Need Help Bad!!!!!

[Flan38nery]

okay im an 18 year old kid and this is my second full season in a modified and my dad who owns the car has put a good amount of money in it this year for me. we had got a motor shipped from florida up here to illinois and the car went out and we led the entire heat race and blew up coming to the white flag. now they sent us a new motor with more horsepower and the car has been a stuggle to get right ever since. well at first the car was just very loose on exit. i would have to wait to get on the throttle as i watched everyone else hook up and take off. well my dad did some adjustments the next week. in hot laps we pulled away from the man who ended up finishing 5th in the feature and we passed the winner of the feature. so i go out for the heat and the track has slicked off a little and i was loose as soon as id get to the middle of the turn all the way through the exit. finished 4th. come feature time we made some small adjustments. the track was very slick as it is every weekend, well i get a good start but fall back because the car was terribly loose. as soon as i would lift off the gas the rearend would step out on me and never come back. again im watching everyone hook up and take off as im waiting on the tires to hook up before getting on the throttle.
this has become very frustrating, knowing the money my dad has invested and knowing we have the power and i can drive with them guys we are just clueless of the set up. i would just like some help. i dont even know where to began so if you guys could help me out i would love it. ask anything! i know everything about the car just clueless on how the suspension works fully i guess :(
help please!

[charcoal01]

You need to post clip, springs, shocks, bar angles, percentages. Then we can give you more help.

[HEAVY DUTY]

okay im an 18 year old kid and this is my second full season in a modified and my dad who owns the car has put a good amount of money in it this year for me. we had got a motor shipped from florida up here to illinois and the car went out and we led the entire heat race and blew up coming to the white flag. now they sent us a new motor with more horsepower and the car has been a stuggle to get right ever since. well at first the car was just very loose on exit. i would have to wait to get on the throttle as i watched everyone else hook up and take off. well my dad did some adjustments the next week. in hot laps we pulled away from the man who ended up finishing 5th in the feature and we passed the winner of the feature. so i go out for the heat and the track has slicked off a little and i was loose as soon as id get to the middle of the turn all the way through the exit. finished 4th. come feature time we made some small adjustments. the track was very slick as it is every weekend, well i get a good start but fall back because the car was terribly loose. as soon as i would lift off the gas the rearend would step out on me and never come back. again im watching everyone hook up and take off as im waiting on the tires to hook up before getting on the throttle.
this has become very frustrating, knowing the money my dad has invested and knowing we have the power and i can drive with them guys we are just clueless of the set up. i would just like some help. i dont even know where to began so if you guys could help me out i would love it. ask anything! i know everything about the car just clueless on how the suspension works fully i guess :(
help please!

You answered your own question. Detune the motor when the track slicks off.If your motor isnt smooth, there isnt any adjustment you can make to the chassis to fix it.This is a very common problem, and most guys dont realize it when they have it. A motor that isnt smooth wont let you get into the corner or off when it is slick. That isnt saying that there isnt a chassis problem, but an engine problem will keep you from being able to fix the chassis problem.

[docbolton]

try a willys slick track carb if u havnt their awsome

[Dirtrunner35]

Faster as car goes the chassis might need a little tuning , more gee's it has on it. Throttle control !!!! How many more horses ?? On a slick track it's all about finding the moisture. Give more details about car.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

If you are jumping off the throttle on turn entry, that will make you real loose especially if the track is really dry and this motor has real high compression. You need to roll off the throttle SLOWLY. Try slowly rolling out of the throttle only about half way, about 50 feet sooner than you have been. That should tighten your entry and help with your exit if the car is close on the setup. Works for me. JMO.

[Flan38nery]

well the car "we were told" is a pierce knock off. the track is a always slick flat 1/4 mile. its a metric front end. im not sure on the springs ill have to ask my dad when he gets home from work but tonight i took the j-bar off and put on the straight bar because that helped us last rear in the summer. i moved the lower right side 4 bar back up a hole because we moved it to the bottom and it was rubbing the tire :X but i took some pictures tonight while working on it so you guys can take a look at them and see if you notice anything or have any suggestions. oh in the pictures the frame was on jackstands and the rearend was all the way down. thank you guys

http://i.imgur.com/lfBeh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g94nv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LlV2O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HdEPj.jpg

[Flan38nery]

http://i.imgur.com/sEtj4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mJ8z4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jpNJa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Tx5y9.jpg

[Flan38nery]

http://i.imgur.com/SMRIW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5TLm8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/viLYX.jpg

[mod54n]

Take that biscuit bar off there and put a spring type pull bar on and you'll have better drive off the corner! I ran a biscuit bar last year and my car was junk on the slick. I was experiencing the same problems that you are explaining, then we switched to an afco 3 way pull bar and the car is way better of the corner.

[let-r-eat]

Too rigid for the slick. Shocks the tires and done.

[Flan38nery]

what type of pull bar are you talking about??? we have another kind of pull bar but im not sure what it is?
and sorry for sounding stupid but i dont understand by what you mean by rigid? like the springs to stiff??? what do you mean by the tires? both the rear tires are brand new just bought them last weekend between the heat and feature.

[Flan38nery]

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Hoop-Style-Pullbar,24328.html

thats the other style we have but it had broke before and had to be welded back together but we havent ran it since.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spring-Loaded-Torque-Link-Pull-Bar,1937.html

is this the style your talking about?

[charcoal01]

Two questions. Is your lr shock and spring on a solid clamped hooked directly to your axle, behind the axle? If so, that's your first problem. Second, where is your left upper bar? And my first suggestion that's the easiest is lower your right upper bar down at least one hole, if not two when the track gets slick.

[xxxmod]

Move that lead high and left or get rid of it and fill the cell
Remove the 90-10 shock on the rear end
Install new bushings in the pullbar red for acceleration black for braking
Lower the Right UB to the bottom hole
Put the RR spring back on top of the housing
Keep it simple,you are entering on the RR and should be exiting with the LR
Move RR shock to the back of the housing on the bird cage

[oldtrackchamp4x]

If you read his first post, apparently the car handled good before they got the new motor with a lot more horsepower. With him not having a lot of experience driving a mod, i still feel it is the way he is driving the car on entry and throttle control. JMO

[Flan38nery]

the coilover mounts a solid with the rearend yes. i think im going to drop the top right bar before tomorrow night. but i know theres still something wrong. should i have the shock and spring in front of the axle on the lr?
see last year we had the car with the spring over the axle and i liked it, it seemed more responsive. my left upper is on the top hole. so should i go ahead and try moving the left shock and spring an put the rr back over the axle and move the bar even though i already put the straight bar on and moved the rear end like a 1/4 inch to the left?

[dualdj1]

the bottom link from speedway, the spring type pull bar, is the one that most people run now. you get more roll in the rear end than with the biscuit bar, and it's more smooth power transition (not as rigid). Other thing, with the straight bar, you can tighten it up a lot by moving down on the chassis and pinion. Your rake looks pretty good, so go down even on both. Spring stuff is just personal preference. I believe going on the clamp bracket in front (left side) is supposed to tighten it up a lot as well.

[powerslide]

LR clamped behind is strange. Never seen a car like that.
I would either clamp it in front or float it behind.

And this one might piss you off but GO WASH the car. EVERY WEEK. Take the tires off if necessary to get it all good and clean
Take the bars loose at the birdcages and rotate them. Are they free? Did you wash the tires after you raced or leave the dirt on all week?
It looks like you need to work on a maintence plan. A clean racecar is a happy racecar you can see cracks and things usually before they become a problem.

[dualdj1]

LR clamped behind is strange. Never seen a car like that.
I would either clamp it in front or float it behind.

yeah i didn't notice that, but you're right. Clamp in front or on birdcage in back. clamped behind won't work well, you won't get any hike.

and x2 on the cleaning.

[Flan38nery]

the bars are all free i check that all the time, thats a pet peeve of mine. well im going to move the lr coilover to in front of the rearend and put the spring back over the axle and shock behind on the rr. im going to leave the straight bar on but get a longer one so i can drop it down a hole and get more pinion.
then im going to mover the right upper bar down. i would love to change the pull bar but we dont have one handy or the money really this week. um any suggestions on anything else i should do for this weekend. oh and if i put turns in the right front , like putting more pressure on the spring, how will that effect the car? thank you guys again so much.

[HEAVY DUTY]

your right side is clamped also.Put it back on top of the tube, or change birdcages to put it on the cage. What you have will drive the rr and unload the lr which will kill your traction when slick. It ought to go good on the hammer down stuff though.

[Crash 4]

I would put a steel straight / panhard bar on there with jam nuts on both ends. I wouldn't trust the way you have it now.
Spring ahead on LR and on top RR will help the car a bunch, and I wouldn't change anymore than that to start with. Should be much better without any other changes.

[mudeater18]

The mounting of the LR coilover is your problem.
If mounted solid to the axle it must be in front so the spring will load under acceleration.
If you keep it behind it must be floated on the birdcage. The way
you have it mounted it will unload the rear spring "or take away bite" while you're on the throttle.
Once you change that you'll be looking for ways to loosen the car insted of tightening it !

[Flan38nery]

Okay guys. i love all the help im getting. i would never get this help from guys around here. so i just got in from the garage and heres all the things i did. i put the left rear coilover in front of the axle with a 200 spring. then on the right rear i put the spring over axle with a 175 and the shock behind the reared.
then i moved my right rear lower bar back down one hole, also moved the right rear upper bar back down one hole ( so back to our base set up). then the left rear lower bar back up a hole.
then i took off my straight bar and got a little longer one so i could add some pinion angle.
ill go out tomorrow night and see how she does. i really appreciate all the help guys. ill be back sunday to let you know how it went.
and if i need anything else ill be back cause you guys are awesome and made me realize so much on this car! thanks for teaching.

[Flan38nery]

hey guys. first off i want to thank you for getting me my first ever modified heat win! it felt great. but after the heat my car got really loose well after the feature me and my dad
caught the fact that our left rear birdcage slid over and moved the rearend to the right which is what im guessing made us so loose. but well get it back and go again. but again
guys i want to thank you so much for getting me that win. it had been a long time coming and i finally got to show my talent as a driver. you dont know how much holding that
checkered flag meant to me and my dad. even though it was just a heat it felt like a feature win to me and its all because you guys. thanks!

[dualdj1]

yeah if anything you want the axle to go left as it slicks.

I also don't recommend those light weight aluminum tubes for panhard; however I've seen guys run them on Lates and not have a problem. We always use the Aluminum Hex tube, it's plenty strong and light.


Now... on the birdcage deal; it really shouldn't change your lateral positioning on your axle. That's what the Panhard bar is for. If your birdcage moves it could still effect your handling, but not from changing the lateral on the axle.

You've got more room on the frame and pinion; drop that straight bar down when it slicks. keep your rake the same though since it was good for the heat; see how far you can go down on the frame first, and then pick the appropriate hole on the pinion to keep rake same. further down the better for slick. If you're not increasing rake much, i'd say go clear down on pinion and as far down as you can on frame. worst case you'll be too tight, and sounds like you haven't had that problem yet.

[Flan38nery]

birdcage did not actually move but the rearend did somehow. nothing seems bent so im going to check to see if anything is binding up.
as for us getting looser as the night went on. it seems "somehow" our left front weight jack got loosened and it had taken turns out as i raced.
so that is what im guessing caused us to get so loose. any other ideas you guys have to help me out next race weekend?

[xxxmod]

Put the J bar back on centered on the pinion with 5.5" split between mounting points.
With the spring on the housing you should have a 200+ spring
Short panhard bars are to inconsistant.