin, it may be working for you as we used to run a close system but there is not a nylon fan alive that will move the same air as a steel fan for one reason, they flex.

Also I have NEVER understood the idea that a double or triple pass is better. Yes you are sending the water through 2 or 3 times BUT is is moving 2 to 3 times faster to flow the same amount of water AND there is more drag/resistance in the system causing the pump to have to work harder to move equal amounts of water which costs HP. I have not seen an engine that would not cool with a proper system and a single pass radiator including a 1100hp blown pro street Camaro that was driven to shows in Fla during the summer with the AC on in the car and he drove it from Tampa area to shows in Daytona!

[rubbinsracin]

basically the reason we run a double pass is because we were behind someone that had a break rotor fail and it bounced up and went through our single pass we were running about 3 years ago. so we called up the local places that next day to go get a radiator so we could race the that night and all they had in stock was double pass. so they sold it to us for the same price as a single pass because they couldn't get us a single in time in the size we needed.

the theory behind it is that the water has the ability to go through the top half of the radiator first, then back trough the bottom half second, therefore increasing the amount of time it has to cool before it goes back through the motor. im not saying its the only/correct way to go, but it will help some. heck for the first 15 years we have been involved in racing, we never ran anything but a single pass and rarely fought cooling issues. our motor guy runs an A-Mod and he runs the dinkyest little joke of a radiator you have ever seen and with his alky-motor he still has to put a t-stat in it to get it up to temp.

That being said, we did notice when we went from the single to double we did drop about 5* on a cool night and we see about a 15* difference on hot nights than what our single did. we did see an increase in the volume of fluid we put in by 1/2 gallon or just a little more. so if nothing else we gained extra water capacity, which helps with cooling too.

[sj valley dave]

Take the following for what it's worth. We run a DLM with a 819 hp SB2.2 on gas. CV 15% reduction pulleys, Adams pump, 28-32 lb cap, 4 blade GM fan, 1/2 in 1/2 out of a decent shroud, Howe double pass radiator and we have to run 2-3 rows of duct tape on a 105* day to keep engine at 200* On a cold night we will have 5 rows of tape on it...We always ran a racing thermostat on our other engines, but the SB2.2 intake manifold does not have the machined groove for one and the engine builder said run with out restrictor or thermostat...2 years now...

[Egoracing]

the theory behind it is that the water has the ability to go through the top half of the radiator first, then back trough the bottom half second, therefore increasing the amount of time it has to cool before it goes back through the motor.
The part that most people fail to realize is that the water has to be moving more than 2 times faster through a double pass to get the same amount of water flow as a single pass as it is running through smaller passages and has to turn a 180 degree U-turn that has dead spots in the corners that will not flow. So in reality it is actually in the radiator less. I think the benefit most people see from using one is they do not have a properly designed system and the double or triple pass creates a restriction that allows the pump to create back pressure in the system.

[rubbinsracin]

i completely agree Ego. we always ran a single pass a had almost no problems until it got busted by having something go right through it. im just stating what we saw just by simply swapping a single out for a double pass with no other changes. oh and i guess we had to buy a swivel neck for the radiator hose on the intake. we had a properly designed/running system before. and now we have a properly designed/running system now. im just stating that with our combo provides a little better cooling. especially on warmer days.

sj valley dave, im sure that there are better systems out there. just telling you what we do. we run not run it restricted or a t-stat either. as living_truth said, its a heck of a lot easier to keep an aluminum motor cool. heck its easier to keep just an aluminum head motor cool.

[jsw444]

thank u for all the replys great stuff i looked at 1 of the faster cars this weekend he had a pro power with an adams pump afco radiator with a shroud running on 114 vp fuel he was 200 all night thats what im looking for i did retard the timing a little last night noticed it was right at 34 degrees so i cut it back to 32 that should help a little we will see!!! might not need a pump if i add a shroud !!!!!!! thanks guys jeff

[rubbinsracin]

before i dialed back the timing id take a day and fab up some kind of shroud or spend a few bucks on a good shroud. be the best money you ever spent. i bet you see a 10-20* difference w/ a shroud.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRE-34307/

[sj valley dave]

What kind of cylinder heads do you have? Ignition timing really varies with head design. The more efficient the head, the less timing you need for HP. With our SB2.2 heads they made the most power at 30.5 degrees....

[jsw444]

i have dart pro 1 heads ultra dyne 4/7 swap cam with 15.5 to 1 compression also i realized for whatever reason i only have a 15 inch 4 blade fan on there what does everybody else run that could be the problems thanks jeff ps the fan on my truck is 18 inch !!!! lol might be a problem lol

[sj valley dave]

We run the GM 4 blade fan...I think it is either 18" or 19"...

[jsw444]

thanks for reply im ordering an 18 inch 4 blade tomm already rained out this week so im good!!!