Cross

[DANNY]

How important is cross? Been messin with it for couple days and unless I jack the LR way up... Right now the numbers are:

55% rear
55% left
49% cross
#130 bite
Total 3275

If I jack the LR way up it gets 52-53% but messes with ride heights and puts a ton of LR bite in too...
This is on a monte 3-link let me know what else need to know...

[gun91]

I keep my cross at less than 50% always. Really depends on you driving style. Some I know run 52-53% always and do good with it. Your numbers in my opinion look good (I hope your talking dirt track) except for the 55% left which is a couple % high (I like 51-53 left myself). Rear is a lil high too for my taste and tracks around here but I also know guys that run more rear than that. I would put it on the track and see what happens THEN if it ain't to your liking adjust from there.

[DANNY]

Humm ok sounds good to me... Yep 1/4-1/3 dirt with good banking...

Thanks

[ToddSmith16]

Less Cross is needed when tacky and more Cross is needed when dry slick. 50.5-51% is a good point for both conditions. As your bite goes up so will your cross. Usually run my bite around 175-200lbs on Emod tires.

[53003jason]

It seems you might be a little high on rear? How does the car handle are you trying to fix a certain problems?

[gun91]

Most dont look at cross on dirt.

We look at bite. They are virtually one and the same.

I usually use bite #s also but at same time I will drive cars for others that are different from my cars. My cars usually at 49% cross will be 75#s or less on "bite". I have driven cars that took 51-52 cross to get that much bite and have driven cars that at 51-52 cross had 200 lbs of bite. Usually I dont work on or build others cars but have driven quite a few and barely had time to scale and several times scaled after racing to see where it's at to try and help them. I use the scales to get my car in the "ballpark" and will adjust from there. One I get it where I want it, it only goes on scales to record those numbers, frame heights, spring rates, etc so I can scale it from time to time just to make sure nothing has changed. After initial setup, I don't adjust my car on the scales. I usually jack up the rear and see how much rr tire comes up before lr then do it again after I make a change.

To Danny,
Some people like a lot of "bite" or LR weight (150-250lbs) and some drivers don't want over 50 lbs of bite. That's why I said drive it and see what ya got first then go from there! A winning setup for me is usually under 75lbs of bite on a real dry slick track (when it's tacky I will be around 30-40) but I know guys that run good and win races with 250 lbs bite. I would say you got a good starting point and would try it like it is. If its close make SMALL changes, one at a time till you get it where you want it. That way you know if your change helped or hurt handling. No one can give you that "miracle" set up cause every driver different. What one driver likes may be junk to another.

[DANNY]

It seems you might be a little high on rear? How does the car handle are you trying to fix a certain problems?

Your not the first person to say that... The car just got redone from its diet before it was #3450 to get the % ... I never moved any of the weights from before just started scaling it out...

Gun91: I agree im gonna see what it does what im wondering is why its so low with as much bite and the other question why is the left is a lil high too? If all else fails im going to pull it all off and remount is all one at a time still believe i am going to run it and see what happens... Who knows i have always liked a "tight car"

Heres one for you, my buddy here bout choked when i told him my ride heights...
They approx LF/RF 9.25 RR 10.5 LR 10 from bottom of frame to ground... Supp with that?

Danny

[DaveBauerSS6]

left factors into cross

cross is irrelevant in dirt track racing.

set your

left
rear
bite
total

and go racing

Agreed..... Take 34# off the LF and move it to the RF. Thats 2% change in cross and minimal change in bite. Work with bite.
Good luck.

[DANNY]

left factors into cross

cross is irrelevant in dirt track racing.

set your

left
rear
bite
total

and go racing

Humm gotta lower the left lol

[dirt2]

How important is cross? Been messin with it for couple days and unless I jack the LR way up... Right now the numbers are:

55% rear
55% left
49% cross
#130 bite
Total 3275

If I jack the LR way up it gets 52-53% but messes with ride heights and puts a ton of LR bite in too...
This is on a monte 3-link let me know what else need to know...

Adjust the suspension at all four springs to add or take out crossweight & the
chassis heights will not change as much. What springs do you have in under the
car now?

dirt2

[DANNY]

Lf-8.5" #825
rf-8.5" #925
lr-15" #175
rr-13" #200

[carowner73]

cross only affects the car in the center of the corner, if you keep the bite the same and change cross it will free/tighten car in the center. But as the others said bite and cross are pretty much the same thing. Bite will affect the car all the way thru the corner also changing the cross. , so you have to play with things according to what you are trying to accomplish.

Always remember scales are only a reference point, learn to adjust the car at the track and not on the scales.

[newguy]

are his ride heights to hi? I know stock car driver says to have trailing arm level. in order to get that I gotta have 9" ride height on g60 tires.

[frontrunner]

Are ridehights over rated or what?? I know some guys run the right side of car lower than the left side of car on ride hights so whats up with that?????

[ortman18]

were do you measure your ride hts at ive put the tape at the lower and measure to the spring bucket and also front lower aframe bolt

[sj valley dave]

When you start messing with ride heights and get away from the manufacturer's recommendations, don't forget you will start moving roll centers around..As you start playing with lower and upper a arms angles, they will change dramatically...

[spray004]

were do you measure your ride hts at ive put the tape at the lower and measure to the spring bucket and also front lower aframe bolt

Yes where do you measure from?

[MM90]

I know this is another way and more for helping with bump steer. If I remember right, a way to measure front ride heights is to have the right tie rod level and the left tie rod about 2 degrees up with the outside being higher.

[spray004]

I know this is another way and more for helping with bump steer. If I remember right, a way to measure front ride heights is to have the right tie rod level and the left tie rod about 2 degrees up with the outside being higher.

So if I set the right tie rod level and left tie rod 2 degrees up. Would I then measure to a flat spot on the front of the frame to get the ride height and then add an 1" to that measurement to figure out what I need to set my rear ride heights at?

[MM90]

They don't really compare front to rear when measuring this way. Like I said measuring that way is more for helping with bump steer than actual ride heights. Once you have your ride heights set, check the angle on your tie rods and see where they are. If anything they will give you a secondary measurment for future reference. Just like measuring the angle of your a-arms as a secondary ride height.

[spray004]

They don't really compare front to rear when measuring this way. Like I said measuring that way is more for helping with bump steer than actual ride heights. Once you have your ride heights set, check the angle on your tie rods and see where they are. If anything they will give you a secondary measurment for future reference. Just like measuring the angle of your a-arms as a secondary ride height.

Oh ok gotcha. My problem really is trying to figure out what ride height to set the car out. I've read so many different heights, plus all of those are relative to tire size and where on the car you're measuring.

[spray004]

level your lower a arms

Then measure a flat spot on the front of the frame and set the rake based on those heights?

[Racer96m]

Oh ok gotcha. My problem really is trying to figure out what ride height to set the car out. I've read so many different heights, plus all of those are relative to tire size and where on the car you're measuring.

Ride Height is a Generic term for each individual car. Like previously stated, set your Front lower arms where you want them, and your rear arms where you want them. Then Take your ride height measurements from some point on the frame. This will be your quick reference point on your chassis to come back to and check. I like the RF lower arm 1/4 in higher at the center of the lower ball joint than the center of the forward inner bushing through bolt on the front of the cross member. The Left side I like flat. The rears can be all over the place, just depends on how you have it jigged. But ride height should only mean something to your own car, not anyone else.

Dave

[Moldymulldoon]

If the left rear is higher than the right side it puts the upper bar at more of an angle than the right. With the angle on the upper being so much, when in body roll it can put MORE rear steer into the chassis. It will pull the upper mount forward.
You could go up 25# on the left rear spring. Go old school. Put a socket on the floor jack plate and jack rear end up in the middle. The right side should lift first. More it lifts before the left, more cross is on chassis.
You can try 53% on left. cross and rear, as a starting point. With the cross, simple thing to do is crank enough cross into it till it starts to push then back off till it feels good to you. Do a web search on what to do with the springs to fix certain parts of the corner. DON'T fiddle with shocks till you get the springs/setup sorted out.

Good luck, confusion can be a good thing.
Confucius say: Woman who go fishing with four men, come back with red snapper.