better platform? Cavaliers or Neons?

[badmojoracing]

It seems around my area cavaliers are the only thing people are running? Yet I ear and see that neons are all over just not where i'm at? This will probably spark a debate but which platform is more competitive or are they both about even?

[boportt]

purty hard to beet an ecotech

[boportt]

i dunno u got the internet friken look up 2.2 chevy ecotec and u can figger it out

[badmojoracing]

So more research and they appear about dead even - of course that assumes you eliminate the sport models that came with (Neon 2.4L or the Cav 2.4L) so basically comparing the 2.0L SOHC/DOHC to the 2.2L Ecotec - Both are nearly identical (depends on the year and package) all between 130hp/130 T to 145hp/150 T.

The neon is 300 pounds lighter (of course thats hard to say if that difference holds after you strip them). Assume it does.

Both have similar trannys - final ratios 3.54 - 3.94 +/-.

I am not sure about the suspension??? Which has the advantage?

Both are rather available... Different parts of the country seems to have one platform doing better than the other then back the other way.

Seems like two pretty competitive vehicles.

Both have a lot of aftermarket go fast parts (but in most classes that cheating).

More thoughts?

[snsracing18]

Everybody has there own opinion I have a buddy who is 1st or 2nd every night and any track he goes to hands down. And he races a 96 sunfire and a 98 cavalier both with only the 2.2 and 5 speed. But my other buddy's 98 2.0 dohc took 2 track championships this year and 2 the year before. And both seasons were different drivers. I prefer the neon

[jshake]

i believe the neon is out horsed but I like the independent rear suspension the neon on has better then the straight suspension. most of the one i see that end up on there top are not independent suspension. not as much give seen allot of hubs break off.

[tricknology]

The criteria for selecting a make and model car as a potential candidate to build as a Stock 4 cylinder racer is...

#1) It must be,,, Late model (Less than about 10 years Old), Low mileage (lhpoefully less than 80,000 miles), Locally available in large numbers,
and costs less than $500 to purchase.

#2) It must be easy to fix, you should be able to pull the engine and trans without needing a hoist. Many cars (GM) the engine and trans come out the bottom and you need to use a car hoist, this is no good for a local racer.

#3) It must have great parts interchange between model years...a 2005 engine should work in a 1995 car. On many cars such as a Cavalier, a 1998 engine will not work in a 1997 and older car.

#4) it must have a powerful engine from the factory that is durable (won’t blow up).

#5) It must be relatively light in weight.

#6) it must be easy to change the gearing to get the optimum ratio for your track. On many cars such as GM, you have to remove the trans from the car and disassemble the trans to change the gearing,,,lots of work, time and money.

#7) it must handle well, it should be easy to adjust the camber. On some cars, like a Tempo, it is very difficult to change the camber settings. On a Dodge, you just install smaller O. D. bolts in the Steering knuckle to shock strut mounting holes.

#8) Parts must be Cheap due to plentiful supplies of cars in the Local Junkyards.


In the Midwest, the car that meets ALL these criteria is the 1995 to 1999 FOUR DOOR 2.0-liter SOHC dodge NEON.

In other parts of the country, the Honda is much more plentiful and it would be the car to run,,, but here in the Midwest,,, The best bang for the buck is the 1995 to 1999 FOUR DOOR 2.0 liter SOHC dodge NEON.

/////

so it depends on your location, and how much money you want to spend, and if you have a hoist.

Getting the gearing right is the #1 thing you can do be fast down the straight,,,some cars have stock gearing that works well at yoru track and some cars do not,,neons are the easy to get the gearing right. other cars it is tuff.

also the ford Focus is getting cheap, and they race them in europe. Might be the way to go soon.

when there are LOTS of Late model, low mileage, DOHC Cobalts and Dohc Ford Focus cars being sold at the insurance salvage pool auctions for about $500, and the local junk yards are filled with them, then you might want to build one. they may be too expensive to build compared to a NEON.

see this thread


http://spartanspeedway.com/OldBoardStuff/PonySpeedSecrets.html

ford focus info

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/

Neons info

http://forums.neons.org/index.php?sid=33c95705e43cfb8b2291c6c13a875a5f

cobalt

http://www.yourcobalt.com/forums/

http://www.j-body.org/forums/list.php?f=2

cobalt trans gear ratio info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag_F23_transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4T40-E_transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_transmissions

[tricknology]

ford fucus man trans gear ratios

http://forums.focaljet.com/shift/557126-gear-chart-getrag-ratios-mtx-75-gear-ratios-optional-axle-ratios.html


MORE FOCUS tech infor

http://forums.focaljet.com/

[tricknology]

GM ecotec info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine

[Avenger00]

Any thoughts on the newer style Preludes...they seem to be pretty fast, just tough to find.

[tricknology]

lots of tracks in the midwest Outlaw Hondas because they cost too much and would kill the class by being lots faster than the cheaper cars.

Hondas also have variable cam timming, traction control, a trick differential that speeds up the out side tire under acceleration when turning to reduce push. all of which are not allowed at most tracks

but if your track allows them they would be vary fast.

1997 to 2001 Honda Prelude

Honda redesigned its sport coupe for 1997. Again front-wheel drive with a 4-cylinder engine, Prelude rode a 1.4-inch longer wheelbase than before, and measured 3.2 inches longer overall. Curb weight rose by 145 pounds. Interior dimensions changed only slightly, but trunk space expanded by nearly one cubic foot. Basic 2-door notchback styling continued from the 1992-96 generation, but traditional analog gauges replaced vacuum-fluorescent instruments. Only base and SH editions went on sale, each equipped with a 2.2-liter 4-cylinder that employed Honda's variable-valve-timing technology. Running on premium fuel, the engine developed 195 horsepower with 5-speed manual shift, but only 190 horses when equipped with an automatic transmission. Offered only on base Preludes, the automatic transmission gained a new manual-shift feature, called Sequential SportShift. The gear selector lever could be left in Drive for regular automatic shifting, or tipped forward or backward to permit manual gear selection.The SH model went on sale first,

equipped with a new Honda-developed system designed to combat the tendency of front-drive cars to plow, or understeer, when accelerating through a turn. Called the Active Torque Transfer System, it automatically distributed more of the engine's power to outside front wheels when accelerating in a turn. That forced the outside front wheel to rotate up to 15 percent faster than the inside front wheel. The system could direct up to 80 percent of engine torque to a single wheel.

Dual airbags and four-wheel disc brakes were standard on both models, incorporating antilocking. Each model rode 16-inch tires.

more at,,

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1997-to-2001-honda-prelude-8.htm

[bodontknowdiddly]

The criteria for selecting a make and model car as a potential candidate to build as a Stock 4 cylinder racer is...

#1) It must be,,, Late model (Less than about 10 years Old), Low mileage (lhpoefully less than 80,000 miles), Locally available in large numbers,
and costs less than $500 to purchase.

#2) It must be easy to fix, you should be able to pull the engine and trans without needing a hoist. Many cars (GM) the engine and trans come out the bottom and you need to use a car hoist, this is no good for a local racer.

#3) It must have great parts interchange between model years...a 2005 engine should work in a 1995 car. On many cars such as a Cavalier, a 1998 engine will not work in a 1997 and older car.

#4) it must have a powerful engine from the factory that is durable (won’t blow up).

#5) It must be relatively light in weight.

#6) it must be easy to change the gearing to get the optimum ratio for your track. On many cars such as GM, you have to remove the trans from the car and disassemble the trans to change the gearing,,,lots of work, time and money.

#7) it must handle well, it should be easy to adjust the camber. On some cars, like a Tempo, it is very difficult to change the camber settings. On a Dodge, you just install smaller O. D. bolts in the Steering knuckle to shock strut mounting holes.

#8) Parts must be Cheap due to plentiful supplies of cars in the Local Junkyards.


In the Midwest, the car that meets ALL these criteria is the 1995 to 1999 FOUR DOOR 2.0-liter SOHC dodge NEON.

In other parts of the country, the Honda is much more plentiful and it would be the car to run,,, but here in the Midwest,,, The best bang for the buck is the 1995 to 1999 FOUR DOOR 2.0 liter SOHC dodge NEON.

/////

so it depends on your location, and how much money you want to spend, and if you have a hoist.

Getting the gearing right is the #1 thing you can do be fast down the straight,,,some cars have stock gearing that works well at yoru track and some cars do not,,neons are the easy to get the gearing right. other cars it is tuff.

also the ford Focus is getting cheap, and they race them in europe. Might be the way to go soon.

when there are LOTS of Late model, low mileage, DOHC Cobalts and Dohc Ford Focus cars being sold at the insurance salvage pool auctions for about $500, and the local junk yards are filled with them, then you might want to build one. they may be too expensive to build compared to a NEON.

see this thread


http://spartanspeedway.com/OldBoardStuff/PonySpeedSecrets.html

ford focus info

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/

Neons info

http://forums.neons.org/index.php?sid=33c95705e43cfb8b2291c6c13a875a5f

cobalt

http://www.yourcobalt.com/forums/

http://www.j-body.org/forums/list.php?f=2

cobalt trans gear ratio info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag_F23_transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4T40-E_transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_transmissions

Blah, blah blah!!!!!

[tricknology]

one issue with the ford focus is camber adjustment.

you would have to lengthen the rf lower control arm and shorten the lf lower control arm.

see picture

http://www.parts.com/schematics/mechanical/FHP060.gif

[return to dirt]

there are different ways to change the camber on focus's and other cars with the same type suspension. have seen it done for 40+ years.

olin

[tricknology]

there are different ways to change the camber on focus's and other cars with the same type suspension. have seen it done for 40+ years.

olin

Please share the ways you have seen it done,

thanks.

[return to dirt]

the most common way was to bend the strut tube itself. you use to be able to get tools to bend them. this wasn't approved by the car companies or the aftermarket parts makers but it was done a lot at independent alignment shops to correct camber. for more race type uses the strut top plate could be modified or replaced with a different makes plate. you could also modify the unibody mount area to allow repositioning of the top plate. you could also bend the knuckle itself.

olin