Driving schools anybody been to one?

[Rocky]

How would you rate it? Saturday Night at County Line I came to the conclusion that you can run all the enduro and junk car races that you want, it WON'T prepare you to race in Late Models. Maybe the answer would be to sell off and step back again, but I'm 34 almost 35 years old and I don't really WANT to not be in Late Models. I would have worked my way up better if I wouldn't have been in the service plus I have a long time of being a crew guy, I can wrench....and I do have some door to door experience in bombers and 4 bangers but I need laps and when all you get to do is get out of the way... You can't get faster. I could probably rent the track and run a bunch of laps by my lonesome and be faster than I am I mean it wouldn't be too hard but I know if I had Jay Woolworth with me at the track (one of my mentors) he could fix what I think I'm doing wrong quick. However that would probably cost me more than just going to Mike Duvall or Donnie Moran or Dale McDowell's driving school. I think I have chassis setup issues from looking at my tires but I don't know I seem to think it's driver issues more than anything. (although I don't know)


What School did you go to?
How was the experience?
Did anybody bring their own car?
Can you bring your own car?
SHOULD you bring your own car?

I know chassis school wouldn't hurt but I really don't think the car is what's wrong, other than the fact it's snap loose I think some more rear weight can fix that. I think I'm just not ticklin' the gas right or something. We have a LONG way to go. Input is appreciated.

Please don't try and correct what my car is doing here, just tell me about your classroom experience. Thanks.

Seems like I just can't drive it and as a many years crew guy, I have a tendency to blame the driver.

Originally posted in gossip section nobody knows over there.

[C10]

I went to McDowells school. Very insightful, and you could and SHOULD bring your own car.

[Graff Spee]

I went to the Duke Southard school in the early 90's. It was very good. Took 5 days to complete. We put at least 100 laps in at the track in Ocala. Good class!!! I also went to Mike Duvalls class in Cowpens. Wound up with my first Barry Wright car then. We raced with Duvall at Cherokee before going to the class. I then wound up working with him for a time. I mostly built (welded up) his T&L chassis. That was a pretty good class also. It was mostly basic stuff. I went to two Race wise classes one in Arkansas and one in Indiana. I had talked to Mark Busch many times and I expected more from the class. It wound up bieng OK but not all good info. I saw that Mark never drove a car so every thing was based on his theory and some outside input but no actual hands on experience. Good class but I was not very impressed. I went back to the advanced class ,I think he only had one or two of them, then I said forget it.Many people like his class though. I sat with Dale McDowell in Arkansas and he told me that every one is looking for some big trick or secret from "the big guys" when in the end it comes down to common sense and wheel time. I hope that helped. Thats all I got!

[DLM06]

I have to agree with Graff Spree about the wheel time and experience. No school will prepare you to be competitive (unless you're a natural) at first in a late model. I went to the McDowell/Cook school and it helped in learning the basics about the proper line, etc. but I didn't really start improving as a driver until I had someone watching me race who was really knowledgeable about dirt racing. There are just too many situations and variables to cover in a day or two at a driving school. You also have to get out of your comfort zone which is hard to do unless you are actually in a race trying to gain, hold a position or just trying to keep up with the cars around you.

[Rocky]

Lets just say I nned to become faster than I am and can't do that without laps, and I'd prefer not to wreck anybody that's out there really racing by being a squirrelly moving chicane.

[joedoozer]

Rocky I was in the same situation. I spent time in the Army, and then several more years living overseas working as a contractor before I decided to move back home. I got a late start at driving, I was 35 when I had my first full year in the seat. And I jumped right into Late Models.

Like you I am a pretty good mechanic, so I knew I could learn the 4 bar stuff with time and effort. I know I won't be racing 30 years. So I didn't want to run the lower classes first. I am not putting down the leaf spring cars, but at the time I didn't see how seat time in a leaf spring car would teach me the feel of a 4 bar. I struggled the first few times out. The track I was running never felt fast, so I over drove every corner. When I was following someone I ran good laps, I was a great "copycat". But when I was out there by myself I had no feel for how fast I was going, nothing to gauge myself to. The more laps you have the better you will get.

Track rental is a great option. It would be best if you could rent it with someone you race with. A friend of yours, someone that has been helping you out. You split the cost and it gives you someone to follow. You can see what his car does and how it acts, and see if you feel that with your car. You don't have to "hassle" him the entire time with questions. You are just trying to run him down.

I learned the most my first season when the leaders lapped me. I seen where they lifted, where they picked up the throttle, how they entered and exited the corner. Most of the time I could hang right with them for a few laps, until I goofed up. Which was to be expected. I always made sure to give the guys behind me a signal that I was going to the bottom. So I was for the most part out of the way, and they could get by me.

The one bad thing about renting a track is tires. You will go through a lot of tires. So make sure you have a bunch of used sets to run.

I am sure the schools are good, and you will learn alot. If your car handles decent, and you aren't struggling to get it to work. Then renting the track might be your best and most affordable option.

[Rocky]

Well, I know I need those laps and what not but I'm reading about guys bogging down little motors with so much bite, I apply the pedal and pretty much blow the tires away unless the car is just about pointed totally straight. I don't exactly have a Jay D!ckens engine. I need to figure some stuff out, the good news is we can't get very much worse. Only thing that would be worse would be wrecking somebody else that's just trying to avoid a flopper.

[Rocky]

I spent the beginning of my racing "career" under an A frame changing motors in the side yard in bombers when I was 12 years old back in the late 80's cause Dad was too cheap to buy a cherry picker. I've been trying to race and either not having enough money or time ever since. I was a rookie at Auto City Speedway up in Michigan the same year Brad Keselowski was lost a used motor night one, built a new one but never got the car back together, the motor ended up in my street Camaro I was 21. Then I got to Maryland after a 5 year tour in Japan and raced at Potomac in the Hornet cars. Then I made E6 and my wife told me to go ahead and get a late model and I did even though I knew that my driving experience just wasn't enough. I'm not as cheap as my Dad was but I might be as stubborn I mean something COULD be wrong with the car. I never been this out to lunch in my life. I got to be honest I was LUCKY to have my guys with me the other night I'd have made NO laps without them. I don't mind being the slowest guy at the race track, I just don't want to embarrass my help. I'm lucky to have it yes I fed them Steaks and I'll keep doing it... But I'm not in the position of being one of the "kids" no more. I don't want them to think that I'm not trying to be fast. That's why I quit helping my own Dad and moved on to helping faster guys (on asphalt though). I'm still Active duty and deploying really soon. I'm not making excuses, it's all actually true. I just thought that there's guys that have raced a lot less than me and done okay in these things. I thought as the country song goes, why not me?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Is there another racer you could get to drive some laps in it for you? He could tell you how the car is working.

[Rocky]

Is there another racer you could get to drive some laps in it for you? He could tell you how the car is working.

I'd dang near pay somebody to but I've only lived here about a year and I don't know anybody anybody that I think is a good shoe that is yet.

The inner wrench turner knows it isn't right though.

[Rocky]

Like I say I KNOW that I chose a double black diamond after only playing on the kiddie slope. I KNOW that's stupid. Anything that helps I guess, I mean I was gonna do a modified... which would highlight my inabilities even more.

[FF21]

Just keep at it you'll get it figured out with time and work.Trust me I know... coming from a person that bout wiped one out under caution...LOL.When I first started I was 42 and started out in a latemodel and had never drove a circle track car in my life.After the first couple laps I was like what have I got myself into now...LMAO.My car was like you say yours was.It would snap around and carry on because i had no clue how to set these things up.Then I finally talked to one of the good drivers from the area and he told me some things to change.Well I changed the stuff he talked about and what a difference it made.It was like going from a ford escort to a cadillac.Thats when it started to get enjoyable.Before that I was like surely to god these things are'nt suppose to be that hard to drive.When getting advice from someone think about it because some guys don't alway shoot you a straight line.Take this stuff serious but not to serious and keep it fun it will be alot more enjoyable to you.

[joedoozer]

We race on a budget as well, a budget almost everyone wouldn't even try. If you have an older chassis, pre-2002. You will find the base line set up, is waaaaaay off. They weren't tying down the RF and hike the LR back then. If they were, it wasn't the baseline. My car was skating around totally out of control with the base set up. You need to ask yourself. What isn't my car doing? Mine was not pinning the RF, or hiking the LR. On a budget I had to decide what to buy first. A RF shock or a LR shock. And that is how I attacked my handling problems. With help of a few people on 4m, 1 or 2 guys at the track, and a whole bunch of trial and error.

[Matt49]

My first late model was setup BY THE BOOK and had good stuff on it. I knew what I was doing with setups long before I ever had the money to get my own stuff and start driving. My only previous racing experience was in go-karts for 12 years off and on and we won a bunch of races and championships. So I thought, "how hard could this be". Second lap of hot laps I spun it on the front stretch right in front of the flag stand!!!
These cars can be a handful even when setup properly if you don't know what it is supposed to feel like and how to drive it. It takes seat time and it make take someone doing some mentoring to get the feel for it.
For tacky tracks you really just have to get up on the wheel and drive it like you stole it sometimes which in my opinion doesn't take much skill. If the car will turn and you've got a motor, it's hard not to be fast when the track is fast. But slick tracks can be very challenging. Some of the best driving advice I ever got for slick conditions was NO SUDDEN MOVEMENTS. Slow your feet and hands down and resist the temptation to jerk the wheel, punch the throttle, or stab the brakes when the car doesn't act just perfect.
Have you ever been driving down the road on your way to dinner while your significant other is putting on here makeup in the passenger seat? Then as you approach a stop light you catch yourself EASING on the brakes more than you usually would because you don't want her to gouge her eye out with the eye-liner thingy? And then you feather the gas leaving the light so she doesn't end up with foundation in her eye brows? That's how you drive a slick race track. Slow is fast.
If you're sliding completely sideways on a slick track and throttle up, you ARE going to buzz the tires. A tire only has X amount of traction available and that is in every direction. If you use up 95% of the available traction on side bite, there is only 5% left for forward bite. So if that tire could normally handle (for the sake of example) 300 HP before spinning, not it is going to spin with just 15 HP applied to it.
Crude example and not completely scientific but it illustrates my point.

[Rocky]

My Dad says, Dude maybe you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. You do realize it's a dirt late model, right? Hmm, maybe my Dad is right.

Edit, I'm just gonna put some wedge in it and see what it does That's what I'd do if somebody else was driving it. We gotta miss this week too much work going on getting ready for cruise, I should have just shelved this year. One more chance next weekend then it's 9 months to think about it for hard times racing.


My racing team is trying to keep diesel prices lower so the fans can have their precious car counts.... (REALLY) AM1(AW) Jake Riethmeier (Mi) owner driver, AM3 Scott Murphy (Ut), Crew Chief, AM3 Robby Joe Allen (Tx) Tire Man/Mechanic, AMAN Nick Gasper (Il) Truck driver/mechanic. I, the first guy up there and every one of these dudes are Active duty US Navy getting ready to deploy on USS Dwight D. Eisenhower. We don't go around waving a flag in the face of the guys we race, we only wish to be the same as them and the only flags we want to see are the green white and checkered. I just kind of thought that my boys deserved a tiny bit of recognition. We love this stuff and sometimes the crew swells to like 8 guys like last year when we had a 4 cylinder and a late model (with only one race). We get one more chance before the pain sets in.... Aw hell Maybe 2 chances. These kids are GREAT mechanics, you should be proud that they represent your country I'm proud that they volunteer their free time to work with me. We believe in ourselves against all odds... it's what we do. I just want to represent my guys the proper way. This ain't got jack to do with rank either, I'd build any one of them a race car. My last year guy traded in his stripes for a soccer ball........ I fired him as crew chief although he's still a dang good man. That's just a little about us. In case anybody want's to hear it. WE aren't in the excuses business, we ARE in the results business and if you can help, we sure would appreciate it.

[HighMaintenance2007]

MIKE DUVALL still rolling along with classes & individual sessions.

www.MikeDuvall.com

[andy16]

rocky pm me. ive made a bunch of laps at county line finished 7th in points . iv always raced on a budget. there are a few things that could be going on. first you need 1 good crew guy. trying to tune this thing from driver seat is sooo hard. you need someone looking at the car and being able to determin if the car is acting up or is the driver in the wrong groove or using the brake incorrect. my car is sitting in the shop right now my stepdad is going thru dialysis and all kinds o problems and i dont get to the track much lately but would be glad to come and see whats going on giving my 2 cents is easy lol. plus.... county line is no amature track. prob the hardest track ive evr drove or seen. and with how the clay is this year alot of the guys that were winning last year are struggling this year. and theres nowhere to hide with the wall like it is. when i first started there there were a few guys who really ticked me off w there comments about drivers in the way it took me about three months to figure a decent setup . its gotten a little outa hand in my opinion at clr for a budget/beginer racer. its pretty competetive there.