PBM blocks

[DoubleD]

I found a good deal on a PBM block. Anybody out there using them what are your opinions? Thanks

[Egoracing]

I found a good deal on a PBM block. Anybody out there using them what are your opinions? Thanks

Replys about them have not been good at all. They were reported by CNC Blocks on here that they were soft and had issues.

[fox1162002]

My local machine shop said they are junk too soft. They had machined one for a guy and he brought it back after making 2 passes in it in a drag car and it look it had crome moly rings used in it. There wass a big ring groove in the cylinders.

[SS Motorsports]

How recently has this been? I've read that there were some casting issues a few years back when some of the rumors were they were using blocks cast in China. Their blocks are cast in the U.S. now and I personally doubt any of the above issues are that recent.

[perfconn]

Aluminum or castiron?

[DoubleD]

Iron block

[fox1162002]

This was a few yrs ago and it was iron.

[Egoracing]

How recently has this been? I've read that there were some casting issues a few years back when some of the rumors were they were using blocks cast in China. Their blocks are cast in the U.S. now and I personally doubt any of the above issues are that recent.

Last year is when he tested them.

[Dirt Racer]

i think the blocks are now cast at world products, you can tell the difference between the world products blocks, if you look at the lifter valley.

[SS Motorsports]

If I recall correctly, they were being talked about on another forum and CNC blocks came across as someone that had an axe to grind. And the dates from the discussion were from 2008-09, If the blocks were as soft as some folks claim they are the main bearing caps would pull out as soon as the engine fired. If you want to talk about junk, talk about all the Tomahawk blocks that are made in China that people re-brand and claim are the best. I think there were issues with their blocks at one time and they took the right steps to correct the problems.

[joedoozer]

Does anyone have date codes on the PBM blocks? When were they cast in China? When did they start casting in US? Has there been problems with both castings (earlier and later date codes)?

[billetbirdcage]

If you want the info, google it as you should be able to find it pretty quickly if you search Import blocks, CNC blocks, or PBM.

I'm going off memory so, I might be a little off on some stuff but this is the Jest of it.

For starters:

Yes Car at CNC blocks did do some testing on a import block that was sold thru PBM, it was soft (there are metal analization of the material listed in one of his posts). I believe that were machining issue along with the block being soft. However it was more then a year ago more like 2 or getting closer to 3. I do think PBM did switch to a world casting, but not 100% on that one for sure. Carl may come off wrong to some people but he has brought out in the open issues with several products by various manufactures (including companies that he sells their product exclusively). You can follow along in posts with several of those and see which manufacturers past the buck and which ones stand up and rectify the problem like a good company should.

Come to you own conclusion after reading some of these posts, would you want to deal with a company that lies/hides where they are made or machined or sells things before they are tested or can't/don't catch anything in inspection and then drags their feet to fix any of it or one that find they have a problem and immediately corrects the problem and makes things right with the customer. Especially when the cost difference between these companies products are so small at around few hundred dollars on a 2000.00 product.

There is a lot of he said she said out there and take what you read with a grain of salt, every company will make a mistake. It's how it is handled and how quickly it's resolved that makes a good standup company. Do some reading and it will become pretty clear which one of the block companies has the least complaints and if there is a problem they take care of it on their dime and not pass some of the expense to the customer with the problem. Once you consider the price difference between the companies, why would someone take the chance over maybe 200.00 and the problem that may incur.

DISCLAIMER (LOL!) I do not know or have talked to Carl, but have read enough to know he doesn't have an axle to grind. He is not the only one that has found these or other problems, but is one of the more vocal people out there and does it to help other engine builders realize there COULD be an issue and needs to be checked before they have comebacks from their customers because of a possible mis-machined/faulty product.

As with anything posted on the internet (my post also), you need to take it with a grain of salt and make your on mind up.

Billet

[dirty white boy]

what i remember was lotta off tolerances on the PBM blocks,...decks not square,..lifter bores out of alignment an such...an dont recall cnc sounding like he had ax's seemed to be a fair an honest post but was 2-3 years back an quality may have improved....

[zeroracing]

What I remember from read Cnc post was he was a hard a... He seemed extremely smart, and would call it how he seen it. He seemed to be a stickler for perfection and will point out any imperfections, some big some small, but glad to see somebody like him doing it.

I thought I recal him having issues with dart blocks at one time, they fixed all the issues and I would give a large amount of credit to dart for stepping up and to Cnc for catching issues most would miss.

I think he is just a by the book guy that will call out problems, it is up to the company to address and fix those problems. I would not get a pbm block because of his review and other rumors of poor quality. I trust dart blocks so will stick to what I know works and is safe. The $$$ I put into a motor I am not going to skimp over a few hundred bucks.

If pbm wants my business then get a new block tested By Cnc or another independent, trustworthy source. Maybe herndons can test one, or have both of them review the block.

[Dirt Racer]

This applies to the Iron blocks. The New Blocks are WORLD PRODUCTS blocks. If you look in the lifter galley you could not mistake these from the DART copy that was so well discussed a few years back. The world blocks do not have the big open drain slots like the Dart blocks do, instead they have a few round holes.
The Aluminum Blocks are cast in New Zealand I think.

And as for Carl at CNC Blocks sure he is going to promote Dart as he is a Dealer for them, It wasnt broadcast all over the net when he was having issues with the main bore housings on the SHP blocks.

[billetbirdcage]

And as for Carl at CNC Blocks sure he is going to promote Dart as he is a Dealer for them, It wasnt broadcast all over the net when he was having issues with the main bore housings on the SHP blocks.

Yes, it was, he started this post here Titled "SHP MAIN LINE (NOT IMPRESSED)" http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14169

Then you can read the follow up by (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) Maskins (owner of dart) here: http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14295

I'm not defending or going after Carl, but he has brought up issues with all brand of parts including ones he sells, so I see that as not having an axe to grind as he could have just taken care of the issue with Dart without posting it first. What I have read and seen leaves me to believe he's being fair and unbiased as one can be. (In my opinion).

I'm done with this subject but advise anyone to do your own research and make your on minds up about different products.

****Note: In all fairness to PBM, I don't think the block tested with the soft issue was actually a PBM unit but was the same casting which I don't think they ever ended up selling because of that whole drama. Again not 100% but you can search and find it yourselves if you like.

[Dirt Racer]

If I recall it was just on speed talk. But the PBM issue was on here, speed talk, yellow bullet and another. Just seemed to be a little biased towards Dart, and rightly so if that is where he makes his money.

[Nor Cal Road Racer]

Hi guys, new here and found site by trying to do some research on PBM blocks.
I currently run a PBM aluminum small block in my road racer......428 ci, 14:1 compression, Dart 230 Platinum heads, 620 HP @ 6500 and 560 TQ at 4900.
I have run one season on this block and so far the only issue I have had was recently breaking a PBM timing chain and will now be going to a belt drive.
I will keep you guys posted on any future experiences and in the mean time since stampings and serial numbers have been part of the discussions I will take and post some pic's while it is still apart.