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View Full Version : rear end gets hot....to hot to touch.....



rubbinsracin
08-17-2011, 11:39 AM
I went to crawl under the rearend after we finished this week and we loaded it on the trailer and i went underneath the rearend to strap it down to the trailer (my dad normally does this) and i grabbed onto the backside of the quickchange where the gears go and i burnt my hand pretty good. after i yelped like a scared puppy my dad said, "you touched the pumpkin didnt you?" this is a newly rebuilt rearend for this year and have had no problems with it at all. but im guessing we have to much fluid in the darn thing after seeing this below. we always just dumped some in and called it good. never checked the fill plug, just figured the more the merrier i guess lol.

why would too much fluid cause excess heating?

if the fluid level is correct, is this type of heat normal after a 25 lap feature and 15 minute wait before we loaded it?

http://www.cmwraceparts.com/d/Winters-FAQ.pdf

of course tonight when i get home im going to open the fill plug and see how much pours out and ill report back.

BTDT
08-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Pull the back plate and check the bearings for drag. I found the cover slightly twisted and it was putting the bearing in a bind. replaced the cover fixed the problem.

The way you can tell if it is the cover or the bearing pull the bearing out and check it. I ordered a bearing first and it was a mistake.:cool:

scrub_fan
08-17-2011, 07:23 PM
the fill plug is over full if you look on the front side of the right axle you will see a plug a little below the fill/inspection plug this is the fill level

zeke23z
08-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Only reason i can think to much fluid would cause heat is its not being tossed around as much,just sits as gears spin less fluid gets pulled up and then falls back down.Just a thought.

Egoracing
08-17-2011, 09:43 PM
Also, to much oil could be aerating and the air is keeping it from covering the gears and cooling them.

car23
08-17-2011, 10:03 PM
most rearends hold one gallon of oil. if u have too much my experience is it blows it out the breather. i fill mine through the breather tube so i know minr is not clogged. be sure to check your tube with the rearend hanging and be sure it isnt crimping some shut. try to check it with a temp gun and get an accurate temp. your seals will give up if its over 260 deg. at 180 deg u should be able to hold your hand on it for 3 sec before u have to pull it off. i would suggest dumping it and putting in a gall of amsoil. or a quality oil.

rubbinsracin
08-18-2011, 02:17 PM
we checked the site plug and it was just at the fill line. Im guessing that the heat we were at was normal. we took the cover off and double checked all the bearings and such and they looked ok. it hasnt taken any hits or anything so im guessing were ok. as my dad said, i must just be a sissy. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) desk job anyways lol.

joedoozer
08-18-2011, 08:40 PM
most rearends hold one gallon of oil. if u have too much my experience is it blows it out the breather. i fill mine through the breather tube so i know minr is not clogged. be sure to check your tube with the rearend hanging and be sure it isnt crimping some shut. try to check it with a temp gun and get an accurate temp. your seals will give up if its over 260 deg. at 180 deg u should be able to hold your hand on it for 3 sec before u have to pull it off. i would suggest dumping it and putting in a gall of amsoil. or a quality oil.

One Gallon? I hope you mean one quart.

Greaseman
08-18-2011, 09:06 PM
We have ran 1 gallon in all of our rearends. Using one quart would eventually cause problems.

talclipse
08-18-2011, 09:29 PM
We have ran 1 gallon in all of our rearends. Using one quart would eventually cause problems.

I'm betting "eventually" is more like after a heat race every gear and bearing would be a nice shade of blue. I believe winters and all most the other manufacturers recommend right at 2" below the inspection plug. Whenever I drain the fluid I just make sure to get out as much as I can and throw a gallon in it and its right. I think you drain out around a quart when changing gears though?

Greaseman
08-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Yeah you drain around a quart out. We always pour what we drain out back in and after every season we drain it and put new fluid in. It will be just a touch shy of a gallon after we drain all the fluid out.

Egoracing
08-18-2011, 09:57 PM
Actually, Tiger I think, put a quick change in a 300 lap race with 1 qt of synthetic oil in it and ran it like that a long time after only using 1qt of lube in the whole rearend.

car23
08-18-2011, 10:03 PM
i set up diffs for arca racing and about every other thing there is. i have set up reducers with ring gears in the 3 ft range. i know the winters takes 1 gallon of oil and by my own experience u dont loose a quart everytime u change your gears in your quick change. i used to just put a quart in instead of putting the oil that came out back in because of contamination at the track. thats how i found out that i kept adding a little bit too much and finally it blew out the vent. u can check the pinion area with a temp gun and then check the bell area to possibly see maybe
where your heat is coming from. i have fixed a number of quick changes over the years. i just replaced the ring & pinion in one 3 months ago and richmond gear is the only manufacturer of this gear. u can pull your axles out and take your drive shaft out and turn the pinion by hand and see if everything seems to be smooth turning or a little rough. trust me and replace bearings before u tear up a lot more. the pion bearing is a pain to deal with but there is no shimming to adjust ring and pinion the gears are made to correct specs if u need any assistance just give me call greg 864 378 3564

Egoracing
08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
the pion bearing is a pain to deal with but there is no shimming to adjust ring and pinion the gears are made to correct specs if u need any assistance just give me call greg 864 378 3564

That is not correct, you shim the spool to set the play on the ring and pinion. The shims go between the bearing and the spool and move the whole spool side to side. If you have not been using them then you have been setting them up incorrectly. Look at page 7 in the winters closed tube rearends section and the shims are item #10. Page 114 has the information on how to set the ring and pinion.

Page 120 plainly says to much oil will cause it to overheat and it shows the correct level to fill the rear to. The ONLY time I have seen them blow oil out of the breather is when to small of a hose was used for the breather or no breather tank was used to catch the oil.

AmickRacing
08-19-2011, 12:46 AM
I've never taken the temp of my rear end before, but I know it gets pretty warm. After a heat race and before a main, when you grab the old gears out you better be quick because it'll hurt if you're not. Never really smells like burnt oil though (when all is well anyway).

For the most part we don't change gears at the track, so when we do it in the shop we just add what comes out. But we carry some pint containers so we can dump one in after a change at the track. Never measured how much oil ours holds, just add it via the sight hole to the proper level from a 5 gallon bucket.

We've always used 80-90, heard of some people using old engine oil, or some other kinda fluid. Can't say I've seen many rearends die due to improper oiling, guess crash's must take them out more.

rubbinsracin
08-19-2011, 09:15 AM
yeah, our 80-90 has never smelled burnt, and because we race a 1/4 track once a month and a 3/8 mile track every week during the month we switch gears regularly, but i always do it the next day and we have never noticed how hot the things get. when we change gears we use a jumbo pitcher(like for making tea in) and just dump the oil back in that came out, then we go ahead an pour just a little more in from a new bottle, because we cant get all the 80-90 out of the pitcher of course.

joedoozer
08-19-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm betting "eventually" is more like after a heat race every gear and bearing would be a nice shade of blue. I believe winters and all most the other manufacturers recommend right at 2" below the inspection plug. Whenever I drain the fluid I just make sure to get out as much as I can and throw a gallon in it and its right. I think you drain out around a quart when changing gears though?

I was (or wasn't) thinking of how much came out when you pulled the cover. Total brain fart.

On a side note. Walmart sells ice cream in 5 quart buckets. Sometimes round and sometimes square. These are great for changing the oil in rearends and transmissions. And for changing gears. You can fold the bucket and makes it easier to pour the oil back in. And they are white inside so it makes it easier to see if you have anything floating in the oil. I heard someone mention the pitcher idea, thought I would share my ice cream bucket one.

rubbinsracin
08-19-2011, 01:10 PM
I heard someone mention the pitcher idea, thought I would share my ice cream bucket one.

we also used an icecream bucket before we got a pitcher. went to the pitcher because we kept bending the bucket and the top would crack and make it go everywhere. if you dont change gears much its works great. but because we change quite frequently we invested a few bucks in something that shouldnt break....key word...shouldnt.... lol

talclipse
08-19-2011, 02:50 PM
I was (or wasn't) thinking of how much came out when you pulled the cover. Total brain fart.

On a side note. Walmart sells ice cream in 5 quart buckets. Sometimes round and sometimes square. These are great for changing the oil in rearends and transmissions. And for changing gears. You can fold the bucket and makes it easier to pour the oil back in. And they are white inside so it makes it easier to see if you have anything floating in the oil. I heard someone mention the pitcher idea, thought I would share my ice cream bucket one.
I figured that's what you were thinking. Didn't mean to sound like I was busting your balls.

car23
08-21-2011, 12:35 AM
i check patterns on all the diffs i dont go buy a certain parameters. the winters diffs i have done had awesome patterns on them (using shims that were already in place). the last one i did had no shims to be found. pattern looked good backlash was within .002 of the other one. i had looked back at my notes from where i had checked the rearend before while replacing some axle tubes. (you never know what u will encounter when setting up diffs.) i have sent gears back that just wouldnt get me what i wanted to see in patterns. i have set the same gear up in different housings and have a totally different look. i have not had a race failure on any of my arca rearends. they have broke a couple of pinions on pit road though. lol

parrot69777
08-21-2011, 04:56 PM
Actually, Tiger I think, put a quick change in a 300 lap race with 1 qt of synthetic oil in it and ran it like that a long time after only using 1qt of lube in the whole rearend.

I read that article too. However they used some type of oil treatment in with it. Can't remember what they called it but I tried to find it and no one had ever heard of it or could tell you where to buy it. Couldn't get Tiger to respond to any communications about it either.

Egoracing
08-21-2011, 07:54 PM
I read that article too. However they used some type of oil treatment in with it. Can't remember what they called it but I tried to find it and no one had ever heard of it or could tell you where to buy it. Couldn't get Tiger to respond to any communications about it either.

Was it an additive or a metal process? I could not remember. If it is a process and it is theirs they probably call it something even if is a common process that is used in 100 other applications called something else.

parrot69777
08-21-2011, 08:03 PM
It was a metal treatment called FR85.


http://www.circletrack.com/drivetraintech/ctrp_0902_quick_change_rear_end/index.html

Egoracing
08-22-2011, 07:02 AM
I worked in maint at a seafood mfg plant once and we used a BRIGHT red gear lube in the gear boxes in the production area. It was in the area of $200 a gallon and that was in the mid 90's. The stuff would not mix with water, it would climb anything that moved (A pencil dipped in and spun between your fingers would cause it to climb up the pencil and if you spun it hard enough it would go all the way to your fingers) and if you put some on a piece of steel and heated the other end with a tourch it would thin and move to the hot spot. I have tried to find it several times after but the company that made it is no longer in business and the company that bought them quit making it due to cost.
After it was run the something and it warmed up the metal would have a red tint that would only come off if you machined it off. We used some in out modifieds back then and using it in the 9 inch we ran we only used about 1/2 the amount of normal lube and it could be filtered and reused.