Steering Box Question

[LM14]

We run a Metric Impala stub and stock Impala boxes (16:1) with a 2:1 speeder. Our pitman arm is 5.5" long (metric stubs with a 605 box are 6.5") and the steering arm on the spindles is 6.5" (Pintos are 5.25"). We are looking at 12:1 Sweet boxes for both of our cars and this raises a question.

Both of our drivers come from Chevelle stub with Pinto steering arm cars or metric stubs with 605 boxes and 2:1 speeders and are not comfortable with the slower steering of the Impala setup. What OEM box would have the same bolt pattern as a 800 series box, 3/4" steering input shaft and take the same pitman arm as our Impala box? I see the Sweet boxes are listed as 700 series. All you see advertised anywhere are 605 and 800 boxes. Did the 700 series come in a production vehicle?

We're trying to replicate the steering feel of the driver's former cars. We're open to suggestions. Anyone?

Thanks,
SPark

[racin6mod]

the saginaw 700 series or big gm box was used in a lot of gm cars up threw 77 it has a 4 bolt top cover and an 1-1/8th 32 spline pitman arm shaft.delphi make a 600 series box with a 14:1 ratio with a 3/4-30 spline shaft to replace the 700 and 800 box .

[JustAddDirt]

probably a Sweet 8-1 or a 6-1 box would give the same feel as the setup they are used to.

[papa]

what are most guys running for steering ratio?

[stillfast]

Trans Am and Z-28 Camaro had faster 12 to 1 ratio. With a 2 to 1 quickener it would be 6 to 1. Sweet has an 8 to 1 and a 6 to 1 box (about $700).

[papa]

what ratio are of some of the rack pionion latemodels runs

[FLYNBRYAN]

Have the pinto spindle arms welded up and remachined off center. the only issue with that is you might some small ackerman issues.

[LM14]

We run the Impala spindles, not Pinto.

What year TA/Z28 boxes?

Thanks for the replys.

SPark

[FLYNBRYAN]

Use pinto spindles if you can, unless the MC won't work , have the impala welded up and re drilled.

[28m]

I have a jet with the impala front clip. I ordered a box from jet, took a box off a chevelle clip and ordered two boxes thru NAPA that were all slow and had too much driver input need for my liking. I finally found a box from NAPA. It was for a 63 Impala. This box is awesome with a very light input needed. I like an easy steering car. I found the part number...PS 391073

[stillfast]

For the 800 series box, 70-81 Trans Am and Z-28.

[dirty white boy]

That box can vary greatly in ratio and its supposed to be a 14-1. 12-1 came in cars with a certain handling package.

The casting number is what I used to go by until I had a different feel in my car and checked all my boxes I had 2.5-3.75 ratio boxes that all had the same number and should have been the same.

2.5 is the turns from lock to lock the box itself in a vise with no quickener. Ive got a advanced auto parts number for these if you want it. Its the fastest Ive found over the counter.


Here I found this.

The standard 17.5:1 steering ratio (four turns lock-to-lock) was used on these units through the 1960s, but a more responsive 14.4:1 ratio (31/2 turns lock-to-lock) became the normal power steering ratio in 1970 on the full-size models. The 14.4:1 ratio replaced the earlier 17.5:1 ratio completely by 1973 for all body styles. Some 1967-'76 F-, A- and G-body Chevrolets also used a 12.7:1 (also 3½ turns), which will interchange as well. These 12.7:1 units are the most popular units for a quick-ratio conversion because of their ease of conversion into other models.

A 14.0:1 unit, which was used on the two-wheel drive S-10 pickup and Blazer models from 1982-'93, will also interchange. You will also find these 14.0:1 ratio units on many Jeep models and some full-size GM cars. Another option is to use the even later model G- or F-body units. They were original equipment on 1983-'88 Chevelles and El Caminos, 1984-'88 Monte Carlos, 1983-'84 Hurst/Olds, 1985-'87 Olds 442s, and 1984-'87 Buick Grand Nationals or T-Types. They are 12.7:1 units, however, and they're not easy to find, as they were used on performance suspension options in many applications. They can be identified by a "YA," "WS," or "HX" marking on the end cap opposite where the steering column attaches. These units will reduce steering wheel revolutions from lock to lock down to 2¼ to 2¾ turns.



It appears the boxes Ive been using are as fast as you can get as they are in the 2.25-2.75 range lock to lock! They call them 12.7-1agree with all you said sept,...show me a 83-88 chevelle?????????

[dirty white boy]

thats info I copy pasted.

chevelle equals malibu those years

i thought type0 an was meaning the 73 to 78 chevelles but could be the malibu's like you suggested....2 1/4 is good as OME got an hard to find an harder to afford,..2 3/4 lil easyer to find an not much cheaper,...have herd roumers of a I-ROC box that was 1 3/4 turn but never actually seen one!

[TeamGRT12x]

I've never noticed much difference from the different boxes. I just stick with the 605 and a 2-1 Quickener. I"m really not concerned with an eight of a turn on the wheel one way or the other.

[LM14]

When your driver drives 2 cars and one has 1 turn stop to stop (stock car) and the other has 1.75 turns stop to stop (mod) it's a huge difference. Both of these with a 2:1 speeder. He runs the 605 box on his stock car but that won't work on the mod, no pitman arm that will fit the Impala stub. This whole mess has to stay IMCA legal, too.

We have a second car for another driver with the same problem. He also hated the slow steering and he has a ton of experience in mods.

Don't want to go to the Pinto spindles. The bump steer is awful with the Impala stub and is almost perfect with the stock sindles. It would speed up the steering a bit but not worth the bump steer issues.

Jeff, what's the number on the box you found?

Thanks all,
SPark

[TeamGRT12x]

I've never owned a car that was 1 turn lock to lock. Mostly 1.5 turns lock to lock. I don't really pay attention. I would put a sweet box on there if it is a huge problem but most of the stuff I run is 8-1 with the quickener and 605 box.

Why can't you put the correct pittman arm on a 605 for an Impala? We did it back in 03 with a Kraft Kar. Everything was IMCA Legal as well.

[stock car driver]

sg a16561

advanced auto parts

[LM14]

Jeff,

What is your steering effort like with that box and a 2:1 speeder?

Thanks,
SPark

[TeamGRT12x]

Are you on a KSE pump? I'm confused as to whether you're looking for a faster steering or an easier steering now.

[LM14]

We want close to 1 turn lock to lock, with a 2:1 speeder. Fast but light effort.

The problem is you can get to the point you overwhelm the pump output with the speed of the box being doubled. Sweet site says to use their lightest valve with their 12:1 box and a 2:1 speeder of the feel will be very heavy.

We have Sweet pumps on both cars.

Thanks,
SPark

[stock car driver]

krc pumps with alum canister attatched are what I use and that box and 2-1 on metric spindles.

It feels fine for me. I believe you can change the valve in the aluminum ps pumps to change the feel... Ive never done that and not sure how to describe feel. I feel I have a good feeling for the steering because I noticed the difference on the track between a 2.5 and 3.5 box right away.

[LM14]

Thanks, Jeff. I ordered one last night, got 15% off plus free shipping!

Saw you run at Bloomfield this summer, you had a pretty good night so your steering must have been working fine!

SPark

[stock car driver]

Thanks, Jeff. I ordered one last night, got 15% off plus free shipping!

Saw you run at Bloomfield this summer, you had a pretty good night so your steering must have been working fine!

SPark

Did you order it from Advanced or someplace else? Will you still get the lifetime warranty?

Bloomfied was easily the biggest win Ive had in my opinion. Some very tough cars in the field and all 5-6 that started in front of me were multi time champions.. I thought about selling everything for a few days after that win.

I junked my car out the next race night, took it to the scrap yard, lol.

[LM14]

Used Advance like you recommended. Should have it Monday to try out!

SPark

[stock car driver]

Used Advance like you recommended. Should have it Monday to try out!

SPark

I always put them in the vise and confirm they are 2.5 or so turns lock to lock. It took me a dozen boxes ordered in to get the fastest one originally, so far this number has always been correct from Advanced, but I had Napa cross this number once and the box that came was 3.25 lock to lock.

[Dirtrunner35]

GM/Saginaw quick-ratio steering box donor car cheat sheet

Late Model 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearbox ID markings YA, WS and HX Line Thread Size: M18x1.5 and M16x1.5 Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern) Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½ - 3 1984-'88 Monte Carlo/Malibu with Z65 suspension 1983-'88 Malibu, El Camino 1982-'92 Camaro except FE1 soft ride suspension 1984-'87 Regal with FE2 or FE3 sport suspension 1983-'84 Hurst/Olds 1985-'87 Cutlass with 5.0 (VIN code 9) 1982-'85 Trans Am 1986-'92 Firebird except FE1 suspension 1986-'87 Grand Prix with FE2 touring or F41 heavy duty suspension

Pre-'76 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearbox Line Thread Size: 11/16 x 18 and 5/8 x 18 Number of Mounting Holes: 4, (H-pattern) Input Shaft Diameter: 13/16-inch Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½ - 3 1967-'76 Camaro, Firebird 1970-'76 Monte Carlo/Malibu 1964-'76 Chevelle

1977-'79 12.7:1 quick-ratio gearbox Line Thread Size: 11/16 x 18 and 5/8 x 18 Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern) Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 2 ½- 3 1977-'79 Camaro, Firebird 1977-'79 Monte Carlo, Malibu 1977-'79 Chevelle

Jeep/S-10 14.0:1 quick ratio gearbox Line Thread Size: M18x1.5 and M16x1.5 Number of Mounting Holes: 3, (missing leg H-pattern) Input Shaft Diameter: ¾-inch Output Shaft Diameter: 1 ¼-inch Number of Turns Lock to Lock: 3 - 3 ½ 1991-'92 Fleetwood 1992-'95 Grand Cherokee 1984-'93 Comanche 1984-'95 Cherokee/Wagoneer 1983-'86 Bonneville 1982-'93 2WD S-10 Blazer and pickup

[Dirtrunner35]

sg a16561

advanced auto parts

What vehicle does that fit ? The # 1282 is 2.5 turns lock to lock

[Dirtrunner35]

I don't buy junk yard parts either, 1282 is advance part number for a gear box with 2. 5 half turn lock to lock