bert travel

[dfhotlm33c]

after bleeding the clutch completely until it streams fluid, and after bleeding the master cylinder, how much pedal travel should there be when the car isn't running?

[rubbinsracin]

Not much. Few inches tops.

[dfhotlm33c]

Ok, so if it's going darn near to the floor, what could that mean? I am bleeding the two person way..person pushes on pedal with bleeder cracked open, then I close bleeder and person releases pedal. I did that multiple times until I was getting a steady stream with no air. I had first bled the master. When the person pushes the pedal it's a pretty stron stream that comes out.

Could the master still be bad, even if fluid is going through the system?
Thanks

[JustAddDirt]

does it have a bleeder on it, or that brake line plug?

[dfhotlm33c]

The master? It doesn't have a bleeder. I disconnect the line at a joint about two inches down from the master, run a line back into the reservoir with the reservoir full. Next, repeatedly pump the pedal until no bubbles rise through the fluid. Then reconnect the line. Then bleed the clutch at the trans. The trans does have an actual bleeder screw. No part of the line is higher than the master, by the way.

[rubbinsracin]

if you put it in low or reverse does the clutch engage?

Could be the combination of master and pedal that allow more travel than another. on an old afco master/pedal combo i only had 1 inch of travel tops...when i switched to a new willwood setup i have 3ish inches of travel. i would say as long as you can engage the clutch fully without bottoming out the entire pedal travel and it works who cares how much travel you have.

[dfhotlm33c]

Wilwood pedals/cylinders. I can't tell if the pedal is bottoming out or if there is actual pressure. Haven't had a chance to run the car yet. Just didn't want to put it all the way down and get to track and find out it's not right....

[rubbinsracin]

put the car up on jack stands and put it in low gear and start the car. then reach in with a broom handle and depress the clutch, without any load on the tires they should not bog the engine at all and allow the clutch to engage and spin the tires. he11, you could probably even just chalk the front tires and jack the car up right on the rear end if you didnt want to put it on jack stands.

[Matt49]

You don't have to run the car to see if the clutch is engaging. Just put it in low gear with it shut off and engage the clutch and have a buddy try to turn the rear wheels. If he/she can't, it's engaging.

[JustAddDirt]

I was wandering if the trans had a bleeder, or the older style plug.

I have had a soft petal b4 and when bleeding it, pump 5 times. u should hear clutch pack's smacking. open bleeder and keep it open until nothing is draining out of the bleeder. repeat, and keep res. full.
I have had it pop air out after the initial rush of fluid when opening the bleeder.

[bigk44]

I have a bert 2nd generation. After bleeding the clutch i had no pedal at all. (atleast felt that way) When I checked the clutch it worked fine. I did have to adjust linkage to get into reverse but the clutch is working great. Best to check like mentioned above it might be fine....

[merc123]

Mine and my buddy's both engage close to the floor. It doesn't start to engage like a brake pedal. I don't get any pedal feedback either. Just feels like soggy brakes and car starts moving forward.

[dfhotlm33c]

Perfect. Thanks so much for all of your help! Played with things a bit. Master is fine. Did the pump five times then open bleeder trick. Seemed to help a bit. merc your description is a perfect replica of mine.

Had helper spin wheels while car in neutral. Put shifter in first, he continues spinning tires, claims it takes more effort..I push clutch, he can't spin tires anymore, so it's engaging perfectly..I release pedal but he still can't move wheels which seemed a bit strange..pulled shifter to neutral, he can spin tires again, then dropped it into high with no trouble...does this all sound like normal operation?

[merc123]

I think mine did drag a little bit when letting off the clutch pedal and were harder. Almost like it does t quite bleed off immediately.

Also make sure you are using a Type F trans fluid and not Mercon. I accidently ran Mercon and the engagement was "off" according to my friend. He said it was different than his (I never drove a Bert before) but it shifted and ran fine. It was the getting going part that was a bit rougher. I put the type f in and drove it down the driveway and it is so much better and easier to get going. May be in my head though.

[JustAddDirt]

F Fluid has more "grit" in it. Engages clutches better.

[fastford]

i had a problem like this one time, the clutch was engaging rite at the floor, i bled and bled and no change, then i decided it was the servo in the trans, maybe it had to much clearance, but it was fine. finaly i checked the master cylinder and found the piston was sticking and not comming all the way back when i let off the pedal, i took it apart and cleaned it good and it was fine, yours may be different but something to think about

[dfhotlm33c]

well it's not going to the floor..when the person pumped the pedal five times quickly, and then I popped the bleeder screw, he said the pedal went much further and actually hit the floor. So, I think it's ok. My only concern now is how it seems to not release the clutches when I release the pedal before shifting to neutral then high...

[rmrc]

When we've had a problem bleeding either a clutch or brake system we've developed a trick. Pump the pedal very rapidly 6-8 times and then release the pedal and wait for 10-15 seconds. Do not open the bleeder! Repeat several times. Every time you do this small amounts of air will be swept back into the master cylinder. You should notice that every time tou repeat this, the pedal will get slightly better.

[merc123]

I take back what I said. Buddies tranny is getting clutches rebuilt. He borrowed one with new clutches and that thing has maybe 1" of travel before engaging. Feels hard almost immediatly. Guessing if it goes down to floor and everything is bled right then it's probably clutches being too worn. Drive ability was night and day. Mine is hard to get started but the new one was cake.