Schoenfeld Header for Rocket

[derricklong38]

And has anyone tried the 2 step header? With the 3 different tube sizes?

Going on a 604 crate.

Finally read the graph i guess, answered my own question

[sj valley dave]

Depends on your engine...Std exhaust port, spread port, SB2 head, etc....anywhere from 1 5/8" to 2" depending on inches and HP...

[dynoman14]

Derrick,
I have been working on headers for 604's for the last 7 years pretty hard and have discovered some pretty impressive gains where others have not.

My headers are way different than anybody elses and only work with my program, I have tunable extensions and collectors as an option. Unless you are doing this you are PI$$ING in the wind as far as headers go. That is why none of you can tell a difference in the headers offered out there as they are all just about the same. Mine are not, You can ask any of my customers if they will tell you???

It all revolves around what you are turning your engine up to and how you have your distributor, carburetor, and ignition system built. Yes all of those things make a big difference. I have chassis dyno tested as much as a 100HP difference in one days work at say 7200rpms. That would be from pull #1 on a Bone stock 604, to draining out the synthetic Mobil 1 they come with and washing out the engine 3 times to get all that crap out of there. Once that is done a proper loaded break in can take place with break in oil. The net results of that process and about 4 hours of work is 25-30RWHP.

If you do not get proper break in the max I have seen on the older 604's is about 440-450, the newer ones are about 20 better if you have a good set of heads on your engine.
People always ask me how can you tell and I tell them you have to take them off and run them on the flow bench to see what they are as you can't tell 15-20cfm's by looking. Some of the original 604 heads are even better than the best new ones if you can find them.

It is from this point that all work can actually begin...

I am a believer that the proper ignition curve, as well as ignition energy curve is essential to the proper acceleration of any race engine 604 included. With this in mind you also have to have you carburetor fuel curve matched to the acceleration curve of the engine as well as the burn curve of the fuel so it is a dual variable system you have to address.

99% of all racers I know or meet run locked distributors, flat fuel curve in their carbs, no clue on ignition systems and required voltage regulation, and for sure no clue on fuel fingerprint
( distillation curve ) and how to apply it to a race engine.

In my world the only thing that matters is how fast can you spin up that 4000#/ 4 Foot Drum. Anything you do to make that better will make the car faster on the race track.

I have always said the most important tuning aspect of a Crate engine is matching the fuel burn curve of the gas you are running to the carb, engine and ignition. I do about 5-10 systems a week for racers all across the country.

[stockcar5]

did you know that dynomans butt buddy "bobby d" ie his #1 customer uses beyea headers. whats that tell you about dynomans header program?...lol.

[Matt49]

post a pic of your headers or your tubing bender or even your welder for that matter

I heard he sold his tubing bender to NASA and Roger Penske is borrowing the welder to construct a new pit cart that Mark designed for him. It can only be assembled using Mark's welder or the wheels end up backwards but it doubles as a hovercraft when done right.

[TeamGRT12x]

For you know it alls, you need to realize that he bends pipe by hand so that the molecules in the steel at the bends don't change position and reverse the flow of the exhaust at .4923459243 GHEIS. Come on.

[derricklong38]

I know we all love Mark, but the question remains.... Why run a 2 step (3 tube sizes) instead of the 1 step??

[twisterf5]

I know we all love Mark, but the question remains.... Why run a 2 step (3 tube sizes) instead of the 1 step??it makes more pressure . same thing on a water hose. crate motors need back pressure . a three tube size will build pressure gradually unlike a two tube that does it all at once.

[derricklong38]

makes sense, so it would be better for wide open momentum tracks? I race at mostly stop and go tracks and I never have run the 2 step stuff.

[twisterf5]

we build our own chassis / so i called them to build us a set to fit this car that was the first year the 3 tube size came out they claimed that they put out 8 more horse and to use the long extensions. with that being said. our team car bent a set of the two tube stile that he ran for two years our car had a steel head in then so i let him have our crate set he picked up 3 tenths on the track. both set were schoenfeld .

[00BusDriver]

did you know that dynomans butt buddy "bobby d" ie his #1 customer uses beyea headers. whats that tell you about dynomans header program?...lol.

Stockcar5, I am sure you have your reasons for wanting to stalk & bash Mark all over these boards. And being a great bomber driver that you are I'm sure you know everything there is to know about engines. But I am getting a little sick of you bad mouthing my son just be cause I posted some facts about our race season and the help we received from Mark. I said nothing that was not true and I never bad mouthed you or your race team.

If your bomber racing career ever brings your sorry ass to the St Louis area please, please be sure and let me know. I would take pleasure in shutting that fat mouth of yours up and if you let me know ahead of time I might be able to throw a junker together to race in your class, so I can beat you on the track too.

Now back to your bashing just leave Bobby out of it!

Joe

[stockcar5]

Stockcar5, I am sure you have your reasons for wanting to stalk & bash Mark all over these boards. And being a great bomber driver that you are I'm sure you know everything there is to know about engines. But I am getting a little sick of you bad mouthing my son just be cause I posted some facts about our race season and the help we received from Mark. I said nothing that was not true and I never bad mouthed you or your race team.

If your bomber racing career ever brings your sorry ass to the St Louis area please, please be sure and let me know. I would take pleasure in shutting that fat mouth of yours up and if you let me know ahead of time I might be able to throw a junker together to race in your class, so I can beat you on the track too.

Now back to your bashing just leave Bobby out of it!

Joe

LOL, another internet tough guy. this will be even more fun now!

[derricklong38]

Anyone else have any experience with the 2 step headers?

[TeamGRT12x]

LOL, another internet tough guy. this will be even more fun now!

When did your class become a bomber?

[TeamGRT12x]

Anyone else have any experience with the 2 step headers?

It all correlates like it did in karting. We ran larger headers with 2 stage on the unrestricted flat head engines. When we were building plate engines, we ran 3 step headers for more initial backpressure. It's the same with a crate engine, stepped headers will help bottom end without hurting top end 9 out of 10 times.

[stockcar5]

When did your class become a bomber?

a few posts ago. we should all trade our cars in and buy crate late models cause we cant run with the big boys. i think every tom, dik and busdriver has one of those things down bobby d's way!