hyd. vs soild heads?

[14flower]

i have ran my 2300 and like the performance i have but tried of being mid pack i have a heart shaped closed chamber head mill max. stock size valves and a .479 hyd. cam from racerwalsh. and it just doesnt seem to keep up. how much more would i gain going solid and more lift? or do i just need to get another hyd. cam?

[Old Rob]

What are your rules in regard to cam specs. Also are you geared correctly. You may need a tough more gear.

[mustang99]

i have ran my 2300 and like the performance i have but tried of being mid pack i have a heart shaped closed chamber head mill max. stock size valves and a .479 hyd. cam from racerwalsh. and it just doesnt seem to keep up. how much more would i gain going solid and more lift? or do i just need to get another hyd. cam?

we'll depends on the size track u are running...and the rpms u are turning,,,and what gears and transmission,,u have,,,,but in my opinion,,,,solid is better,,,just as long as the rules let u run them.i've tried both and solid is better the downside is u have to check the adjust on them often.but racerwalsh cams the 450 solid lift cam is the biggest u can go with stock length valves.but u can check with esslinger racing,they have bigger cams that u can use with stock length valves,,but with there cams u have to cut or mill your lifter boss down for the esslinger lifters to work.but the racerwalsh cams offer drop in solid lifters for there cams,,but like i said,, a 450 solid cam is the biggest cam racerwalsh has to run with solid lifters.

[14flower]

a small 1/4 and big 1/4 mile. and i can do anything i want to a any cast iron head no aluminum and no porting bowl work allowed. and idk what best rpm to run a 2.3 with 5,2 rods? ive been turning 7700

[14flower]

a small 1/4 and big 1/4 mile. and i can do anything i want to a any cast iron head no aluminum and no porting bowl work allowed. and idk what best rpm to run a 2.3 with 5,2 rods? ive been turning 7700 and running the same gear as everyone else.

[Milford Motorsports]

I have built a lot of engines for a lot of different people and the biggest complaint is I don't have enough power to run with the top dogs,even though their cars drive like a dump truck.Push your set up to the max first,then look for more HP.

[14flower]

ok but everyone im running against has 2.5 to 2.6s with .620 rollers so im lacking power just trying to figure how to spend my money i have to upgrade my eninge the best i can for as least as i can.

[Dan32]

there's no real cheap way to go fast y

[engineczar]

One of the problems that jumps out is trying to turn 7700rpms with a hydraulic cam. Those two numbers just don't jive. The motor might be spinning that high but it's certainly not making any power.

[14flower]

what rpms should i try to have then at then end of the striaght away? and that somehing else i was wondering what rpm max should i turn with that set and a 5.2 bottom end?

[14flower]

and dan not trying to be cheap about just trying to not change stuff i dont need to. and trying to learn y i have to do something to get what i want. and understand y i did it.

[engineczar]

What Racer Walsh cam are you currently running?

[14flower]

there .479 lift hyd. cam

[14flower]

and old rob i have no cam rules can even run the volvo head if i wanted.

[engineczar]

The .479 hyd listed has 230@.05 duration which is only going to make power to around 6000 rpms. maybe less. Above that it really stops pulling. Also the 112 lobe centers isn't doing you any favors on a 1/4 mile track.

The big question is how much to spend on your head. If the cam rule is wide open and the budget is there then a solid roller is going to make the most power but the price tag is steep.

Is the money there to convert the head to a solid lifter? If so something in the 245-250@.05 range and 106 lobe centers would be quite helpful.

[14flower]

ya i can go solid dont know if i could do roller unless i could find a cheap good used one. my buddy has the same bottom end and but he has a big valve heart shape d port head with a .527 lift cam from schinder that run realy well. and if the would nt coil bild my springs couldnt i just get one of those and do the solid swap on top that? or would hyd. roller be better.

[14flower]

called racerwalsh tech support thry said cam is good from 3500-7200 rpm and to 7500 with anti pump ups? would that be true? and what what about esslinger .468 lift hyd./solid cam my meachinest said that would be his pick for me if i dont change anything cause he said my head as it sits can only handle about .535 .540 lift max

[engineczar]

Racer Walsh is full of it if they think a 230 duration cam will pull to 7500.

If you stay with a hydraulic cam and depending on how your head flows the 304H from Schnieder would be a decent choice. The Esslinger isn't too far off but I think the 260 duration it has might be too much for a 1/4 track unless you have a good amount of compression say at least 12:1.

Converting the head over to a solid would uncover a bit more power but it does require a bit of machine work.

[14flower]

only have 10:1 witch idk y with what i have but the 1/4 i run is wide high banked and fast sprint car times are almost hitting the high 9s. and what about the solid kits u dont have to mechine? the lift boss down?

[Old Rob]

called racerwalsh tech support thry said cam is good from 3500-7200 rpm and to 7500 with anti pump ups? would that be true? and what what about esslinger .468 lift hyd./solid cam my meachinest said that would be his pick for me if i dont change anything cause he said my head as it sits can only handle about .535 .540 lift max

If you go to the www.powerbyace.com site they have just a few solid cams that use stock length valves. One is 260 duration with .480 lift at lash. It can be taken out to .500 lift if your cam guy knows his stuff. Also look at thier cam setup tools, they help to get them accurate. The 260 cam with thier header usually needs a bigger muffler to pass noise limits. Email thier tech for more info.
Regardess of cam choice set your cam up at max lift at lash. Thats what you're getting when running. Example: I vary lash up to approx .0015 on cylinders so as to get the same .479 lift (.480 rule) at all cylynders.

[14flower]

the valves arent stock length the only stock size. thats y i can go up to .540 lift

[14flower]

and i built my engine with my curent cam on a pc build and like u said max power was 6000 and droped 5 hp at 6500 and 20 hp at 7000 and 45 from max at 7500 and playing with schinders cams the best is the 304h but with a 112 lobe center but the only down side is they dont say what intake and ex lobe centers are. so i played with ti and the motor like 116 and 102 lobe centers. so why is it everyone grinds there cams at 106 if 112 makes more power ?

[crcltrakr]

Because people don't race PC's and a Real life dyno makes no assumptions on the data!

[Racedad]

The tighter102-108 lobe centers accelerate harder in the mid-range,110 plus gives a smoother idle and more high rpm power.
Actual valve timing events are the most important measurements but lobe centers are useful way to compare cams.

[14flower]

thanks racedad that makes alot more sence. thanks for explining it instead of hating that i brought what found out. on a pc.

[engineczar]

I don't think there's any hating going on. Just folks trying to help. Another characteristic of lobe centers is that tighter lobe centers tend to be peaky horsepower wise. Wider lobe centers tend to produce a flatter but wider torque curve. On tracks with longer straightaways I tend to use 110 and up centerlines.

[14flower]

ok that makes sence. well ran the car this weekend after reseting the cam heads up and 32' adv and ran realy good and went from my 723/4 lr role out to a 74 lr role out and rr from a 733/4 to a 741/2 to help the gearing/ rpm problem and it seem to help installing a tech for the next race. so why where talking about cams what about heads i know most people say its all personal preference but is there one thats better for say a 1/4 mile track?

[crcltrakr]

You might try 4-6 degrees more timing, most built 2300's like 38-40 total.....

[car62]

i agree with Jerry(crcltrakr)

we run 36-38 with stock rod and 38-41 with long rod...makes a HUGE power difference

[Dan32]

what rpms should i try to have then at then end of the striaght away? and that somehing else i was wondering what rpm max should i turn with that set and a 5.2 bottom end?

you can turn stock rods 8200 if you know the tricks and use good rod bolts! i would run 103 lobe seperation will get you of the corner better but with out flowing your head your running in the dark you must know what your capable of before you start tossing money at it! and valve springs plays a huge part in your rpms so start at the bottom and go up!!

[Dan32]

You might try 4-6 degrees more timing, most built 2300's like 38-40 total.....

with 5.2 rods??

[14flower]

ya i only run like 32 34 but that was on 103 octane now runing 114 too. and dan i just have normal arp rod bolts was thinking of rying to put arp s2000 rod bolts in some 5.2 rods just to play with it. and im gona flow the head with in the next couple of weeks. and i found a guy with a raceengineering cam forsale on ebay has 104 lobe center with intake on 102 and 252 duration @.050 .480 lift would that work?

[Dan32]

ya i only run like 32 34 but that was on 103 octane now runing 114 too. and dan i just have normal arp rod bolts was thinking of rying to put arp s2000 rod bolts in some 5.2 rods just to play with it. and im gona flow the head with in the next couple of weeks. and i found a guy with a raceengineering cam forsale on ebay has 104 lobe center with intake on 102 and 252 duration @.050 .480 lift would that work?

not bad check those #s make sure there right!!

[14flower]

i did i went to raceeng.com and double checked the cam card.