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jden89
03-09-2012, 07:53 AM
Im about to buy a new carb for my mod im running a 406 all forged alluminum heads and im trying to decide on running alcohol vs race fuel. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joey

charcoal01
03-09-2012, 08:50 AM
Alcohol- makes more power than gas, somewhat quicker out of the hole, can run more compression, runs cooler, maintanence is a major pain.

Gas- less fuel burn off so more consistent handling, power comes on smoother so theoretically easier to drive in the slick, no major maintenance concerns, runs hotter and the price just keeps going up

I run gas for what it's worth. Hope that helps

dirtrace09
03-09-2012, 08:56 AM
What cam do you have in your engine? or are you needing to get one also? There is a big difference in what an alky motor likes compared to a gas motor in terms of cam selection.
Also; you need to consider your cooling system, fuel pump, bypass or regulator, etc... If you already have any or all of these parts then that can influence also.
Alky is also very corrosive so care needs to be taken to keep the carb, fuel pump, etc... working correctly in the long term.

dirttrackrocker
03-09-2012, 09:01 AM
The "maintenance pain" is a myth. I run alcohol. I don't do anything different week to week than I did with gas. At the end of the year I empty the cell and float bowls and run gas through it for a minute or so and thats it.
The only problem you may have is you sometimes you have to squirt a little gas in the carb to get it started if it is cold out.

jden89
03-09-2012, 09:49 AM
Im not sure what cam is in it. Im picking up the motor Sunday it is one a guy had as a spare. He did say he was going to run an ally carb though

JustAddDirt
03-09-2012, 10:50 AM
I would stick with alky myslef. it is cheaper, i don't care about the argument "you burn double the alky to gas"
you can buy almost 4 drums of alky to 1 drum of gas.
If you are not racing big shows every week, and are a saturday night racer...go with alky
if you are racing 50 lap features or more every weekend for $5k....gas

I agree with above poster on maintence. I did nothing special in maintence on fuel system when I ran alky for 15 years.
( If you take a couple weekends off durning the summer from racing drain the carb, put a little 2 stroke oil in it, or marvel mystery oil in the bowls.)
do the same thing at the end of the year. drain everything down and out, and put something in the carb bowls, and fuel pump to keep all gaskets plyable.

I currently run gas, but might be going back to alky for when I race a regular saturday night shows. much cheaper to run.

Just remember all posts are a matter of opinion.
If motor was built to run alky, I would stick with alky.

sj valley dave
03-09-2012, 11:51 PM
You make more torque with alky for sure, hardly any more peak HP...More compression?? LOL How do you figure that? What do you run for compression 17:1?? You definitely run cooler with alcohol...Still way cheaper, but on the West Coast you are not going to buy 4 barrels to 1 barrel..Not even close..

charcoal01
03-10-2012, 09:54 AM
Guess I should have clarified, you can run gas at 15:1 and higher, but you're going to be paying 10+ dollars a gallon for gas so the motor doesn't detonate and blow up. Alcohol is usually fine at 15:1.

jden89
03-12-2012, 06:13 PM
I run 2 tracks one friday and one Saturday we use track fuel and the ally is right at half cost of the gas. Has anyone had any experience with the Willy slick track carb?

chapa9
03-12-2012, 09:24 PM
I run alky and do nothing really extra with maintenance on the fuel system. I try to buy fuel from a local supplier.

1Mower
03-12-2012, 10:02 PM
Gas is the way to go...

Mosidebite
03-14-2012, 08:42 PM
I would stick with alky myslef. it is cheaper, i don't care about the argument "you burn double the alky to gas"
you can buy almost 4 drums of alky to 1 drum of gas.
If you are not racing big shows every week, and are a saturday night racer...go with alky
if you are racing 50 lap features or more every weekend for $5k....gas

I agree with above poster on maintence. I did nothing special in maintence on fuel system when I ran alky for 15 years.
( If you take a couple weekends off durning the summer from racing drain the carb, put a little 2 stroke oil in it, or marvel mystery oil in the bowls.)
do the same thing at the end of the year. drain everything down and out, and put something in the carb bowls, and fuel pump to keep all gaskets plyable.

I currently run gas, but might be going back to alky for when I race a regular saturday night shows. much cheaper to run.

Just remember all posts are a matter of opinion.
If motor was built to run alky, I would stick with alky.

100% on the money....in my opinion. By the way, I can buy a drum of alky for $135.00, what does gas go for these days?

sj valley dave
03-14-2012, 11:37 PM
here in the West, alky is about $220 a barrel and our race gas is $590 a barrel...We run gas at 15:1

charcoal01
03-15-2012, 07:42 AM
I'm guessing your talking about c12 or something of the like for 500+ a barrel, I'm on vp110 and I get a drum for right around 380. Compression is 13.2:1, which the objective of the build was to be able to run 110, so compression was kept lower. You can run cheap alcohol for much less than race gas, but if you're running quality alky, I think it all come out about the same in the end.

sj valley dave
03-15-2012, 01:47 PM
I'm talking about Dirt Late Model Plus...114 octane, used in a 15:1 engine...Alky used to be tons cheaper, but not quite the bargain it used to be...ugh

powerslide
03-15-2012, 10:42 PM
my understanding is the alky you get for $130 a barrell is reclaimed. The stuff that is $220 a barrell is fresh unused(thats what the supplier of the more expensive VP alky is claiming). Can my car tell the difference? not that i know of so i used the cheap stuff. As long as you have a good top lube it should be ok. But on that note i am looking for a gas carb right now. I have had issues with the white build up and am tired of fighting it. I only race 5-10 times per year.

Egoracing
03-16-2012, 07:04 AM
T some track the re-claimed alcohol cost some cars their engines during a big event last year. After the event the rumor came out and was verified that the track bought a bunch of alcohol for $110 per 55 gallons if they bought all the guy had, and they did. Final total was 5 engines two were by one team. After they figured out what happened they tested the fuel and it had all kinds of stuff in it including a large amount of water.

charcoal01
03-16-2012, 07:44 AM
That alcohol you can buy that cheap is called plug fuel. They stick it in the gas pipelines as a buffer when they're switching from pumping gas, to diesel, or oil, or whatever. So your alcohol could have any number of trace products that isn't gonna make your engine run very crisp or as ego said, blow it up.

JustAddDirt
03-16-2012, 08:07 AM
my understanding is the alky you get for $130 a barrell is reclaimed. The stuff that is $220 a barrell is fresh unused(thats what the supplier of the more expensive VP alky is claiming). Can my car tell the difference? not that i know of so i used the cheap stuff. As long as you have a good top lube it should be ok. But on that note i am looking for a gas carb right now. I have had issues with the white build up and am tired of fighting it. I only race 5-10 times per year.

Did you drain the carb, and fuel pump and put anything type of lube in them?

powerslide
03-16-2012, 10:43 AM
Did you drain the carb, and fuel pump and put anything type of lube in them?

old enough to know better still too young to care. Hence the reason i am going to gas i am a one man show most of the time so any maintence i can cut out will be more time to devote to tires.

20laps you lose alot of rear weight on alky especially with all the yahoos banking off each other and wrecking every two laps at my track. i bet we do 40 caution laps for a 20lap feature. i typically go out with 22gal and come back with 5gal

AH55
03-16-2012, 10:45 AM
I get the white build up as well....kind of looks like vaseline. I was told by C&S that it's water in the alky. I have since switched to a Holley and still get it in the bowls, but not as much. We buy our alky from the track and I store the carb and fuel pump with WD40 in them over the winter. I don't typically do anything to them during the week as we race every week. The vaseline type stuff has never hurt anything to my knowledge, we now take the bowls off about every 5 nights and clean it out.

JustAddDirt
03-16-2012, 02:03 PM
old enough to know better still too young to care. Hence the reason i am going to gas i am a one man show most of the time so any maintence i can cut out will be more time to devote to tires.

20laps you lose alot of rear weight on alky especially with all the yahoos banking off each other and wrecking every two laps at my track. i bet we do 40 caution laps for a 20lap feature. i typically go out with 22gal and come back with 5gal\


good point. I have been to those places and almost went through a 25 gallon tank of alky.

Egoracing
03-16-2012, 03:11 PM
That alcohol you can buy that cheap is called plug fuel. They stick it in the gas pipelines as a buffer when they're switching from pumping gas, to diesel, or oil, or whatever. So your alcohol could have any number of trace products that isn't gonna make your engine run very crisp or as ego said, blow it up.

The lab that tested this stuff said it was more than likley reclaimed from dry cleaning.

Egoracing
03-16-2012, 03:14 PM
\


good point. I have been to those places and almost went through a 25 gallon tank of alky.

Before East Bay put in a time limit on the races I watched car running 32 gallon cells run out trying to get in a 20 lap feature. Now they have a 30 min time limit from the drop of the first green and I have seen them get a total of 5 laps in before time ran out.

turner
03-16-2012, 04:35 PM
As easy is it is to build a 700 Hp engine now days, not sure its worth it to just run it for extra HP/TQ and to keep your engine cool. Atleast in a mod.

cassellracing24
03-18-2012, 04:13 AM
Cerrent Price in Central,IL by the Barrel....

Sunoco

110 $345.65
112 $369.95
114 $480.65
116 $548.15
112 $604.31 Oxygenated MO2X
Methanol $127.60

Plus $20 Drum Deposit.........

Egoracing
03-18-2012, 09:48 AM
Cerrent Price in Central,IL by the Barrel....

Sunoco

110 $345.65
112 $369.95
114 $480.65
116 $548.15
112 $604.31 Oxygenated MO2X
Methanol $127.60

Plus $20 Drum Deposit.........

So if you figure in the additional useage (about 2.2 times the amount of gas) it equals out to be about $280 for an equal amount of race time. or about $60 less per equal race time.

rubbinsracin
03-18-2012, 12:21 PM
When we switched from alky to gas we went from using 14ish gallons per night to about 6ish gallons per nigh in our open late model motor. Car stayed a lot more balanced with gas also because of how much less was burnt off. However the car did run about 20* warmer on gas.

Mosidebite
03-18-2012, 10:52 PM
The alky I am running is as pure as you are gonna get...as the refinery is just up the road about 2 miles. When I raced go karts we had community fuel...meaning everybody brought a couple gallons and we mixed it all together then got a couple gallons back. When ours was tested they said it was the best stuff being contributed.
Sometimes people pay more for stuff and think that makes it better. I buy it from the supplier right here in town. Another supplier who gets it from the exact same spout charges almost a dollar more a gallon and swears they have better fuel. Guess transporting it that thirty miles or so really costs a lot....

By the way, I have never popped an engine due to a fuel related problem