Critique my scale #'s please

[jsf74]

Put my car on the scales today and Would like to get some opinions.

First set is with me NOT in the ca

Lf 457. Rf 519
Lr 712. Rr 538

Front 976 43.8
Rear 1250 56.1
Left. 1169 52.5
Right 1057 47.4
Cross 1231 55.3
Total 2226

Me in the car

Lf 523. Rf. 527
Lr 836. Rr 586
Cross 1360. 55%
rear. 1420. 57.4
Front 1050. 42.5
Left 1360. 55%
right. 1113. 45%
total. 2472

[jsf74]

Car is a 2005 impressive metric
4 bar lr. Z link rr
Lr eliminator in back shock in front
Rr spring on axle shock in front
Lf 600. Rf 650
Lr 225. Rr 200
3/8 mile high bank dry slick 90%

[kwagner]

I think thats a lot of LR bite which makes for a lot of cross which will tighten up the car.

[jsf74]

The problem I've been fighting is a wicked tight condition can you explain. I hit the gas and the car will NOT turn. We were a ton better last weekend but I think I'm still a mile off.

[cheaterleaddog]

Car is a 2005 impressive metric
4 bar lr. Z link rr
Lr eliminator in back shock in front
Rr spring on axle shock in front
Lf 600. Rf 650
Lr 225. Rr 200
3/8 mile high bank dry slick 90%

1st swap front springs and try it. 2nd soften rf 50#s and try it. 3rd soften right rear

[a1driver]

get your rear split down to about 80-100 which should lower cross. with what you have when you get on the gas it should be very tight

[jsf74]

When I went out last week for the heat race the car was 100% junk. Between the heat and the b main another racer helped me with some changes and the car was a million times better. As a matter of fact it's the fastest it's ever been with me driving it. When you say swap springs and then soften rear are u talking about in the shop while scaling or week to week at the track. Why is the car rotating nice when my lr bite is so high?

[oldtrackchamp4x]

I agree with a1driver. Only change bite before trying other things that were suggested. JMO

[jsf74]

What is the best way to adjust bite. Just jack screw or will spring changes affect this. Just lr and rf right?

[oldtrackchamp4x]

First set ride heights according to builder specs.On my car i put one turn in fronts to two turns in the back as this keeps my ride heights the same. In your case take turns out of RF and LR and put turns in LF and RR. Probably 2 turns out RF and 4 out ofLR. 2 turns in LF and 4 in RR will get you close, if to much go back the other way. If your ride heights change just go one turn in fronts and backs until you get bite where you want it. Springs will change bite so i would just try bite first then you will know if that change helped you or not. You can then try springs. JMO

[jsf74]

Should I adjust bite with me in the car or not. Seems like I need to have my weight in the seat to get accurate #'s.

[cavemod]

Too much lr weight and hence too much cross best thing i can say is set weights to manufactures spec w/o driver thenfind 200 lbs of weight in the seat of the car and record the numbers most cars are set up by manufacturer for a 200 lbs driver you weigh what 240?why is the rf weight heavier then lf??your numbers are why the car is tight probably pushes like a dump truck

[oldtrackchamp4x]

If it was me i would scale car to have , like a1driver said, 80-100lbs of bite with you out of car. You can climb in car after and see what bite goes to so you will have that number also. Plus you should also jot down all your percentages and other weights as well with you in and out of car. JMO

[jsf74]

will do. i am forced to race what i have this weekend but will make some scale changes for next sat. thanks everyone.

[cheaterleaddog]

When I went out last week for the heat race the car was 100% junk. Between the heat and the b main another racer helped me with some changes and the car was a million times better. As a matter of fact it's the fastest it's ever been with me driving it. When you say swap springs and then soften rear are u talking about in the shop while scaling or week to week at the track. Why is the car rotating nice when my lr bite is so high?

I pm'd you

[a1driver]

you dont have to scale it to make changes for this week. Do what was suggested earlier, take 2 turns out of rf and lr- put 2 turns in lf and rr

[jsf74]

K I'll adjust my weight jackers for the hot laps and see what happens.

[cavemod]

you dont have to scale it to make changes for this week. Do what was suggested earlier, take 2 turns out of rf and lr- put 2 turns in lf and rr

I can guarentee this will free up the car some .if its still tight take another turn out of rf and lr and another turn in lf and rr. your original numbers are horrible way too much wedge and that rf should be lighter then lf .I run about 49cross w 56 tail and only 40lbs of bite w/o me in the car and my cross goes down to 48.4 and wedge goes up to 75 lbs when i get in.

[jsf74]

Well it took all of about 10 minutes to adjust all corners 2 rounds. If I'm still tight should I change 1 more round or increase rr air pressure. Right now I'm at 10lbs. Adding pressure will load that tire and take some more bite and cross out right? I've seen some other fellow racers at around 13 or so.

[Dugger_17]

LF should be about 35-50 pounds heavier then the right front. Remember heavy spring gets the weight so by the right front starting out with the weight and having the bigger spring it gets all the weight. Id bet that if you check your RF tire temp when you come off its burning hot. When right front has the weight left rear loses bite. Common mistake it to try to adjust more drive into the car thinking thats the problem. I would say your bottom bars are way to low this causes the car to push like crazy I would move each bottom bar up one hole on the chassis side (guarantee it will free it up a bit). I would do exactly what most have said I would swap springs 650 in LF 600 RF or 600 / 600 is what I run I would put at least three rounds in the left front take three rounds out of the right front put 4 rounds in the right rear and take 4 rounds out of the left rear. Also if you have a RF shock with higher rebound will help. But any more than 100 lbs of left rear is just to much. I had the same problem your having and adjusted my self so far out I had to take it to the chassis builder to get back to where I needed to be...Just my thoughs.

[jsf74]

Last week I moved my lr lower bar up one hole and it helped free the car up quite a bit on entry. On the rr I run a z link that's level at ride height. My bar locations are where the previous owner had them and the car was very fast. Not saying it's right but it was proven for the last guy. I will swap springs after the races and take some practice laps and see how it feels. I adjusted two rounds everywhere so far. I don't want to stack adjustments too much.

[jsf74]

If I jack my rear how much should my rr tire come up off the ground before the lr. I know this is how they did it in the old days.

[Dugger_17]

That is hard to say some cars have a chain that limits that and it all in where your bars are set. I wouldnt try to go off of that. But stacking changes wont hurt as long as you know what each change is supposed to do. When I went to the chassis builder we spent 3 and a half hours changing stuff just to get it close to right. I just hate for you to fight a car week after week and not make gains. It will frustrate the heck out of you... I would say take a big swing at it first shot and if its to loose back the changes off one at a time... It will come to you eventually. And some guys can run really radical setups because of how they drive. He might have wanted it super tight so he could trail brake it and get the back end to swing around... Lots of different things to do to make a car turnor not turn. And you can drive them in such a way that makes the car loose or tight. Hit your marks lap after lap and eventually youll get where its fun to drive. Slow is smooth, but smooth is fast....

[jsf74]

You say that the lf needs to weigh more than the rf. Won't adding rounds to the lf and rr and subtracting rounds from the rf and lr help this? Man I wish I owned my own scales!

[oldtrackchamp4x]

Yes. Go race the car.

[cheaterleaddog]

You say that the lf needs to weigh more than the rf. Won't adding rounds to the lf and rr and subtracting rounds from the rf and lr help this? Man I wish I owned my own scales! Those screws are used to set ride height. I know your not in a nextell cup car, but when was the last time you saw them use a weight jack, maybe after a spring rubber adjustment they might use a weight jack. otherwise they adjust panhard bar angle for the most part. I also pm'd you.

[1Blacksheep]

4 bar cars do not need that much wedge with Z right. Those are swingarm numbers you are running. The RF should never be more than the left on anything and make any speed on anything but a greasy slick track . When running stiff RF springs you must run more wedge than normal to get it to drive the LR and it WILL work but it will also sacrifise side bite and entry tightness. Cars rotate really well tho when set up this way off the gas. But thats when the LR 1/4 panel gets wrinkled.

[really?]

this is our old car it won 5 in arow before it was parked the springs in it are fine but you only need 40lbs of split in the rear and dont worry about the front and if you use a jack with a socket like they used in the old days under rearend the rr will come off the ground about a half inch before the left rear ,the car needs to be where brian told you and the problem is all that left rear is absolutely your problem nothing will turn with your numbers they are right about swing arm numbers!

[powerslide]

this is our old car it won 5 in arow before it was parked the springs in it are fine but you only need 40lbs of split in the rear and dont worry about the front and if you use a jack with a socket like they used in the old days under rearend the rr will come off the ground about a half inch before the left rear ,the car needs to be where brian told you and the problem is all that left rear is absolutely your problem nothing will turn with your numbers they are right about swing arm numbers!

Everyone drives different he will have to find a happy medium that fits his style.

[jsf74]

Yeah that's true but unfortunately last week was cancled because of the heat. I am going to see what happens this week with all corners adjusted 2 turns. By next week I should have a set of my own scales so I'll try to get it perfect. A few things are different for me driving compared to Brian. First I am about 200hp down on power and our tacky is proably more like your dry slick. Were getting closer every week and thanks everyone so far.

[jsf74]

I thought I would share my scale #'s after the adjustments some of you recommended. I think were getting closer but I don't want to go too far. Well see what it does today and go from there.

Lf 507. Rf 474.
Lr 662. Rr 588
Cross 1136 50.91%
left 1169. 52.39%
Rear. 1250. 56.02
total. 2231
Lr bite 74

[jsf74]

Thanks everyone the car is wicked fast and getting better! I was cruising in the heat in the transfer spot when some jack a s s punted me. O well we finally have a car that drives and is at least a top 10 car if I can stay out if trouble. Thanks again!!! I see a heat or b main win in the near future.