Having to switch to a z-link or 4L ZR setup...help!

[timcole421]

Hey guys,

I actually run a stock car, but am on a bar rear suspension. I ran a swingarm car all year set fairly neutral, and liked it quite a bit. Now the geniuses who write the rules decided that NO SWINGARM is allowed, and I have to switch to something else. Pretty much anything is legal, so long as it doesn't use eliminators, has no spring mount to the bars/arms, and you have to use a solid bisquit pull bar (24"). NOT happy about having to change, so I'd like to set something up that can be an improvement once dialed in and the driving is adjusted to it. Stupid question, what exactly does "clamped" refer to?

Here's some info on my previous setup:
Non-bearing style birdcages
58" 1" offset rear end.
Swingarm both sides, coil springs mounted to the forward, lower bar. 21" lower swingarm bars.
Panhard: Long bar - have J bar, have used it...but the long bar was more consistent and comfortable. Didn't like the short bar, at all.
Springs: 430L, 200R
Brake calipers mounted to birdcages
Wheelbase: 108
Weight: 3100 with driver
Chevelle clip
Left side has provisions for the upper 4 bar mount. Nothing lower - assuming that the lower 21" swingarm link was used as the lower to run a 4 bar on that side.

Tracks: Primarily semi banked, listed as 1/4 and 1/3 but both measure .28 with slightly different straight/turn lengths.

So now, here's what I've purchased to get the spring off the bar.....
LR - Pierce style clamp - mounts shock on rear of clamp, and spring in front of axle tube.
RR - BSB clamp on spring bucket - spring on top of housing.
I also ordered a clamp on shock mount for right rear, as mounting the shock to the birdcage causes rear bar to wipe out the shocks due to too much movement on the J bar or short bar.
Springs - thinking 200-225 on both sides of the rear.

I'm torn on running the above setup z-link/z-link to keep it as close to it was as possible, or go to the 4 bar left side right out of the box. Not sure if I can use the lower swingarm link that is there for the lower bar (again, I don't see any other mounting locations for the lower bar), and add the top bar to top of birdcage for the 4 link.

Sorry to be so long, and thanks in advance - dumbass rule changes thrown at me with NO warning in freaking march has me scrambling. I just got the thing flying at the end of the year, and have to start over again. http://www.4m.net/images/smilies/mad.png

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Run 4 bar/z link. Build a shortener to bolt in where your swingarm goes and find another anchor point to support it on the chassis.

[timcole421]

Run 4 bar/z link. Build a shortener to bolt in where your swingarm goes and find another anchor point to support it on the chassis.

That sounds like a good plan. Should the upper and lower 4 links be roughly the same length? Any advice on what this setup will be like to drive?

[rocketmod19]

i believe the average car has the lowers about 2- 3 inches shorter i would go with the 4 bar left and you could do a ton of stuff with but you said you have a spring bucet you could go witha z link with spring on top otr just the standard three link.

[timcole421]

And spring recommendations?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How long will your top link be? I would probably shoot for a 1.5 -2 in difference between the bars.

[dirttrackrocker]

I am baffled as to why they would outlaw swing arms, but, let you run a 4 link???? Thats just plain stupid......

[kencar87]

I am baffled as to why they would outlaw swing arms, but, let you run a 4 link???? Thats just plain stupid...... Run the 4 bar set up on the left side with the upper bar being at least 2 in. longer. make a plug for the bottom link that shortens up the length of the bottom bar to be 2 in shorter than the top. The pierce clamp set up will be fine on the left side. Run the z link on the right side with the spring on top of the axel as you planned. I would run the shock on the floater on the back side with this set up, pretty common on a pierce car. Run straight 200 pound springs both sides, straight bar with 4-5 in of rake. If you rather run the j bar, about 6 in of rake with the bar centered on the pinion. 8-2 lr, 3-5 right rear . Start with about 45-60 pounds of left rear with driver. Hope some of this will help you.

[racin6mod]

I would clamp up the lr with a bsb type mount pictured below and put a spring perch on top of the axle tube on the rr this would be very easy and let you keep the bars you currently have.just go to a 250 #lr spring to start and tune from ther this would basicly make it a z-link car. just level the bars on the rr going off the hiemend's (not the lower bar) the lr will be pretty close to a swingarm.panard and everything else will stay the same.I just worked on a car that was set up this way and it was a fast car he won a couple of track championships with that set up.

[timcole421]

Above is pretty much exactly what I ordered, except the perch for the spring on the LR is angled inward quite a bit. Piece was supposed to be for a pierce car....

[timcole421]

I am baffled as to why they would outlaw swing arms, but, let you run a 4 link???? Thats just plain stupid......

You're telling me. Since 2003 (at least) as long as you had no eliminators, and no spring on the pull bar (no lift arms) it was anything goes. Mine has been out there since 04, and I know there's a 3 link and a 4 bar out there too. 90% of the FAST guys run a fast boy, or fast boy variation. It is my understanding that someone called Eldora wanting to build a stock car for there, and asked if a swingarm car would be OK. The gentleman who decides Eldora's rules (who doesn't have a clue what has been OK for the last 10 years) said absolutely not, and added to the rule book. A certain university owned race track I planned to run all year at, blindly added the rule without question. We wanted to convert it to a swing link....weld the birdcages to the housing and remove the back bars. We were told no - their crack inspection team will be looking for ANY suspension that has the spring mounted to the trailing arm, and it will be considered illegal. I'm about fed up with the bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) already, and wont put up with much more before I just go someplace else. There's no rhyme, reason, or logic to this crap. If they want to reel the suspensions back in, bar the birdcage - problem solved. Instead they just pick swingarm, and make it illegal.

Talked to the builder yesterday who is going to end up doing the conversion and setup...he wants to go z/z which he states will be a little more forgiving and consistent. I still wanna have the 4 bar left side option though. Thanks all for the help so far!