I'm lost, need help badly

[washeduptoo]

At the start of the year, car was getting way too much pull bar travel, now it only gets 1 1/4in. Tried different pull bars, different springs and biscuits, still only 11/4. Tried brand new pull bar, still the same and its not rolling over on rf, got 3 1/2 shock left. Taken all springs, shocks and pull bar off and rear end rotates into tranny. Took all the springs/shocks off front and lowers move freely, uppers move freely, ball jts are good. Just don't know, need help. It makes no difference if track is heavy or slick, still same travel on pull bar and rf.Thanks

[powerslide]

At the start of the year, car was getting way too much pull bar travel, now it only gets 1 1/4in. Tried different pull bars, different springs and biscuits, still only 11/4. Tried brand new pull bar, still the same and its not rolling over on rf, got 3 1/2 shock left. Taken all springs, shocks and pull bar off and rear end rotates into tranny. Took all the springs/shocks off front and lowers move freely, uppers move freely, ball jts are good. Just don't know, need help. It makes no difference if track is heavy or slick, still same travel on pull bar and rf.Thanks

what brand of chassis?

[washeduptoo]

2012 Impressive, called him today and he provide me with some things to look at. If anyone else can provide any thing to look at, it would be appreciated. Trying to race this weekend. Thanks

[HRJ]

How much droop are you getting in your LR, are you running a wrap shock, and is your axle moved drastically to the left from baseline? What's the forward drive like? Driveshaft yoke isn't binding under load?

[xxxmod]

When i was looking at the impressive the pullbar seemed to high on the housing with to much angle at ride height,
High on the housing = less pullbar travel and under braking its trying to push the back of the car down and not pin
the right front.

[washeduptoo]

Will have to measure to see how high pull bar mount is. No dampner shock, lateral set to specs. 4.25 on drop, hardly any forward bite. When car had the rear end to the left about 1in more, it would pull the biscuits into. Not sure if I should move it back there as it had so much travel it broke the jbar and slung drive shaft and you know what other damaged happened. Thanks for the help. I can't run but every other week due to work and time is running out for the season.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

I had the same issue on dry slick. What i did was make the RF ride height 3/16 in lower than the LF, making sure my scale numbers stayed the same. I then put in two turns in LR and raised j-bar 1/2 in on frame side with pinion side 3/8 in below center. These changes were done after setting ride heights and off the scales These changes made a huge difference on my car getting it over on the RF. I have maybe 1/4 in of travel left on the RF shock, when before the changes i had 2 in left. I only get 1 1/4 in travel on my pull bar also but the car is fast. Can't comment on what to do on tacky, as i haven't had that problem. JMO

[powerslide]

Will have to measure to see how high pull bar mount is. No dampner shock, lateral set to specs. 4.25 on drop, hardly any forward bite. When car had the rear end to the left about 1in more, it would pull the biscuits into. Not sure if I should move it back there as it had so much travel it broke the jbar and slung drive shaft and you know what other damaged happened. Thanks for the help. I can't run but every other week due to work and time is running out for the season.

If it was too much of a good thing w/ an inch to the left maybe try 1/2in. I would't go much more than 1/2in either direction from the specs in most cases. Too many other adjustments to use. On the pullbar travel probably wouldnt worry about that either, 1 1/4inches isnt bad.

[HRJ]

When car had the rear end to the left about 1in more, it would pull the biscuits into. Not sure if I should move it back there as it had so much travel it broke the jbar and slung drive shaft and you know what other damaged happened. Thanks for the help. I can't run but every other week due to work and time is running out for the season.

When it slung the driveshaft, did it hurt the yoke or trans output shaft? Yoke/splines will act differently under load than up on jackstands in the shop.

[dlm82]

Do you have your pinion angle set correctly? Just a thought.

[washeduptoo]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to answer them in order. This is a QC if it makes a difference.

Oldtrackchamp, we talked tonight about if car doesn't get on rf, lowering the rf ride ht or it sounds like you raised the lf ht, sounds like that might work better?

Powerslide, I did move the rear end to left 1/4 inch tonight, to see if that helps also.

HRJ, as best I can tell with tranny in car, everything there is okay, drive shaft slides in easy(I really thought that was problem) when I started looking.

dlm82, I checked the pinion angle first, it was 8 degrees.

Things that might be problem is no preload in lr spring(got that fixed) and it appears the slider might have had too much play under load, it leaned a little in the middle toward one side(not centered in spring). Changed that out.

I got the old straight panhard out and taking it with me, I know it will bury that rf. Thanks again and will let everyone know how things work this weekend.

[BlackSlick2008]

Just an FYI... the older Bert trans has shorter splines on the input shaft. They fixed that in the newer ones. So running an 8" yoke would be pointless due to binding issues. If this were to be your problem then its fixable with a lathe. Have done many of them.

If your sure thats not the problem, I would rule out any suspension bind. Once you rule that out, focus on the RC's. Kind of like what OTC did when he moved J-Bar.

[washeduptoo]

Thanks blackslick for the information. Tranny about 2 yrs old and we do run the 8in yoke still thou. The weird thing is earlier in the year on slick tracks we didn't have this problem with pull bar or rf. I did last race move the jbar down on pinion, didn't really seem to help. Thanks again.

[washeduptoo]

XXXmod, I did check the pull bar ht and its 12in above center of axle tube. I guess its about ready except washing(again) and we'll give it a whirl tonight. I'll let know if its improved and again thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

[washeduptoo]

Well car wasn't any better on slick in heat. Haven't measured pull bar travel but it looks close to the same and not rolling onto rf, still had 3.5in of shock left in heat. Lowered the rf ride ht 2rds and put 2rds in lr and it was better for feature and 2.5in of shock left. I'm begining to think its too much jbar rake and going lower on frame for next race in a couple weeks if we get to run. It that doesn't work, going to lighter spring rf and it that doesn't work, going to increase lr drop. Anyway thats the update but we did move forward in feature,just got to keep working at it. Thanks

[oldtrackchamp4x]

What weight is RF spring? How much LR drop? Did you check your RF ride height to make sure it was 3/16 lower then the LF? Check it at the center of the front Aframe bolt before adding or taking out rounds. JMO

[washeduptoo]

Its all set to specs, rf is 600 spring. I didn't measure to see if its lower but will in the shop. It should be still higher than the lf. LR drop is 4 1/4.Thanks

[charcoal01]

If you took two rounds out of the rf and put two rounds into the left rear I think you actually took wedge out of the car. On my car if I take two out of the front I h e to put four rounds back into the left rear in order to come back to my numbers.

[washeduptoo]

Your probably right since the threads are different, but at this point, I'm not really concerned about the wedge, just getting the chassis over on the rf better. Only have 1-2 races at the most left and would like to know what helps for next year. Thanks for the help.

[xxxmod]

XXXmod, I did check the pull bar ht and its 12in above center of axle tube. I guess its about ready except washing(again) and we'll give it a whirl tonight. I'll let know if its improved and again thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

10 - 12 " above centerline should be right but IMO the pullbar angle should be 12 degrees at ride height.
J bars with a lot of rake generally pin the right front,do not exceed 6" difference between mounting points,move the whole thing down to promote roll
When looking at your car is the RR sticking out farther than the RF.... It shouldnt be

[charcoal01]

In my experience bite and/or wedge will help the car onto the rf. as weight transfers fr front the rear your lr will transfer to the rf an so on, so if you take weight away from the lr tire, you will be less likely to transfer that weight to the rf. another thing you need to think about is "helping the car get onto the rf/ right side" as speeds slow down. The slower you are going, the less weight you will transfer. Things like j bar rake and shocks will help this. What shock do you have on the rf and what sorta bite are you running?

[oldtrackchamp4x]

Wash Please check your PM.

[washeduptoo]

Charcoal01
War shocks dry slick pkg and BSB dry slick pkg, both are low compression and slow to rebound with high gas pressure lr. Running 20-30lr bite, I guess I should have said wasn't really concerned about 5-10lbs difference.
xxxmod
The rr doesn't stick out past rf. That is what has me confused, we have enough rake(spec) to make it pin the rf but doesn't.

One of the reasons we didn't catch this problem earlier in the year, was we were running Keyser lowers and thought this was normal since its made different and had to run an extention on shock. Got the Keyser bent and put stock lowers on and that is when we saw the problem. I mostly work on it by myself and only race when time/money allows. Thanks for everyones help.

[Dirtrunner35]

Maybe I missed it somewhere , how does the car handle ?????

[washeduptoo]

Handles good except it really loose entry and on the throttle. We've tightened car up with bars as much as we can. 225 rr spring, IRC said it should be rolling onto the front more and we think that also. 4 different drivers and they all say the same thing. We put the car together so it might be something there but we've put cars together before and no problems.Thanks

[Dirtrunner35]

Is this a spring behind car ???? My straight bar has 8 inch difference in height I think, lowering the rear roll center will give more roll but less weight transfer to the RR. You say your car is loose going in?????????? The rear wants to come around on you???? Is 4 1/2 inches of drop enough ??

[washeduptoo]

Spring behind car. We tried the straight bar in practice 1st of the year and it would bury the rf but we also had brake problems then on rf. I think I might just put the straight bar back on and give it a try in a couple of weeks. Loose on entry and loose on the throttle, it trys to break loose. Just need some traction everywhere. lol
We started 17th the other night and passed a few cars and finished but 9th but needs to get better for me to able to keep racing. (bent lf spindle in heat) Thanks everyone.

[xxxmod]

Rear end housing Straight?
Square up the rearend with the midplate
70-80lbs LR Bite
go 15 points taller gear

JMO

[washeduptoo]

We did go up in gear(5.88-6.02) this past weekend but it was at a track we haven't run but once before. Going to put straight bar on for next race and have a lighter spring for rf if that it that doesn't help. Thanks again to everyone for the help.

[Dirtrunner35]

Spring behind car. We tried the straight bar in practice 1st of the year and it would bury the rf but we also had brake problems then on rf. I think I might just put the straight bar back on and give it a try in a couple of weeks. Loose on entry and loose on the throttle, it trys to break loose. Just need some traction everywhere. lol
We started 17th the other night and passed a few cars and finished but 9th but needs to get better for me to able to keep racing. (bent lf spindle in heat) Thanks everyone.

If your loose going in and get on the throttle it will stay loose on the throttle, is your RR tire burning up?? Tire pressures ? Last year I drove someones spring behind car in practice and spun out 2 or 3 times, didn't like it, way to loose for me.

[washeduptoo]

Think we found the problem, too low of front ride hts. Several contacted me and told me recheck at different place and it looks like its too low there. Maybe springs might be gone but only 10 races old. Will check next week after working these nights. Again I appreciate all the help and suggestions. Will everyone know after we run again.

[Dirtrunner35]

maybe your weight jack bolt is turning ??

[washeduptoo]

Where we were told to measure on this chassis has the measurement specs calls but thats way low compared to where others told me to measure. Will check further next week. Thanks

[dirtmodified28]

Make sure you shocks are not binding up we just found one the shaft was bent on and we had fought this for a month. Put them on a shock dyno and have them tested at high speed and low speed and make sure they are good. JMO

[washeduptoo]

Thanks, that will have to wait to over the winter. We swapped all the shocks out but they could be bad too. Thanks

[washeduptoo]

We didn't get to race because of the weather but car is ready to go. After raising the ride hts using a different check point, then checked where we had been measuring and we had the correct specs. Go figure, leason learned check more than one spot. Let yall know if we get to race and how it works. Thanks again.

[stpmotorsports]

we were fighting the same thing on our Impressive, coar just had no drive, loose everywhere. Jumper went thru everything with us, ride heights were off. Readjusted heights and resqared rearend, it became a totally different racecar. We had to go back and take off all the "crutches" we had been using.

[washeduptoo]

Glad you got yours figured out and hopefully we got ours ready thanks to the help of others. I knew after looking at my notes, we lost it when the Keyser got bent and swapped to stock, just never checked the ride hts somewhere else. I was too convinced it was in the rear somewhere until I changed everything and still had the problem. Then went thru the front end and found nothing, raced and still had problem. Again thanks to all and hopefully we'll get to race before year ends.

[Dirtrunner35]

we were fighting the same thing on our Impressive, coar just had no drive, loose everywhere. Jumper went thru everything with us, ride heights were off. Readjusted heights and resqared rearend, it became a totally different racecar. We had to go back and take off all the "crutches" we had been using.

So what fixed it, ride heights or the rear axle not being square ???

[stpmotorsports]

The rearend was square with the ride heights we were running. After changing all 4 heights, the rearend was out over an inch.
That is a problem I have seen guys make, not rechecking and aligning everything after a chassis adjustment.
Washedup, did you reset front heights to Jumper spec for stock lowers? There is a difference from stock to aftermarket lowers.

[washeduptoo]

Yes we did, reset to his specs for stock lowers after bending the aftermarket. After checking ride hts at different point, saw ride hts were low. Raised them up and it ended up at his specs for stock lwrs but its higher at the other check point. Then reset other ride hts and squareness, scaled car. Hopefully its back. Thanks

[Dirtrunner35]

The rearend was square with the ride heights we were running. After changing all 4 heights, the rearend was out over an inch.
That is a problem I have seen guys make, not rechecking and aligning everything after a chassis adjustment.
Washedup, did you reset front heights to Jumper spec for stock lowers? There is a difference from stock to aftermarket lowers.

That's why I scale mine on my alignment rack at work, to see if anythings changes.

[washeduptoo]

Well we finally got to race again and car was much better. We made the feature out of 44 cars(until wreck in feature) but still needing some forward drive and still had 2in of rf shock rod left. Going to a lighter rf and lf spring, probably going to lighter rear springs also, also probably going to reduce jbar rake. Might only have one race left and going to swing for the fences. Thanks for everyones help.

[washeduptoo]

Well, we're through for the year, race was canceled. Thanks to all for the help and hopefully next year will be better. Happy holidays and great new year.

[washeduptoo]

Just wanted to report back what my brother found wrong with the car since so many have helped me. The stock lower was hitting frame and wouldn't let shock compress any further. He found this with spring out and the shock still in place going thru travel.
The lr slider was actually the shorter rod slider and wouldn't let the b/c rotate far enough. You could get the drop you needed but would bind when you raised the lrb bar. Hopefully nobody will make the same mistakes I made. Thanks again.