shock issue

[propit21]

got a little shock problem here maybe some of you can help with. Been reasearching shock to buy for the car, and different vavling. I have a couple steve smith setup books and been reading online at basic handling guides, and got a little confussion and what some of them are saying.
If you go with a stiffer RF compression shock will that help with a turn entry tight condition? i know there are other condition that goes into play but the book says it will tighten entry and online basic handling guides from most car builders say it will help a turn entry tight condition.

[frontrunner]

Is this a 4bar car???

[propit21]

3 link car, with j-bar and pullbar

[Dirtrunner35]

Stiffer compression will make a car tighter on entry.

[Graff Spee]

Just remember that Steve Smith is not a driver, he is just a writer. Same goes for Mark Bush. Some food for thought.

[propit21]

if you look at a few of these guides it says for tight entry for RF shock more compression

http://www.thedirtforum.com/shawadjguide.htm

http://www.flexiflyer.net/setup.htm

i know its for a four link but still
http://integrashocksandsprings.com/general/assets/PDFs/4LinkDirtSuspensionShockTuningGd.pdf

http://www.jetracinginc.com/files/online_setup_manual.pdf (page 13)

[propit21]

does mark bush have a book out other then his class. good reading from some i have seen online, up to date, and well explained.

[Graff Spee]

I have a couple of his class books. I think I have 04 and 08 that are extra from the class.

[Dirtrunner35]

Is your car loose now going in ???

[propit21]

no not really, used to be really tight going in but soften the left front spring and its help, entry is a bit tight and middle has a skating tight condition.

[steveshawjr]

have you tryed more stagger for entry and center.

3000lb 3link here

lf 4 comp 5 rebound , 5 comp 4 rebound
lr 7comp 3 rebound , rr 3 comp 5 rebound

lr lower 6" off botom of frame rr level to 1 inch up

j bar even at pinion 11" off botom to frame to chassis

900lf 1000rf
250lr 175rr
lr in front of rear end rr on top

1-2 inch stagger in front 4-6 in rear depends on the track ( hossier lm 20s 11 inch wide)

left 53
cross 52.
rear 54


thats our base its been the same for 4 seasons all we do now it play with psi because we are right in the ballpark in any condition

[propit21]

try some stuff for the heat race last weekend that didn't work, a little info 15" LR trailing arm mount static at 16 degrees up hill, RR 20" trailing arm mounted level, 1/4" of trail. shock are all compression/rebound LF 5/3 RF 6 LR 7/4 RR 6, J bar even with pinion with 4 1/2" inch in mounting distance from pinion to frame. track was rough and tacky. Car would not handle in the corners at all, went in loose, car would hike up then come down drift and had no drive off the corners. 3 inches of stagger, 49 % cross with 100 lbs of bit, rear 54% and left 54%.

Main event change the lr trailing arm back to around 11 or 12 degree of up hill angle static and but trail back at 1/4" shocks went to LF 5/3 RF 7/4 LR 4 and RR 6 everything else stay the same, car was ten times better and driveable (side note lacking horsepower compared to others) track was still tacky but not as ruff, last few laps started to have some slick spots on turn exits. driver states after main little loose going in but rolled front brake and made it better but mid corner was stable with good drive off just lacking horsepower.

[propit21]

need some more help please..

say track is your basic track not heavy and not slicked off yet.

car is loose in tight in the middle when throttle is applied. if i don't change anything else then shocks what would help it

what would these number do? all shocks are compression first, rebound second
LF 5/3
RF 6/2
LR 7/4
RR 5

second set up
LF 5/3
RF 7/4
LR 4
RR 5

Third set up
LF 5/3
RF 4/6
LR 7/4 or straigt 4
RR 5

fourth set up
LF 5/3
RF 6
LR 4
RR 4
or does anyone have a setup within those number that may work well. Please help in a hole right now.

[RCJ]

if more front brake helped Check master clyinder sizes.Might try 7/8 front 1'' rear.If brakes are getting the car loose on entry shocks might help.. but will never solve the problems.i have increased r/r rebound to help loose entry but, each driver enters the corner different and has different ways of describing it you just have to try stuff and see what works.A throttle push can be from to much l/r drive.Take a little bite out will tighten entry and loosen the center.

[Dirtrunner35]

So the track had a little moisture ?? Fix entry first ! How is he driving the car in?, hitting the brakes making the car loose? or throwing the car in making it loose ? Where is he driving on the track on entry, in the moisture or in the slick spots? Maybe it's not a shock issue?

[dirt daddy]

When u put a 7/4 or a 6/2 lr or some like that its goin 2 get on the left rear faster on throttle & when u did have jus a 4 on lr u had 6/2 on the rf so u was kinda doin the same thang there

[RCJ]

I agree with stock car driver to a point.I would use 50r/30c on the front 40r/20c on the rear.
The reason for more rebound than compression is.In rebound the shock is working against the spring,in compression it is working with the spring.More reb. than comp. will work best in a rough track but is a good starting point.When you have the car working good then change shocks and let the drive tell you what works or doesn't.
Now if you are trying to use the shocks as hydraulic devises that lock down a corner of the car or hold it up.That is a different program.

[propit21]

thanks for the imput, i do agree with straight valves and that what we have had on the car for the most part and it was good, but then looked for some more speed and started with shocks and now we are just looking for advise and what works and doesn't. Kinda need someone to say if you shock A here and shock B here then you will get this in the the car.

Right now the track is an average type track little tacky but not heavy. Off the gas going in the corner car is loose, or free feeling,(driver like a tighter feeling car on entry) then at mid corner when he picks up the trhottle it pushes which leads to loose off.

The best he like the car was with this set up of shocks LF 5/3 RF 4/6 LR 7/4, RR 5. Can anyone tell me why that might have been a good set up and why he liked it, it cause the car to be able to drive through mid corner and he said he could steer the car wherever he wanted but lacked foward drive.

check out the video here
watch the main.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AMLrandomvideo#p/u/18/hCzZriYanCI

[RCJ]

Hard to see on the video,I would call that loose on late entry.That is the piont when wieght is just starting to roll on to the r/s.A 5 or 6r on the r/r will hold the wieght in the r/r and keep the car from pivioting off the l/r as hard.This effects it when on the brakes and still fairly straght.3 or 2c on r/r will soften that corner when the wieght is starting to roll over on to the r/r keeping the car tighter.At corner apex the wieght is laying on the springs and the shocks have little effect

[DANNY]

I agree, only thing a shock does once the car rolls is controle how fast it rolls back once its all said and done... i found an easy up hard down (valving up to you) on the lr helps tighten the exit as far as entry we changed springs and ran a 3 for the right rear shock... Stock car driver was right keep it simple with the shocks especially in the front again thats what the springs are for..... Jmo dont chage alot at one time on a 3 link its enough of a handful as it is :) good luck