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View Full Version : Old Frame With Cracks Good or Not



Rosenbluth
11-09-2011, 12:11 PM
I got an 04 Mastersbilt that has ballpark 150 nites of weekly racing on it. From 2005 to 2011. Spec motor stuff on hard tires. Regardless, it has a lot of laps. It seems to not be the car that it used to be. Seems to not respond to changes like it used to. My guess is that it is flexing or such. There are also a few cracks forming here and there. My question is, can this frame be saved? Can I brace a few critical areas to get it rigid again to get another season out of this car? Like the car, just want to get it back to the way it was 2 or 3 years ago.

MasterSbilt_Racer
11-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Those old cars are bad about that. You can weld it all up, but I doubt it will be exactly the same ever again. I assume you have some cracks in the halo area? I would probably can it and be safe.

EAMShater
11-09-2011, 12:53 PM
I have always heard that about mastersbuilt cars. they are bad fast but they are throw away cars kinda. race it for a year win everything and get a new one. I'm not bashing em just what everyone has told me. This may not be a problem with their new cars.. Idk.. I've never truely looked at one up close to know how they're built. I know my Bwrc is built like a fortress. Which I think tends to hurt me a little. The 06 grt my buddy has will flew all kind of ways and they say when they start crackin they start really gettin fast and he just had to weld a few places back up and the car is pretty dang fast

Rosenbluth
11-09-2011, 12:56 PM
No cracks in the halo area. One of the motor plate tabs is cracked around the weld pretty bad. Then on the LR where the J-Bar sq tube meets the round frame rail is cracked. Just was curious if it is cracking because it is flexing so much, or if I can weld it up, maybe add a few bars to rigid it up and keep going. Safety wise, I think we are still ok.
Thanks

joedoozer
11-09-2011, 01:05 PM
A few races ago the track was really rough. And I had my LRU bar low on the B/C and a pretty aggressive J-bar angle. It was waaaaay leaned over on the RR and carrying the LF quite a bit. The following race the J-bar bracket on the pinion broke. During he repairs I noticed the same type of crack on the frame. At the bottom of the J-bar tower. My car is also old and I would guess fatigued. But I figured mine was because of the rough 2 weeks I had. It wasn't a big crack, just from about 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock. I welded it up and added a tubular gusset.

As long as the piece that is cracked isn't bent or twisted I think it's safe to weld it up and brace it. If the crack is on a bar that is not directly tied to a suspension part in some way, I would be more worried. For me cracking a weld in the center of the chassis on a random bar is a much bigger problem.

MasterSbilt_Racer
11-09-2011, 01:24 PM
No cracks in the halo area. One of the motor plate tabs is cracked around the weld pretty bad. Then on the LR where the J-Bar sq tube meets the round frame rail is cracked. Just was curious if it is cracking because it is flexing so much, or if I can weld it up, maybe add a few bars to rigid it up and keep going. Safety wise, I think we are still ok.
Thanks

Those don't bother me as much. That jbar mount crack is common. Look for cracks everywhere that gusset meets the frame rail in the bend on the lr. First time I saw a Smackdown car that piece of engineering made me go WTF? I knew it would crack there.

Just weld those up and keep an eye on them.

fox1162002
11-10-2011, 03:30 AM
The cracking is caused from some of the tubing being chromemoly I was told all top chassis builders use a certain amount in the chassis unless you order a full moly car. It welds a little different but the key on moly is after you weld it up and let it cool is to take a torch and reheat it until it turns blue this will reset the metal and not make it brittle. Mark Richards told me 2 years ago that they turn the temp up when they get a car powder coated. I've repaired several cars with cracks and reset the welds and they performed good the next year.

hpmaster
11-10-2011, 09:48 AM
As my cars got older I repaired and updated them every year. Welding cracks and replacing bent tubes and straightening them. With that said asking when it is time to scrap it is a very hard question to answer while looking at the chassis let alone from just what someone says in a 80 or 90 word statement. My view is that if you drive it all the time and when you can't correct it like you used to with adjustments that worked before you might be getting near the end. Steel of any type flexes and returns to it's shape constantly in all race cars. Like a metal hanger or any piece of metal it eventually wears out. It isn't just a crack or a simple bend, if it was we would be successfully updating everything forever. I ran leaf cars then swing arm and now 4 bar cars, they all die eventually. With the $2,000 dollar quick changes and motors from ridiculous, crate, to just plain stupid silly, open class motors, be in cheap on a new chassis that cost $6,000 doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are real tight on cash weld her up and question if you should be racing at all. I just bought a new chassis this summer so I am speaking from going thru the thought process. Problem is that running a chassis, no matter what it is, one year longer than you should can be the longest year of your racing life, been there done that.

MasterSbilt_Racer
11-10-2011, 12:06 PM
As my cars got older I repaired and updated them every year. Welding cracks and replacing bent tubes and straightening them. With that said asking when it is time to scrap it is a very hard question to answer while looking at the chassis let alone from just what someone says in a 80 or 90 word statement. My view is that if you drive it all the time and when you can't correct it like you used to with adjustments that worked before you might be getting near the end. Steel of any type flexes and returns to it's shape constantly in all race cars. Like a metal hanger or any piece of metal it eventually wears out. It isn't just a crack or a simple bend, if it was we would be successfully updating everything forever. I ran leaf cars then swing arm and now 4 bar cars, they all die eventually. With the $2,000 dollar quick changes and motors from ridiculous, crate, to just plain stupid silly, open class motors, be in cheap on a new chassis that cost $6,000 doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are real tight on cash weld her up and question if you should be racing at all. I just bought a new chassis this summer so I am speaking from going thru the thought process. Problem is that running a chassis, no matter what it is, one year longer than you should can be the longest year of your racing life, been there done that.

I agree 100%. You reach a point where the car just won't go like it used to.

powerslide
11-10-2011, 01:34 PM
But occasionally you get "that car" that seems unbeatable or very tough to get way off in left field on. Not sure if others believe it or not but i think some cars just come off the jig better. Back 3-4 years ago Dirt works wasnt doing much but this one car came along and won and won and won. The guy who was driving hadnt won alot before that car and someone offered him more than what the car was worth for it he sold it and got another and hasnt ever been as fast. That car kept on winning with its next two drivers. Unsure where it ended up but it was a fast old dirt works when dirt works was on the decline. So when do you get rid of "that car"?

MasterSbilt_Racer
11-10-2011, 02:07 PM
But occasionally you get "that car" that seems unbeatable or very tough to get way off in left field on. Not sure if others believe it or not but i think some cars just come off the jig better. Back 3-4 years ago Dirt works wasnt doing much but this one car came along and won and won and won. The guy who was driving hadnt won alot before that car and someone offered him more than what the car was worth for it he sold it and got another and hasnt ever been as fast. That car kept on winning with its next two drivers. Unsure where it ended up but it was a fast old dirt works when dirt works was on the decline. So when do you get rid of "that car"?

I raced against one of the early MasterS 4 link cars that was like that. It was unbeatable no matter who drove it until it finally was destroyed.

hpmaster
11-11-2011, 09:06 AM
But occasionally you get "that car" that seems unbeatable or very tough to get way off in left field on. Not sure if others believe it or not but i think some cars just come off the jig better. Back 3-4 years ago Dirt works wasnt doing much but this one car came along and won and won and won. The guy who was driving hadnt won alot before that car and someone offered him more than what the car was worth for it he sold it and got another and hasnt ever been as fast. That car kept on winning with its next two drivers. Unsure where it ended up but it was a fast old dirt works when dirt works was on the decline. So when do you get rid of "that car"?

When it quits winning and you can't adjust it. Until then run it till it drops, trouble is that last year that it quits winning isn't very fun. And they all do quit winning eventualy. There were some darn fast Howe #5 cars in the 1980's that ran both dirt and pavement for years, ain't been beat by one in a few years.