Having a hard time growing tires to get correct stagger

[WestVDirtGuy]

We just can't seem to get the left rear tire to the size we need it to be. We're wanting to run around 2 inches of stagger in the car and can't seem to get below 3 1/2 inches. We've tried putting 45 psi in the left rear and letting it sit (even with heat) with no results.

Any tips on what we can do to get this stagger down to where we need it to be?

[Egoracing]

Some tires will not open up. What tires are they?

[jedclampit]

Buy 2 rr, one with bigest chalk mark and smallest they got, you should be good with psi differential.

[WestVDirtGuy]

Some tires will not open up. What tires are they?

We're running Hoosier C4000. Growing LR 1200, 1300, and 1325.

[WestVDirtGuy]

Buy 2 rr, one with bigest chalk mark and smallest they got, you should be good with psi differential.

Have you had success with this in the past. Will having the two larger circumference tires affect the setup at all?

[lazermod3]

We just can't seem to get the left rear tire to the size we need it to be. We're wanting to run around 2 inches of stagger in the car and can't seem to get below 3 1/2 inches. We've tried putting 45 psi in the left rear and letting it sit (even with heat) with no results.

Any tips on what we can do to get this stagger down to where we need it to be?

You need to put 60psi in tire,and let it sit in the sun for the better part of the day.

[WestVDirtGuy]

You need to put 60psi in tire,and let it sit in the sun for the better part of the day.

What are the odds of a race tire with 60 psi blowing up in my face?

[jedclampit]

If your buying new tires talk to the guy @ the truck, or call the dealers shop, they should be able to get you close with chalk marks, you can usually exchange if your nice to the tires and him!

[drtrkr244]

Why only 2" of stagger?

Is this for the front?

[WestVDirtGuy]

Why only 2" of stagger?

Is this for the front?

No. We always have between 0-1" in the front. We want 2" in the rear to tighten the car up and it's just always been the way the driver likes it. Not until recently have we ever had trouble growing tires. Just frustrating.

[fordracer7]

Are you trying to grow new tires or old? If your tire has been through a heat cycle it won't grow.

[hooter0989]

We just can't seem to get the left rear tire to the size we need it to be. We're wanting to run around 2 inches of stagger in the car and can't seem to get below 3 1/2 inches. We've tried putting 45 psi in the left rear and letting it sit (even with heat) with no results.

Any tips on what we can do to get this stagger down to where we need it to be?

try going to 25lbs they will swell when heated up

[drtrkr244]

If you and your driver are in WV, I would attend the Rocket Chassis School.

If you are using 2" of stagger to tighten car, you should re-think your set-up.

Thats a major crutch. Your rear tires are really fighting each other causing a loss in speed and traction.

I have a stagger table based on track width, banking angle, and turn radius.It would really help racers understand the use of proper stagger.

[powerslide]

We just can't seem to get the left rear tire to the size we need it to be. We're wanting to run around 2 inches of stagger in the car and can't seem to get below 3 1/2 inches. We've tried putting 45 psi in the left rear and letting it sit (even with heat) with no results.

Any tips on what we can do to get this stagger down to where we need it to be?

it's much like growing tomato and peppers. You need a good base to start with. I suggest rabit manure, bone meal and blood meal. Plant and watch your money trees grow.

[stock car driver]

If you and your driver are in WV, I would attend the Rocket Chassis School.

If you are using 2" of stagger to tighten car, you should re-think your set-up.

Thats a major crutch. Your rear tires are really fighting each other causing a loss in speed and traction.

I have a stagger table based on track width, banking angle, and turn radius.It would really help racers understand the use of proper stagger.

Where did you get the stagger table and is it based of your track width? Id really like to check something like that out!

[Dirtrunner35]

Example I have is this

Radius of inside tire=200 feet or 2400 inches ( 12" x 200')
Radius of outside tire= 2465 inches ( 2400 + 65" track width )
Outside tire travels 2465 x 2 x pi (3.1416) Divided by 2 =7744 inches
Inside tire travels 2400x 2 x pi Divided by 2 = 7540 inches
outside tire= 85inches in circumference
inside tire = 85 x ( 7540 divided 7744 ) = 82.75
Correct stagger =85 minus 82.75 or 2 1/4

[Egoracing]

Example I have is this

Radius of inside tire=200 feet or 2400 inches ( 12" x 200')
Radius of outside tire= 2465 inches ( 2400 + 65" track width )
Outside tire travels 2465 x 2 x pi (3.1416) Divided by 2 =7744 inches
Inside tire travels 2400x 2 x pi Divided by 2 = 7540 inches
outside tire= 85inches in circumference
inside tire = 85 x ( 7540 divided 7744 ) = 82.75
Correct stagger =85 minus 82.75 or 2 1/4

That is a great formula unless you start running the bottom of the track and the moisture moves up and you are running at the top ny the end of the race. Places like Eldora, Bulls Gap, Waycross, Kentucky Lake etc... have a HUGE variation in size from outside to inside. That is not even getting into tire growth at speed.

The formula is actually taken from an old Steve Smith book that was done for ministocks and streetstocks on asphalt if I remember right.

[drtrkr244]

Thats the correct formula except I have it on a spreadsheet based on turn radius, banking angle, and different turn radius'.

What that formula doesnt account for is stagger changing due to different load put on rear tires. The rear stagger should always be more than that formula gives.

BTW, a 200 ft radius turn would be found typically on a big 1/2 or 5/8 mile track.

[dirty white boy]

Where did you get the stagger table and is it based of your track width? Id really like to check something like that out!

meeee tooooo!!!!

[Egoracing]

Thats the correct formula except I have it on a spreadsheet based on turn radius, banking angle, and different turn radius'.

What that formula doesnt account for is stagger changing due to different load put on rear tires. The rear stagger should always be more than that formula gives.

BTW, a 200 ft radius turn would be found typically on a big 1/2 or 5/8 mile track.

I have ALWAYS loved the info that some books put out as a hard fast rule. But we race on a surface that is FAR from that.

Load on the tires is, Slip, tire growth (which will be different on the same tire depending on the air pressure you are running. I have seen a RR rub the body after the deck got bent and it would smoke right before the corner at the top speed part of the track. After the event we were looking at it and at ride height there was a good 10-12 inches from the tire to the body where it was rubbing. Even with suspension movement the tire would have to grown about 5 inches, Really makes you think about a car that gets loose just before they let off, picture that tire like the slick on a top fuel drag car and how they grow. This was on a BIG 1/2 mile track.

[jedclampit]

I'll say we have taken home the money ,often, with < 2" out back! YMMV

[Dirtrunner35]

That is a great formula unless you start running the bottom of the track and the moisture moves up and you are running at the top by the end of the race. Places like Eldora, Bulls Gap, Waycross, Kentucky Lake etc... have a HUGE variation in size from outside to inside. That is not even getting into tire growth at speed.

The formula is actually taken from an old Steve Smith book that was done for ministocks and streetstocks on asphalt if I remember right.

I have it from dusty Bob bolles book, I think the formula is a good starting point , then adjust from there.I haven't been to eldora for a few years, 30 min from my moms. I just remember eldora was slick for the features.

[drtrkr244]

That formula accounts for no load on right side tires.

You have to add a minimum of 20% up to 60%, depending on track conditions.

[xxxmod]

We just can't seem to get the left rear tire to the size we need it to be. We're wanting to run around 2 inches of stagger in the car and can't seem to get below 3 1/2 inches. We've tried putting 45 psi in the left rear and letting it sit (even with heat) with no results.

Any tips on what we can do to get this stagger down to where we need it to be?

You will have more luck shrinking the RR , dump the RR air out when the tire comes in warm and let it cool.
Should easily get a 1" to1.5" smaller.

[FlatTire]

I've been down to 2.75" of stagger before and the car just didn't want to cooperate thru the middle. What do you have thats not typical to make 2" work?

[drtrkr244]

Generally, anything less than 4" of stagger on a dlm is a crutch for a setup problem.

[jedclampit]

BIG, slick, banked, high momentum tracks... setup not disclosed, sorry!
The money crutch.
All I have to say!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Back in the monoleaf days, we won some races on SLICK tracks with a touch of reverse stagger!

[dfhotlm33c]

agree on that one masters! We were running one of those until last year!! Usually ran 1-2" with it, sometimes straight up at Wayne county speedway..

four bar cars like around 4"..last year my car was crazy loose one night..would just spin out on exit..wanted quick fix...dropped stagger from 4" to 2"...car wouldn't rotate through middle at all!

found out back at shop right rear was bottoming out the shock...ride height had adjusted itself down about an inch (adjuster nut not locked down tight enough!!)..put everything back where it belonged and 4" of stagger..was right as rain next week

[lovinlatemodels]

We had the chance to work with Hoosier on a tire test a few yrs back and there instructions then were to mount the tire blow it up till you seat it place a tape around tire and blow up till tire stops growing which fully expands the cords then let all the air out till flat then reinflate till desired pressure and there you have it. I have stretched tires before in desperation only to have it go back to the orginal size. Getting the biggest LR hot mark and smallest RR hot mark out side of that you have to work with wheel widths. I don't believe that 2" of stager is a crutch If you have longer straight of ways then corners you can do alot with 4 bar angles and lenghts to get rear steer to get you through the corners. JMO