Alternator yes or no?

[ricracer113]

What a good choice of alternator and location when using the Kse fuel pump

Thanks in advance
Rick lee

[johnny v]

never had one on a dirt mod or seen a dirt mod around here run one.... get a good battery and put a small charger on it between the races.....

[jsf74]

One more thing to fail. Good battery and charger every week and be done with it.

[js11]

An alternator is a good idea. You don't really lose any noticeable horse power, nor do you have to charge the battery between races (so you can work on other things or get a hotdog). Best of all, you don't have to worry about voltage issues at the end of the evening, when it really counts. And indeed, keeping things simple is a good rule of thumb, but on the bright side, if the thing does quit working, you still have the battery, so you don't lose anything. You only get stable voltage.

I've run one of those Delco 1 wire alts from speedway for five years with the v-belt reduction pulley. No problems, other than a few extra lbs. I run it off the front of the cylinder head ( RF corner). I've never had weight distribution problems with the set up, either. The only downer is, you do have to run the long iron water pump. I run a heavy old corvette style pump to make it easy and reliable. I understand the long aluminum pumps are a bit unreliable.

This year I'm springing for the mini alternator kit so I can run the short pump (aluminum). Again, it's pretty easy to set up and I've never had issues.

Otherwise, like the other folks say, a simple battery-only set is fine also. Just charge it up after every race.

[twisterf5]

been against it for years. but put one on my late model last year i run it off the back with the ps pump had to make some brackets jones pulleys have the pulleys. did not know if it would work so just got a cheap 79 dollar 1 wire alt from a part store. going to a small one this year. allot less hassle and now only have to run the generator when we need it paid for it self 10 times over just in gas savings.and there was no hp loss on the dyno

[twisterf5]

Why would you guys need to charge your cars at the track are your batterys bad? It takes 2-3 race weeks for my battery to NEED charging.

Often after one night of racing if I use my smart charger it wont even take any charge, I have to use a regular one to over charge.
you must not be running msd or a good coil. try this charge it pull a dyno pull then race it two weeks and put it back on the dyno and then tell me you dont need to charge it. msd runs best over 13.5 volts. not with that said get into crates and some times you can be on the track well over an hour.the way i was showed was on a dyno our dyno man for the last few years has been telling me we needed one. so we were on the dyno and was done he said wait he hooked up a charger to the car on 10 amps then we made another pull picked up 7 hp you may think that is not much but that was in a car that was charged before we left the shop.and 7 hp is cheap hp in a crate no telling that the car lost on a long night.

[Egoracing]

If you ever go to any drag races look around at the top guys at that track. The cars will have chargers hooked up to them. If they do not keep the battery charged between rounds their times slow down. They do run more electronics than the typical oval track car but they run less than 30 seconds per round and some run 2 batteries, we run that much getting the car from the pits to the track.

[twisterf5]

stock car driver. now i can see why you have those red marks. you falling short on this one.

[Egoracing]

How can I fall short? I was on the chassis dyno last Wed and Fri tuning two different motors in my car, I can and do use it whenever I want.

Eitehr way I posted exactly what Ive already done on the chassis dyno, its factual data not my motor builder told me.... Ive posted it on here plenty of times in fact.

I think you have msd and hei confused, hei needs lots of voltage, the plus of a msd is it will work well with less volts.

I run a optima yellow top with 155 reserve minutes, 950 or 1000cca, not the cheapie red top most people run.



I dont even have to unblock Ego I bet to guess what he said.. I heard, I saw or someone told me...... thats how all his posts go.
Really, I have to many people that know me on here and you are still acting like a fetus.

Stock Car posted his "results" with no data to show for it. The dyno could easily have a battery voltage reading on it along with air and water temps. Wish he would post data instead of claims like others on here.

[twisterf5]

Really, I have to many people that know me on here and you are still acting like a fetus.

Stock Car posted his "results" with no data to show for it. The dyno could easily have a battery voltage reading on it along with air and water temps. Wish he would post data instead of claims like others on here.ya thats why when nascar losses an alt they drop though the field like the had a anchor tied to them. well he can always unhook the alt on the family car and see how long it is before the wife is calling him. see ya guys not going to turn this into a dynoman thread.

[Egoracing]

ya thats why when nascar losses an alt they drop though the field like the had a anchor tied to them. well he can always unhook the alt on the family car and see how long it is before the wife is calling him. see ya guys not going to turn this into a dynoman thread.

It is funny you said that, You know for qualifying NASCAR unhooks the waterpump, and all of the comfort electronics and does all the stuff to make them faster by removing drag but they do not unhook the alternator.

[racin6mod]

another side tracked post. you can buy a kit on ebay to run the alt. down low on the drivers side. I have alt. on both my mods for next season one is mounted up high on the left side and the other car is mounted low on the drivers side. I run jones serp. pulleys on both cars this is something I've wanted to do for years.I have race proven alternators they're small and built tuff.

[xxxmod]

What a good choice of alternator and location when using the Kse fuel pump

Thanks in advance
Rick lee

I have been running the 50 amp powermaster alternator with no problems,it mounts on either
side of the engine in front with a pulley that mounts between the waterpump and the fan spacer.
Spendy but a nice set up.

[dirty white boy]

lol, thats funny right there from Ego.. He doesnt even have a race car, never has, why is he wanting to see my dyno run or voltage, my battery DIED I didnt do it cus I wanted to know if I could race with a dead battery, lol.

Nascar is a sanction, they dont lose a alt. They sanction races, maybe you meant when a race car on tv in a Nascar race? They dont drop until their battery is below 10 volts and they have a ton of fans, fuel injection on their cars.

nascar cars have always lost power an fell back when thay incure a charging issue,..not just since the fuel injection has came about,...jeff,..your good at what you do an you have vast amounts of knowledge you could share but its useless to this forum the way your sarcasm drips from your every post...

[powerball]

nascar cars have always lost power an fell back when thay incure a charging issue,..not just since the fuel injection has came about,...jeff,..your good at what you do an you have vast amounts of knowledge you could share but its useless to this forum the way your sarcasm drips from your every post...

couldnt of said it any better! i agree 99% of the time jeff is just a azzhole on here its a wonder people even talk to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HEAVY DUTY]

I like them. Dont have to ever put a charger on. If you kill the motor late in a race, it fires right back up without dragging.I use a small 1 wire unit that weighs about 7 lbs. Sometimes if I am not running it and forget to put the charger on with a yellow top Optima mounted in the rear next to the fuel cell ( with good Quickcar battery cable ) it doesnt crank over very good and I worry about not starting if I kill the motor. Just speaking from experience right or wrong.

[dirty white boy]

i figure it like this,..we try to get all the air an all the fuel into the combustion chamber as we can,..so we want as strong a spark as we can get to ignite as much as possible to achieve the fastest, best possible burn of the air/fuel charge,..an that requires proper voltage.... now if you can maintain proper voltage without a alternator,..kudo's for you! if not,be sure you get right pulleys an good mounts,..took the alt off my car,belts coming off became a issue,...but if i find im losing to much voltage ill be putting it back on...

[twisterf5]

i figure it like this,..we try to get all the air an all the fuel into the combustion chamber as we can,..so we want as strong a spark as we can get to ignite as much as possible to achieve the fastest, best possible burn of the air/fuel charge,..an that requires proper voltage.... now if you can maintain proper voltage without a alternator,..kudo's for you! if not,be sure you get right pulleys an good mounts,..took the alt off my car,belts coming off became a issue,...but if i find im losing to much voltage ill be putting it back on...well maybe that his problem. he run a 2 barrel carb not much motor and not that much fuel. but there more to gain than there is to loose by running one.i build 400+ transmissions a year at my shop do not advertize all my work is by word off mouth so one would think i know that i am doing and they would be right. but i still make phone calls and have to go to the books from time to time.point is we are always learning when you think there is not a better way to do it and refuse to try something that may be better than you have lost the game before you get to play.

[twisterf5]

BRAD you are better with your words than i am and that is what i was saying. we use FRANKIE GOODS DYNO we run our alt off the back to keep it out of the way. still run a HEI very modified one that holds the record on the dyno for torque in a crate. frannkie is still trying to get me to go to MSD. but was sold on the alt when he showed me what we was loosing and as you know we try to keep every thing we can get with a crate. so do you think HEI pull more juice i would not think so but let my know if you can.

[twisterf5]

never said what i had!!! but if you must know it is a MSD HEI you are the one that said HEI used more. and like i said i hold the record on the dyno with it. but that is in a crate i seen no need for a box with a crate motor and still feel that way. but like BRAD said dropped to 10.8 with a charger on it now what if you are not running an alt and you forgot to charge the battery and it was a long race how far did it drop now. you just mad because you are wrong.the thing with you is that you think you are never wrong even when it is infront of you. now i have engines from 4 bangers to 400 + super engine crate is on HEI steel head and super are on a box and both turn over 8000 so i will just keep our alt and you will find something wrong with what some one is doing because that is all you know how to do at this point in your life.

[Werflus]

http://www.racemate.com/
is the ONLY thing we have used from 2001 to now and we still have the original one and it still works great. its k.i.s.s. and clean looking.

[dirty white boy]

well maybe that his problem. he run a 2 barrel carb not much motor and not that much fuel. but there more to gain than there is to loose by running one.i build 400+ transmissions a year at my shop do not advertize all my work is by word off mouth so one would think i know that i am doing and they would be right. but i still make phone calls and have to go to the books from time to time.point is we are always learning when you think there is not a better way to do it and refuse to try something that may be better than you have lost the game before you get to play.

exactly!! closed eyes are as good as blind eyes...

[Egoracing]

Ego, bahaha. funny stuff right there, I dont car if you call me a liar about having a sponsor for six years, your irrelevant to me. Now clearly I am important to you!

Thanks for being a fan!

If I am so irrelevant to you why was I brought into this? You think that is me? Too Funny! If that is me I will GLADLY pay for your entire year of racing in any class you choose for the next 10 years. You must be full of yourself when someone thinks differently and you try to say that it is only one person, do you really think that you are so correct that there is only one person that knows differently? Funny Stuff right there.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

This is really entertaining on a cold Jan. evening. Oh wait, i almost forgot the subject. I charge my battery betweet the heats and mains and it works for me. JMO.

[dirty white boy]

What dont I understand? I can clearly see now that f5, dirty white boy, and you. Are all 3 the same user. All 3 are blind to the FACT that Msd on their own site says what voltage is needed and there is no way there are 3 different people stupid enough to keep saying the same thing over and over and backing each other all the while all three of them keep making statements attacking me clearly with a agenda.


Like I said its clear you 3 have a agenda, pherhaps we found ANOTHER one of dyno mans names since he has had the same agenda.

As for your question, yes I can use the chassis dyno any time I want. They are a sponsor of mine and have been for over 6 years now.

wrong on so many levels...mr clew lives bout 2 hours west of me,...idk who snowapb is but it sure ant me,but he sure seems to have your number an calling you out on your communication skills,....T5 runs my home track some an we've actually meet a time or 3,...i admit i dont know half what ether of yall 3 do bout racing,..thats why im on here,TO LEARN!!! use to learn a lot on here,..but with jeff contradicting an harassing any an every body that dont worship his knowledge,..this forum has become pretty much useless,..just drop by now to see what crazy ramblings dynodummy been posting,..this board could be so full of wisdom an knowledge if peoples ego's were in check...

[twisterf5]

sorry guys had to work. got to pay for these race parts. but been some fun reading.

[powerball]

No instant reply from " rock star driver"?????

He must be hotlappin on one of the Dynos in his fleet......

The sound of his silence is wonderfully deafening! Hope it wasn't the new kid that got him to shut up for a while......He would never live down getting outwitted by a newbie,low Iq,new screen namer would he?

Please tell me he wouldn't just give up like that?

And for the record again, I have seen the f 5 run that twister chassis modified in and around the Carolina's from time to time and the car was pretty good when I saw it....

Rock star driver......don't discount what you don't understand....leads to a very narrow mind.

i dont care who you are THATS FUNNY ZHIT RIGHT THERE !!!!!!!

i think HIS screen name says it all! street stock driver lol what a joke!

oh ya i like to run alternators too

[Egoracing]

If you do a search one of the mags did a test on a low battery with an MSD and found that below XX voltage the MSD was not reliable. Also MSD shows on there web site and in the tech manuals 11-18 volts as operating voltage. That is voltage under load, If you are shutting the car off and getting out and checking the battery then you are not getting a true battery test.

Also something to think about, at what point does the voltage to the coil and tach start making the tach unreliable?

[twisterf5]

If you do a search one of the mags did a test on a low battery with an MSD and found that below XX voltage the MSD was not reliable. Also MSD shows on there web site and in the tech manuals 11-18 volts as operating voltage. That is voltage under load, If you are shutting the car off and getting out and checking the battery then you are not getting a true battery test.

Also something to think about, at what point does the voltage to the coil and tach start making the tach unreliable? dont know were i read it but it said you have to be above 13.5 to keep it at optimal working volts. and would think that it take less to run a HEI. the reason they stay away from HEI is because they brake up at higher RPM'S the way i see it it takes more power to make more spark so would think that a box type system would take more power to run it.

[twisterf5]

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Battery and Charging System

You can have the most powerful ignition available and tuned to perfection, but without a battery to fire things up, you’ll be going no where. The battery is the main source of power for a performance ignition system, and you need to be sure that it’s capable of having the juice you need get the engine fired up. Not to mention to supply the ignition with current and voltage created by the alternator.

There’s more relying on the battery than just the ignition system. The starter is also pulling huge amounts of current to crank over your engine. Adding compression and big strokes adds to this demand as well. Also, any other electrical devices such as fans, pumps, motors, and even fuel injection controls all tap into the battery for voltage.

When looking for a batter, certainly look at the cold cranking amps (CCA) racing. Also look at the cycling, or recovery capabilities of the battery.

Alternators are used on all street cars and even on the majority of race engines (except purpose built drag cars for the most part). The alternator is responsible for producing the electricity that a car draws from the battery while it is running. The alternator generates an alternating current (AC) when it is turned by a belt and pulley system connected to the crankshaft. Inside the alternator, a rotor spins to create a magnetic field. This field is induced into the windings of a stator (around the rotor), and eventually makes its way to the battery as direct current (DC).

If you run a battery without a charging system, it is important that it’s fully charged at the beginning of the race so it has the capacity to power all of your car’s electrical needs through the finish line.

this is off MSD side so not running one will work that all depending on how long you race how much engine you are firing up and what you are powering. but it is clear they recommend running an alt.

[Egoracing]

dont know were i read it but it said you have to be above 13.5 to keep it at optimal working volts. and would think that it take less to run a HEI. the reason they stay away from HEI is because they brake up at higher RPM'S the way i see it it takes more power to make more spark so would think that a box type system would take more power to run it.

HEI ignitions LOVE voltage! The higher the better and I have seen them tested with 18 volt systems and run. You have to have a good one to run in a race application and it has to be set up correctly to get the most from it. When we chassis dynoed our engine we found that after about 20 minutes of run time the engine started dropping power.

[twisterf5]

HEI ignitions LOVE voltage! The higher the better and I have seen them tested with 18 volt systems and run. You have to have a good one to run in a race application and it has to be set up correctly to get the most from it. When we chassis dynoed our engine we found that after about 20 minutes of run time the engine started dropping power.you right to a point. was not getting any numbers that i could compare so just got off the phone with MSD. they said the box will put out more spark energy than HEI but on amp draw the HEI does pull more at low rpm than tapers off the box will pull more amp after 7000. i ask them to compare there MSD HEI VS THE 6AL.
all in all the box is better. i run the HEI just because it is faster to fix than changing out a box or coil. but we do run a box on the big engine.has any one tried the hyfire box and compared them to MSD i run the hyfire would like to know if they are any better or worse.

[dirty white boy]

dang,..a intelligent conversation bout a interesting subject....how da heII did that happen???

[twisterf5]

dang,..a intelligent conversation bout a interesting subject....how da heII did that happen???
well i always strive to be better than i am and don't think i know it all. you got that car ready yet/ya doing to auction tomorrow.

[Egoracing]

If you see "Only one battery" in some of the rules, that is from several years ago when people would run 2 batteries and have them wired to put 12 volts to the car BUT 24 volts to the coil. This is why you also still see some rules say 12 volt battery, that is easy to get past using an alternator that puts out 14 volts OR a 16 volt alternator with the exciter circuit wired to shut the charge to the battery off once it is topped off.
The box is more consistent of a draw on the battery even at lower RPM where it is throwing multiple sparks. HEI are also more temperature sensitive and the performance suffers as they get hotter.

[Dirtrunner35]

I run a alternator always, wouldn't like to charge the battery at the track. A little insurance I guess. The amount of hp it takes to one run would not effect my car. A modified .

Now if I was 2 tnths from the leader every week then maybe, just maybe I wouldn't run one. Monkey see , monkey do is what I see too much. At the track I run at most cars get loose or tight and slow down and nothing to do with the ignition system.

I guess people could run a switch and turn it off when racing if it made them feel better.

[dirty white boy]

well i always strive to be better than i am and don't think i know it all. you got that car ready yet/ya doing to auction tomorrow.

gotta mount up some new tires,..ether rebuild or replace my carb....work on set up...other than that my limited car is ready!! trying to scrounge nuff parts to finish this late model i drug home,but itll be a while on that....got the itch to build a mopar pure stock but been putting calamine lotion on it...lolol

[Racer63]

Got tired of reading thru all the bull but can anybody recommend a good setup to run off the back of the motor. Crate Late with Winters Bell and Bert. Coupler has the teeth on it for a belt.

[race21j]

Got tired of reading thru all the bull but can anybody recommend a good setup to run off the back of the motor. Crate Late with Winters Bell and Bert. Coupler has the teeth on it for a belt.
Check with Jones, they offer( if I remember correctly) a HTP pulley for the alternator. The mount may be an issue for the winters bell.
JMO

[racin6mod]

Got tired of reading thru all the bull but can anybody recommend a good setup to run off the back of the motor. Crate Late with Winters Bell and Bert. Coupler has the teeth on it for a belt.

KRC has a couple set up to pick from one is 160 the other is around 300. the use powermaster alterators.if yyou run a rear mounted powersteeering/fuel pump it's a pretty simple pully change and adding a bracket/alt.