Pierce set-up help??

[Dirtwarrior21]

Look for some help on a good starting point for older (square tube) Pierce chassis copy (ride heights, scale percentages, spring rates, and air pressures). I'm running it as a B-Mod/Sportmod with 3-link set-up, any help would be great!!!!

[Dirtwarrior21]

^^^^bump^^^^ ;)

[Dirtwarrior21]

Ok, Scaled the car tonight and this is what I got with me in the car........
Cross - 53.3
Left - 53.9
Rear - 58.5
Bite - 150
Total - 2639
Springs
700 LF 700 RF
225 LR 175 RR
Shocks
76 LF 736 RF
93 LR 93 RR

Is this close, or am I way out of the ballpark???

[Dirtrunner35]

ok, where does your rear springs set ? On axle or arms ? With that much rear % I would think the car would be really tight, so maybe back off some cross, I don't like the 736 on the RF and a 93 on the LR. What angles are your rear arms, j- bar or straight bar ? Pull bar have a spring or biscuit ? You might drive the car and it does good, all depends.

[Dirtwarrior21]

Thanks for the reply Dirtrunner..... Springs set in front of the rearend both sides, as far as the bar angles, R-side, both in the bottom holes (looks almost level)...... L-side, back is in bottom hole, and front 1 hole up.....car is running a straight bar (center of pinion and about middle on frame), and the pull bar has a spring (900). Thanks again for the help. was wondering on what your input is on shocks.. (76 RF and 94 LR ?)

[Dirtrunner35]

94 on lr yes, 96 on RF I would not, will make a tighter car on entry, I would use a 753 myself. How does the car handle ?? Have you driven the car ? What tires ?

[Dirtwarrior21]

I only ran the car once at CCS, entry was tight, then when the car would roll over, I would get back on the gas and the front would wash out mid turn, all kinds of bite off the corner. Tire's were 87 RR, 84.5 RF, 84.5 LR, LF 84.5. Gonna rescale tomorrow, switched rear tires to RR 88.5, LR 85.5 and changed the rear spring to 200 instead of 225. Man I really appreciate all the help, I have no clue on this car, just know it seemed tight on entry and mid turn.... Totally different than my SS!!!! Plus I talked to the original owner of the car today. He told me that it is a Razor chassis built by a guy from around Belleville Il. Said it was a Pierce style front and a Rocket style rear and that the guy only made a few... Leave it to me to get a half-breed.....:p

[Dirtrunner35]

change your right front shock, raise straight bar up a hole on chassis . You took stagger out , that will make a tighter car all over, you might not want that. What kind of tire do you run and what tire pressure ? How long is your straight bar ?

[1Blacksheep]

CCS requires less bite for corner speed. Pierce cars setup really not usable on 3 link other than front ride ht. I would swap the rear springs, keep the short bar angle to a minimum of 3-4 ", 100# bite max with driver,Bottom Bars in the top holes and raise the ride ht in the rear to get 5deg in them if needed.

[Dirtwarrior21]

Rescaled the car with the suggestions y'all made and came up with this.....

LF 582 RF 532 50lbs split
LR 783 RR 709 85lbs split

52.59% Left side
57.27% Rear
50.67% Cross
85lbs bite

If I take 2 rounds out of the right front puts me at 61lbs bite. (%'s basically stay the same give or take .1%)

Changed the bar angles to what was suggested.
88.5 E-Mod (15lbs) on RR 3" offset.
85.5 E-Mod (8lbs) on LR 2" offset. 3" stagger between RR &LR was 2.5"
84.5 E-Mod (10lbs) on LF 2" offset.
84.5 E-Mod (15lbs) on RF 2" offset.
200lbs spring in LR and 175lbs RR.
700lbs straight across in the front

Ride height's are;
LF 6.75 RF 7
LR 7.5 RR 7.75

I do have a 84.5 LR to give me a stagger of 4", but always heard never wanna really go over 3"....

So...... Do these numbers look better????

[Dirtwarrior21]

Ran the car at Fayette County Speedway this weekend, had the same issue after all the changes, (front washes out when on gas mid-turn). Is this because of the 57.27 rear percentage?

[Dirtrunner35]

Ran the car at Fayette County Speedway this weekend, had the same issue after all the changes, (front washes out when on gas mid-turn). Is this because of the 57.27 rear percentage?

washing out ??? you mean a push ?

[Dirtwarrior21]

Ya, it enters the turn fine, but when I start picking back up on the throttle about mid turn, the front pushes straight to the wall. I'm not mashing the throttle, just easing into it. When the track got dry slick, then it seemed as if the car would roll over and rotate around the corner. This is the second time I've driven the car and had the same issue. I dunno if its my driving style or the car setup. I've ran Streetstocks mainly and this is the 1st modified, so maybe its just I have to change my driving style...

[powerslide]

have to ask.... Are you on metric or nova lowers?

[Dirtwarrior21]

Nova lowers

[powerslide]

Almost sounds like something is bottoming out if it does it when heavy but goes away when dry. Usually the other way around problems come up once it goes dry cause you cant muscle the car around anymore.

How much LR drop measuring where a birdcage would be on 4bar cars. Does the car get up on the bars hard?

[Dirtwarrior21]

I'm the first to admit, I'm an IDIOT on this stuff (3 link, 4bar, zbar). Im not for sure what you mean on the LR drop. Car still has the birdcages on it, but their locked. As far as getting up on the bars, It doesn't seem like it, but this is the first time I've ever driven anything like this. LOL !!! I know at CCS it would pull the LF up about 8" - 10" coming outta the turns. At FCS it didn't wanna do nothing but push mid-corner until the track got dry slick, then I could feel the car roll and pull the LF.

[Dirtrunner35]

You just have a very tight car, raise the rear roll center more, that will loosen the car

[bittight]

Try dropping the rf spring rate 50# and get around a 100# split across the nose that'll free you up on the gas, 700's paired up will cause that on gas throttle push, if entry becomes loose stiffen rr 25# or raise rr upper link.. 3-5" rake on n a jbar will help to rotate and keep drive past flagstand also rf shock wise try something with lots of rebound and compression n see if that wont also get u thru the corner better

[Dirtwarrior21]

Thanks alot for all the help guys, this is all new to me with all the adjustments. Just trying to figure it out what I need to do before next season. Like I said before, I appreciate all the help and input, hopefully with all the suggestions, the problem will be gone!!!! Thanks again!!!!!!!! ;)

[powerslide]

8-10in off the ground w/ the LF sounds like too much drop. I would measure where the birdcage is at ride height. Then place jack under the car about where the drvrs legs are and jack it up until the LR just barely comes off the ground. Take measurement again should be between 4-5inches difference. If more i would get a chain to limit travel

[CsR41]

I'm assuming by your tire roll out that you have a 26.5 on every corner except the RR. Why?

You NEED stagger on the front.

[autoshop]

i thinks he's close, I would take the 2" off the lf and have a 3" ther and raise the J-bar up both sides to free the mid turn.

[acts2024]

Sounds like you like the car for the feature right? Do you have a RF brake shutoff? Use that in the heat race to get you to turn in the heat race and then put in back to 4-wheel and go win the feature.