metric clip springs

[willyj]

what spring split to use on metric clip 4/4 rear? I understand the r.f. with metric lowers will prob be 1050. Previous owner suggested 200-300 lb. split and builder is retired or out of bizz. Just cant see using over 100 lb. of split. Car tends to be loose in w/850lf-1050rf.Am i missing something about all metric front ends?

[Kojak_9x]

I've always heard people say they run heavy springs like that but have never actually seen it on any of my buddys cars! I run a RF 650 LF 700 in all the metric mods ive ever owned/drove. Ive been down to 600 on the RF but didnt like it with a tie down shock. The biggest thing i noticed with the springs/metric 4/4 im running is to have the LF 125-150 lbs heavier on the scales. Im by far not a pro but this helped me out. Good luck!

[Racer111]

I havent seen a car with metric lowers for years.With the nova lowers springs run from 550-850..

[willyj]

Thanks for the replies but it already bottoms out a 1050 now. I understand nova lowers are different. Was hoping someone who ran true all metric could shed some light on this application. Yeah I hear some chevelle guys run stiffer on the lf,just looking to, better this car.

[Kojak_9x]

If ur bottoming out with that much spring u either have a spring that is shot or ur ride hights r way too low! What r ur ride hights and where do u measure? Also measure from the ground to ur lower front control arm bolt. Ill try to help u out. I run an all metric front end just cause i have tons of parts! Also what ball joints do u run?

[willyj]

If ur bottoming out with that much spring u either have a spring that is shot or ur ride hights r way too low! What r ur ride hights and where do u measure? Also measure from the ground to ur lower front control arm bolt. Ill try to help u out. I run an all metric front end just cause i have tons of parts! Also what ball joints do u run?

Measure from top of lower c/a to the bottom of spring bucket on frame. 3.5" rf 3.0" lf. Unsure of balljoint as they came in car,haven't verified exactly what heights. RoushYates springs checked and rated doubt any trouble with those! Rf spring rubber has solved bottoming i would like to check ride ht up to lca bolts vs method were using with homemade tool between lca and frame at spring bucket. From ground to lca bolts how many " and how much diff l-r?

[dirttrackrocker]

I ran an all metric GRT last year. I was bottoming out with a 1050 also. I went to 1100 and raised ride heights to 8" from lower control arm bolts to ground.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Go left heavy with the springs and it will reduce the rf travel and tighten the car.

[willyj]

I ran an all metric GRT last year. I was bottoming out with a 1050 also. I went to 1100 and raised ride heights to 8" from lower control arm bolts to ground.

Both rf lf 8"?

[willyj]

Go left heavy with the springs and it will reduce the rf travel and tighten the car.

Swap ones I have 1050lf 850 rf or how much split ya talking?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Swap ones I have 1050lf 850 rf or how much split ya talking?

I don't have much experience with mods and none with all metric components on the front. I just know that going that route would allow you to run the rf spring you have. I would probably try 1200lf and 1050rf unless someone who knows better says that is stupid. I ran 1400lf and 1000rf in a metric street stock and was very fast. That is a different animal, but gives you an idea.

[dirttrackrocker]

I wouldn't go less than 1050 on RF. You can go heavier on LF but, I wouldn't go more than 50 - 100 #

[willyj]

Verified the ride hts were over 8" from ground to lca bolts! To late in week to get new springs. Left the 1050 rf found 70 duro full spring rubber to go on lf. 850. Thanks for all replies,have a lot to try now!

[SRXtripman]

Ive had the same isues with mine until we did some outside the box thinking, i raised my ride heights to within an inch or so of 8" , and went to a 650 rgt, 750 lft, with a tie down shock. Metric lowers, spindles and adjustable uppers.

[willyj]

Ive had the same isues with mine until we did some outside the box thinking, i raised my ride heights to within an inch or so of 8" , and went to a 650 rgt, 750 lft, with a tie down shock. Metric lowers, spindles and adjustable uppers.
Ain't saying it won't work just don't seem logical! Have read Mr Adams post along with the motion ratio post's. I think lighting chassis used metric for years and he suggested a min of 1050rf. Mine's not a lightning so who's to say soft won't work. Rained out sat gonna try 1125 rf 1050 lf. I do have a 750- 850 lying around, may just try them. We are running the bottom on a 1/4 mile so?

[willyj]

What logic are you using?


The stiffer spring in front ALWAYS gets more wt and supports more wt.. Add to that the fact your turning left and theres banking and you add two more huge amounts of wt to the rf...

youve got a 200lb plus split, you could practically take out your lf spring

Agree too much split! Logic is based on motion ratios of chevelle,nova,metric lca's .

[cavemod]

I do use metric on metric and I tried the 1050 in the rf and couldn't get the rideheights low enough .currently I have an 850 in the rf and a 950 in the lf and yes it does bottom out .I even chopped notches in the frame till the tie rods hit now.Just about everyone I talked to that has ran all metric stuff says this is a common issue unless you convert to nova lowers.I have also talked with don about spring rates and ride heigths and he told me the c/a bolts should be even or try to get the bolts 1/4 to a 1/2 inch lower then the center of the balljoint.I've ran metric metric for years now with not very good success but my best results came on a slick track with a 900 rf spring. generally the car is tight tight tight on everything but slick and has a wicked mid corner push on or off the gas .I know a guy that won 27 features in one year using all metric and he told me he ran a pair of 800s my best advice that i tried to help the car was something totally non related>RAISE the jbar up 1 1/2 inches on both sides in the back made a ton of difference car actually was driveable! he said the rear was way over driving the front.til my trans clutch decided to stop working good luck though

[willyj]

I do use metric on metric and I tried the 1050 in the rf and couldn't get the rideheights low enough .currently I have an 850 in the rf and a 950 in the lf and yes it does bottom out .I even chopped notches in the frame till the tie rods hit now.Just about everyone I talked to that has ran all metric stuff says this is a common issue unless you convert to nova lowers.I have also talked with don about spring rates and ride heigths and he told me the c/a bolts should be even or try to get the bolts 1/4 to a 1/2 inch lower then the center of the balljoint.I've ran metric metric for years now with not very good success but my best results came on a slick track with a 900 rf spring. generally the car is tight tight tight on everything but slick and has a wicked mid corner push on or off the gas .I know a guy that won 27 features in one year using all metric and he told me he ran a pair of 800s my best advice that i tried to help the car was something totally non related>RAISE the jbar up 1 1/2 inches on both sides in the back made a ton of difference car actually was driveable! he said the rear was way over driving the front.til my trans clutch decided to stop working good luck thoughYep all you just said! Sounds like a Rhulman conversion might be in order this winter.

[HEAVY DUTY]

I do use metric on metric and I tried the 1050 in the rf and couldn't get the rideheights low enough .currently I have an 850 in the rf and a 950 in the lf and yes it does bottom out .I even chopped notches in the frame till the tie rods hit now.Just about everyone I talked to that has ran all metric stuff says this is a common issue unless you convert to nova lowers.I have also talked with don about spring rates and ride heigths and he told me the c/a bolts should be even or try to get the bolts 1/4 to a 1/2 inch lower then the center of the balljoint.I've ran metric metric for years now with not very good success but my best results came on a slick track with a 900 rf spring. generally the car is tight tight tight on everything but slick and has a wicked mid corner push on or off the gas .I know a guy that won 27 features in one year using all metric and he told me he ran a pair of 800s my best advice that i tried to help the car was something totally non related>RAISE the jbar up 1 1/2 inches on both sides in the back made a ton of difference car actually was driveable! he said the rear was way over driving the front.til my trans clutch decided to stop working good luck though

Dont put too soft of a spring in to get the ride height down.They make 8 and 8 1/2 tall springs.If you are bottoming on your tierods that might be your mid corner push.The slick track with less corner speed isnt gonna lay on the tierods as hard or as long which is probably why the car is better in the slick.Raising the jbar up might have helped because it unhooked the rear, but the car would be better if the front turned better without taking rear traction away.

[willyj]

Dont put too soft of a spring in to get the ride height down.They make 8 and 8 1/2 tall springs.If you are bottoming on your tierods that might be your mid corner push.The slick track with less corner speed isnt gonna lay on the tierods as hard or as long which is probably why the car is better in the slick.Raising the jbar up might have helped because it unhooked the rear, but the car would be better if the front turned better without taking rear traction away.

Yep the paint on my frame is rubbed off from contact with the rf tierod. I dont know how much contact it'll take to cause trouble,but the evidence is there. Yes 8'' springs can be purchased thru Suspension Spring Specialist.

[cavemod]

Dont put too soft of a spring in to get the ride height down.They make 8 and 8 1/2 tall springs.If you are bottoming on your tierods that might be your mid corner push.The slick track with less corner speed isnt gonna lay on the tierods as hard or as long which is probably why the car is better in the slick.Raising the jbar up might have helped because it unhooked the rear, but the car would be better if the front turned better without taking rear traction away.

Who makes these springs ??all I can seem to find are 9 1/2 ".I've even considered taking a plasma cutter to my 9 1/2's.

[willyj]

Who makes these springs ??all I can seem to find are 9 1/2 ".I've even considered taking a plasma cutter to my 9 1/2's.

Suspension spring specialist! 5.5/8.0-500#- 1500#. Day motorsports among other have/em $45. Is a common price.

[SRXtripman]

Two things ive tried all the above and nothing worked, i had a streetstock guy who is a setup king in our area explain it to me. My car pushed like a bulldozer , when i corrected it id either shoot to the left or overcorect and end up shooting towards the outside wall. After getting schooled in how our suspensions work i started thinking how i could make it work for my driving style. You want to start with jets recomended setup front and rear with only a 100#the difference up front, your springs should be 5 1/2 x 9 1/2 600 or 650 rgt or 700 or 750 lft front. The J bar pinion mount wants to be as low as you can go in the pinion mount , the frame side wants to be around 3-5" above the pinion side this angle will allow your rear to come up and off the bars controlably. Rember this to heavy of a spring in the front will not allow your car to transfer to the left front creating your bite witch allows you to steer it. Its like a pendulem .

[cavemod]

Two things ive tried all the above and nothing worked, i had a streetstock guy who is a setup king in our area explain it to me. My car pushed like a bulldozer , when i corrected it id either shoot to the left or overcorect and end up shooting towards the outside wall. After getting schooled in how our suspensions work i started thinking how i could make it work for my driving style. You want to start with jets recomended setup front and rear with only a 100#the difference up front, your springs should be 5 1/2 x 9 1/2 600 or 650 rgt or 700 or 750 lft front. The J bar pinion mount wants to be as low as you can go in the pinion mount , the frame side wants to be around 3-5" above the pinion side this angle will allow your rear to come up and off the bars controlably. Rember this to heavy of a spring in the front will not allow your car to transfer to the left front creating your bite witch allows you to steer it. Its like a pendulem .

I'm not sure I can follow that advice.Remember we are talking about metric midsized mods(not streetstocks)with metric lowers which have a motion ratio of 23% versus jets chevelle and metric impala stubs which have a 35% motion ratio or in other words650x.35=227.5 for the chevvelle while 650x.23=149.5 isn't that a little light???As far as j bar goes i had mine center of pinnion and 3 to 5 up on frame and it made no difference.The biggest thing we are struggling with is the push that happens when the frontend components bottom out whether its the shock, lower, or tie rods.From what I've encountered there is no problem getting weight to transfer to the front if i(we) are bottoming out.

[racinjj]

I'm not sure I can follow that advice.Remember we are talking about metric midsized mods(not streetstocks)with metric lowers which have a motion ratio of 23% versus jets chevelle and metric impala stubs which have a 35% motion ratio or in other words650x.35=227.5 for the chevvelle while 650x.23=149.5 isn't that a little light???As far as j bar goes i had mine center of pinnion and 3 to 5 up on frame and it made no difference.The biggest thing we are struggling with is the push that happens when the frontend components bottom out whether its the shock, lower, or tie rods.From what I've encountered there is no problem getting weight to transfer to the front if i(we) are bottoming out.

I cant believe you are bottoming anything out with how bound up your front end is. Too many people focus on the rearend trying to get their car working when the front end is really messed up. On metric lowers 800-900lbs springs should be good, if you are having problems with those rates you need to look at your geometry.

[SRXtripman]

Just to clarify this , you are working on a IMCA mod correct , i do run a mod not a street stock , trust me try what i said it will work if not good luck .i tried every concievable spring combo in the upper numbers and it wont work .

[willyj]

Just to clarify this , you are working on a IMCA mod correct , i do run a mod not a street stock , trust me try what i said it will work if not good luck .i tried every concievable spring combo in the upper numbers and it wont work .

mine is a ump mod. Cavemod? I'm beginning to think one could achieve a balance two ways here. One stiff fronts, high j/bar. Two light fronts low j/bar. We did'nt get a chance to try the 1125 rf/1075 lf this past weekend due to a twisted axle. Our dynamic roll center is within a 6'' ball left of centerline. this car has a history of bottoming rf. always had stiff rf. May be overdue for a change LOL as we do have a 750-850 springs on hand.

[willyj]

I cant believe you are bottoming anything out with how bound up your front end is. Too many people focus on the rearend trying to get their car working when the front end is really messed up. On metric lowers 800-900lbs springs should be good, if you are having problems with those rates you need to look at your geometry.

What geometry settings would you suggest to combat this rjj?

[racinjj]

What geometry settings would you suggest to combat this rjj?

Roll center, camber curve, and bump steer are the main ones to look at in the front end.

[karter_2_22]

what spring split to use on metric clip 4/4 rear? I understand the r.f. with metric lowers will prob be 1050. Previous owner suggested 200-300 lb. split and builder is retired or out of bizz. Just cant see using over 100 lb. of split. Car tends to be loose in w/850lf-1050rf.Am i missing something about all metric front ends?

I've ran a full metric frontend in my 04 Loose Gruff for 5 years. The springs that I found to work best is a pair of 750s, but we are on a fairly hard tire. The RF tierod did hit the frame, but now I run a bent one and it's just fine. The control arm itself never bottomed out on the frame. That was in a 2600 LB racecar. It never seemed to matter what was in it for a RF spring as far as travel went...