IMCA Open motor guys. Question about this years performance. [Archive] - 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe

charcoal01

07-12-2013, 12:08 PM

I wouldn't say were all of a sudden having traction problems, I just think forward bite or lack there of shows up against the crates because they have an advantage. I wish this was a topic more highly talked about because I think it is a junk rule but imca its happy padding their pockets so they aren't saying much. The crate is an aluminum headed motor (easier to transfer weight) a spoiler (more rear downforce, more forward bite) and while not a true roller cam motor, its for all intents and purposes a roller cam, so its smoother. All things that make a car faster, especially in the slick. You couple that with that fact guys are running nitro, I know this for sure, and getting almost 500 hp out of them when you couple the nitro and methanol and you can see pretty quickly why the truck motors are kicking the open motors ass. Its infuriating as a guy who built three nice open motors and if the rules stay the same, they're almost obsolete. Thanks for nothing, imca.

Any ways, tires may have changed a bit, but I haven't seen much chunking. Hopefully that answers your question.

racinjj

07-12-2013, 01:30 PM

I dont get the excuses from the guys with the open motors and why the crates beat them. To me they all say the same thing, it has an advantage because it has less power. Hmmm, maybe you dont need a 700hp torque monster to run on a hard 8" tire. I consistently run lap times with my sportmod with the 602 crate that put in the top 5 of the A-mods. We recently had two sportmod guys run with the A-mods, 100% sportmod legal, and finish in the top 5. To me it seems like too many guys have to much power for what the tires can handle but dont want to admit it. Its much easier to drive and setup a car that has the peak power level at or below the limit of the tire. I have run my sportmod and A-mod with and without a spoiler and really havent noticed a difference handling wise. I just dont see even with the spoiler and aluminum heads how those can be seen as an advantage when the engine makes 100-200hp less than most open motors.

I was talking with one of my customers and he was mentioning that the tires seem different this year. They seem to wear a little different, no chunking or blistering but not wearing the same as years past. I cant say I have noticed much difference though.

I am curious as to what others have seen too, I am surprised this isnt talked about more.

charcoal01

07-12-2013, 04:01 PM

Is that a serious question about nitro?

Leftterns

07-12-2013, 05:06 PM

Seems like the A Mods that run well and win and don't face the traction issues here all have the r2c spacer that kills 70-100 HP so what's the answer? Driver application of throttle, discipline, or mechanical regulation of power/less motor.
Crates don't compete well everywhere and regardless of conditions.

Modlitefan0

07-13-2013, 01:29 AM

Sorry about the delay guys. I headed to the shop after I posted this morning and didnt have access to a computer. I guess I will give you a little more background about the situation. We have been won points at a track the last few years and last year we won well over 50% of the features at the track. This year, the track is being prepped a lot different where it is dry enough that a open motor cant compete even with it being a 1/2 mile track. But, I learned a lot today. The main reason I asked and some of you did mention it earlier was about tires. Last week, here in IA, we had a sportmod who they thought was dopin tires and that ended bringing up that IMCA had Hoosier making the tires different this year. SUPPOSEDLY, they are mixing plastic in with the rubber so that the high rpm open motors are burning the tires off early in the feature and the crates dont have any problem. Case and point tonight. We started on the pole and ran top 2/3 for about 5-8 laps and finally the crates took over and blew everyones doors off. 8 cars started the feature and 1-4 were crates and 5-8 were open cars. Anywho, the guys bringing up the point about killing horsepower think the problem is the horsepower but it is not. There have been 2 open motors built as close to the crate motor as you can get. 500 hp and the same weight as the crate yet they have not been able to even touch them. A gentleman that races modifieds was at the track helping a LM guy and they were pitted next to us. He was telling us that earlier this year he put in a crate and his feedback was "you will put in a crate and think it is the dumbest thing ever... until feature time when you are blowing peoples doors off. You will put it to the floor and just drive. In the heat race you will be lucky to make the invert but by feature time the open cars dont stand a chance." I never thought I would hear my driver say we need a crate until tonight. Next week we have 4 shows in a row that pay $1000 or more to win and there is no point for us to even show up. We dont want to sell out our engine builder(has won SuperNationals 2 or 3 times) because he just told us the other day that the crates are going to put him out of business, but what choice do we have. There really is no other choices around here for sanctions besides IMCA. A couple of NASCAR tracks but they are 2+ hours away. I am hoping that IMCA makes some changes to maybe 5" for a crate and 3" for open and maybe give the opens aluminum heads, but it is not in there best interests when they have all of their eggs in one basket with this crate.

LITE-INN

07-13-2013, 07:35 AM

tel the to bring that crate to UMP and plan to get its A@@ kicked

rustymod

07-13-2013, 08:08 AM

i see your plight and thanks for sharing.. I have to say in UMP country its the other way around. The norm is the 18 deg motor if you are serious about running up front. you have to have that power in the heat to get a decent spot in the feature. Steel heads are a waste of time and money in UMP as well. Mullins engine or better is the order of the day and YES you can hook it up with the UMP tire.
I hate to hear that IMCA is catering to the crates and i really surprised about this on the 1/2 mile deal. please keep us updated as to what you are trying to remedy this, I for one do not want to see an all crate IMCA class. that would stink.

LITE-INN

07-13-2013, 08:16 AM

crates should be used in sportsman or less

Modlitefan0

07-13-2013, 10:03 AM

The 4th race is at DSM Friday night. 1000 to win for modifieds.

stockcar5

07-13-2013, 01:16 PM

Duckhnter83

07-13-2013, 03:49 PM

Open motor mods are saying the same thing at my local track to. There is something different they don't last and they complain at the way they are grinding now compared to years past. They are also having problems with them chunking when they had never had the problem before. They all talk about American racer tires and how they want them back

rustymod

07-13-2013, 04:40 PM

The imca hoosier definitely changed but i dont believe imca had anything to do with it. Hoosier has worse problems with heir wissota tire. They are actually changing the tire midseason to a new design and some guys have been able to get new tires by trading in their old design tires.

Would not stun me if this was Hoosier deal, they have been putting plastic in the a40 for years which glazes over. Imca may not be the culprit...unlike ump you can simply call Tom at imca and get a straight response.

With ump with get a bunch of bs. Call Sam find out that in a 3 state region you maybe able to run the d40' and then 100 miles away its a40 only...it's all hosed up

mod557

07-13-2013, 06:18 PM

Modlite, interesting post. Quick question, how is anybody able to build an IMCA open engine anywhere near the same weight as the 604? We have been building them IMCA mod engines for years and cant do it. We have actually weighed the 604, 378 pounds as delivered. We can get closest with a stock cast iron GM Vortec head at 442 pounds. We see the biggest difference in the aftermarket heads where we are seeing 470 plus pounds. We believe you could remove the spoiler all together from the crate car and it would still be faster in the slick due to 100 pounds less nose weight, thoughts?

charcoal01

07-14-2013, 12:41 AM

Imca had as lot of aftermarket parts sponsors who aren't a big fan of crates as its bad for their business. I almost guarantee there is a pretty significant change for 2014. Imca is currently cutting off thEir nose to spite their face.

Modlitefan0

07-14-2013, 02:30 AM

Mod557, two different engine builders have put together engines to match the crate weight wise with a little more power. I do not know the story on the first engine builder but I know the second builder has had no luck even coming close. So far from the feedback we have been hearing a couple of different things are happening. 1) tracks are being prep different this year all across the country and it is leading to tracks being a lot drier than normal. 2) tires are not holding up for open motors. Like I said guys, a lot of this stuff was kind of pushed on me the last few days and I am just trying to piece it all together with some feedback from as many people as possible. I love that IMCA is trying to keep everything cheaper because costs are getting out of hand, but they are stacking the books against a lot of people just to make this crate work. We have been trying 2 barrels/restrictors/unhooking secondaries with no good luck but I think we will be hotlapping next week with a 3" blade on our open motor to see if that is where they are really getting us. We are only getting dominated by the crate at 1/2 mile tracks and we are thinking the spoiler is the key. When it comes to blowing the tires off, we have figured that portion out.

mod557

07-14-2013, 07:14 AM

Thank you for the info, we'll have to just keep trying to figure out how to trim weight from the nose. Let us know how much of a difference you notice testing the spoiler. Thanks again

frank 75

07-14-2013, 10:13 PM

It cracks me up people are complaining about getting beat by a motor that makes 400 hp.They are the same ones getting their a$$ kicked anyway. Work on you chassis set-up and driver throttle control! I agree the tire is a POS but is the same for everyone.

Modlitefan0

07-14-2013, 10:53 PM

Frank you make a few valid points, but I dont think that your idea on the people that are complaining are the ones that were bad before hand. There are plenty of great drivers who have done some good things in the past that are complaining because the odds are stacked against them before they get to the track all for IMCA to make a dollar. The tracks being prepped different around the country this year is not just a fluke. For example, my driver has been in a modified for about 10 years and last night was the first time at a particular track that the modifieds had to run last. Why might you ask? Some of the things said earlier make a pretty good argument as to why they would do that.

Modlitefan0

07-15-2013, 12:39 AM

I may be crazy but in one weekend we talked with guys running Harris, Victory, Shaw, and Dirtboss cars and they are all seeing the same things. I only travel to a few tracks on a consistent basis but I dont have to go everywhere to hear feedback from other people in other areas and other tracks. SCD, have you looked at the results from Stuart. Going back to last weekend I see the top three in crates the rest of the drivers have as many wins in the last five years as I have fingers so telling me that the track surface there makes a difference is a mute point. I will believe you on the Osky scenario although I have never seen that track heavy but I have only been there 4 or 5 times.

Modlitefan0

07-15-2013, 01:14 AM

I know for us, we dont want to sell out Stoa. After Friday at DSM, we were really contemplating it but after thinking about it some more but we are going to continue to try and see what we can do with this open motor to prove IMCA wrong.

MM90

07-15-2013, 09:25 AM

After competing with the crate engines, to me the HP/TQ the crate makes is a non issue. It's the 100# off the nose and the 3" spoiler where they get their advantage. I would like to see IMCA make them add 50# in front of the midplate. If IMCA doesn't change anything next year I will run NASCAR and bolt a 500cfm holley on my mod when the track slicks off with a 5" spoiler. Of course I will always be at a disadvantage with my heavy Ford engines balance wise when I have to add 50# of lead on the rear of the car to get 56% rear and tip the scales at 2600# after a race. The tires I don't know if there is an issue or not, I did have a RR chunk out on me and was kinda confused why because the track wasn't overly dry or tacky.

LITE-INN

07-15-2013, 09:30 AM

racewise.net can help next year

LITE-INN

07-15-2013, 09:33 AM

- TAKE THE TEST -

Test Your Knowledge...

1. Softening the right front spring helps the racecar to turn when on the gas because the softer
spring causes extra chassis roll that increases the load and traction of the right front tire.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

2. A tall coil spring helps to keep the chassis from lifting off the spring during weight transfer
because a tall spring stores more energy than a short spring.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

3. The most important factor in the geometry of a front suspension is the location of the
suspension’s roll center.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

4. It makes no difference to handling as to how a non-coil over front spring is installed into a lower
control arm as long as the spring is centered in its seat.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

5. Loose handling off the corner is usually due to improper chassis setup when the throttle is
applied.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

6. Don’t ever increase stagger or right rear tire trail when racing on a slick track.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

7. A stiffer shock helps to load and unload a tire quicker than a softer shock.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

8. Place ballast wherever convenient as long as the desired weight percentages are attained.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

9. The location of a shock or spring is not nearly as important as its rate.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

10. All suspension components should be mounted using stiff or solid type bushings.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

11. The RF tire gains negative camber when the chassis rolls.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

12. Most dirt track front suspensions need from 3 to 4 degrees negative camber in the right front tire and 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 degrees positive camber in the left front tire.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

C10

07-15-2013, 08:27 PM

I will say a couple of you guys are 100% correct about one thing, The tires have changed. There is more recycled plastic in them. This is why the tire testing lab we use had a delay on testing some tires for us because they had to wait for the new tire formulas. This is NOT any doing from IMCA though so thats a misconception

let-r-eat

07-15-2013, 11:31 PM

Don't underestimate that nose weight difference. Big advantage. What about 8.2 deck ford stuff? Anyone trying to run one?

MM90

07-16-2013, 08:59 AM

Don't underestimate that nose weight difference. Big advantage. What about 8.2 deck ford stuff? Anyone trying to run one?

347 would be ideal except for the 7800 chip rule, those engines need to turn 8000 plus. And the other downfall would be to make a stock 302 block strong enough to be durable since they are only good to 500HP before they split in half. Aftermarket blocks are heavy even in the 302 version.

powerslide

07-16-2013, 10:33 AM

Please Litey this is your chance to show us how smartt of a college boyz you are. Lets see how many you get correct.

- TAKE THE TEST -

Test Your Knowledge...

1. Softening the right front spring helps the racecar to turn when on the gas because the softer
spring causes extra chassis roll that increases the load and traction of the right front tire.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

2. A tall coil spring helps to keep the chassis from lifting off the spring during weight transfer
because a tall spring stores more energy than a short spring.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

3. The most important factor in the geometry of a front suspension is the location of the
suspension’s roll center.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

4. It makes no difference to handling as to how a non-coil over front spring is installed into a lower
control arm as long as the spring is centered in its seat.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

5. Loose handling off the corner is usually due to improper chassis setup when the throttle is
applied.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

6. Don’t ever increase stagger or right rear tire trail when racing on a slick track.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

7. A stiffer shock helps to load and unload a tire quicker than a softer shock.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

8. Place ballast wherever convenient as long as the desired weight percentages are attained.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

9. The location of a shock or spring is not nearly as important as its rate.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

10. All suspension components should be mounted using stiff or solid type bushings.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

11. The RF tire gains negative camber when the chassis rolls.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

12. Most dirt track front suspensions need from 3 to 4 degrees negative camber in the right front tire and 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 degrees positive camber in the left front tire.

a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

Imca27mod

07-16-2013, 03:09 PM

Im going to just call it how i see it. Every one has crated this animal. To much money in the motors just clam that is why its there

C10

07-16-2013, 06:57 PM

IMCA27mod, couldnt agree more, BUT IMCA has changed the claim rule. In the claim procedures it now states that a claiming driver must have attended ALL events to claim. So if you miss a night then you are not eligible to claim.

LITE-INN

07-16-2013, 10:13 PM

Please Litey this is your chance to show us how smartt of a college boyz you are. Lets see how many you get correct.

ah see that's where your wrong I know the answers its up to you to find out student

powerslide

07-16-2013, 11:18 PM

ah see that's where your wrong I know the answers its up to you to find out student

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxv2C5fplX8

Go back to the late model gossip section

big.ed

07-16-2013, 11:23 PM

Its on the interenet lol come on use some brain cells

powerslide

07-16-2013, 11:29 PM

Its on the interenet lol come on use some brain cells

litey's alter ego is back...

big.ed

07-16-2013, 11:41 PM

still can't get the answers it all bush league come on you can do it it might turn your program around

shockmod3x

07-17-2013, 04:52 AM

still can't get the answers it all bush league come on you can do it it might turn your program around

.Hey Fred how are these changes and knowledge working on your mod ? We are all assuming your car is up front weekly right ?
With all the BS you type on this board your car must be at least top three every week

brownIdriller

07-18-2013, 08:21 AM

What? No comment jacka$$? LITE-INN "I don't own a racecar. I never have. I have never raced anything but I know more about racing and about UMP than ANYONE else on this board, and if you don't like it that's just too bad." Unreal!

brownIdriller

07-18-2013, 08:24 AM

still can't get the answers it all bush league come on you can do it it might turn your program around

At least most of the guys here HAVE a racing program. The only program you have is to run your mouth and stir the sh!t.

LITE-INN

07-18-2013, 10:24 AM

At least most of the guys here HAVE a racing program. The only program you have is to run your mouth and stir the sh!t.

come on RACERS LMAO answers how can a fan know all the answers but you big bad racers don't know it its general knowledge

LITE-INN

07-18-2013, 11:03 AM

shockmod3x

07-18-2013, 11:56 AM

I give you clues and you can't find it what kinda racer are you

so exactly how many races have you won from the stands ?

dirtrace09

07-18-2013, 12:19 PM

The answer to every question that you listed is B) False. Now you can move on to another thread.

blackford

07-18-2013, 02:02 PM

.Hey Fred how are these changes and knowledge working on your mod ? We are all assuming your car is up front weekly right ?
With all the BS you type on this board your car must be at least top three every week

Here's Freddy Boy's car.... LOL

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=chey+volt&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=WuF6LMi2rOdFnM&tbnid=o5rWljnC-6W2aM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFi le%3AChevy_Volt_%2526_Nissan_Leaf.jpg&ei=cjvoUcCUJaLCyQHrwIDoDw&bvm=bv.49478099,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNGg8wOawA5tm4iiOkQo3zUO2SMLew&ust=1374260448670847

big.ed

07-18-2013, 04:05 PM

Give dirt racer 09. Beer for all you dumb a@@s. The answers were right above and those answers might your progrgram going

blueracer11

07-18-2013, 10:31 PM

so exactly how many races have you won from the stands ?

He's NEVER lost a race from the stands. He's just another non-racing jerk that sits in the stands and tells himself, "if I was out there, I would kick ALL their butts."

modified9

07-19-2013, 02:17 PM

Hey guys, I currently help an IMCA mod and have for the past 3 years. As you know, IMCA allowed the crate to come in this year and it is out there stomping every one. My question:Are you running an open motor and had troubles hooking up compared to years of the past? And are you all of a sudden having issues with chunking out tires or having them glaze over really easy?

As a spectator if you dont have a crate stay home unless u enjoy running mid pack time for IMCA 2 wakeup

LITE-INN

07-19-2013, 03:57 PM

He's NEVER lost a race from the stands. He's just another non-racing jerk that sits in the stands and tells himself, "if I was out there, I would kick ALL their butts."

You the dumb ass that schiol can change your program but you all ready knew that

shockmod3x

07-20-2013, 08:35 AM

You the dumb ass that schiol can change your program but you all ready knew that

huh wth. you dont race so you have no idea what you are talking about, but from the stands you win them all. lol

LITE-INN

07-20-2013, 08:40 AM

really jack I 've seen it with my own eyes you dumb a@@ matt mevert run for Mark Bush or connected in some way Mark is the cofounder of AFco he also runs a school every spring look up racewise.net

LITE-INN

07-20-2013, 09:38 AM

Please Litey this is your chance to show us how smartt of a college boyz you are. Lets see how many you get correct.

I got them all correct I did like owens and bloomer would do I cheated I looked

LITE-INN

07-20-2013, 09:38 AM

http://dirtcast.com/qQEMd/sound-off-mark-bush-racewise-dirt-track-chassis-school-101112/

shockmod3x

07-20-2013, 11:36 AM

http://dirtcast.com/qQEMd/sound-off-mark-bush-racewise-dirt-track-chassis-school-101112/

right right we all know on 4m you are the best racer in the stands without a car, you have yet to lose a single race from the pits or stands.

LITE-INN

07-20-2013, 12:31 PM

I 'm just the messenger if you don't use the program you will get beat by the program plain and simple and I guess the the co founder of AFCO products has no knowledge

LITE-INN

07-20-2013, 01:41 PM

right right we all know on 4m you are the best racer in the stands without a car, you have yet to lose a single race from the pits or stands.

and you have more wins than scott bloomquist bill moyer and bob pierce combined ah what heck even more than (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) trickle

LITE-INN

07-21-2013, 01:56 PM

Mark Bush racing won again and so did Randy Korte both students of that school

LITE-INN

07-21-2013, 03:39 PM

http://www.onedirt.com/features/jeff-taylor-%e2%80%9ceverything-went-right-and-not-wrong%e2%80%9d/

jonnywhoop52

07-21-2013, 04:01 PM

thought this post was about CRATE vs. OPEN? No need to go past the second page..

big.ed

07-21-2013, 04:46 PM

its all apart of the game you get the car to handle better somethings are taken cared for

rustymod

07-21-2013, 07:49 PM

thought this post was about CRATE vs. OPEN? No need to go past the second page..

agreed anymore word on the topic of this post from this weeks racing ?

Modlitefan0

07-22-2013, 01:35 PM

Well the crates dominated at the Clash as we all expected. I texted the winner of the Clash the weekend before and told them if they were going to be competitive they were going to have to buy one and by god by Tuesday they had one in. The crates are dominating the 1/2 mile tracks with ease. We are still trying to beat them at our local 1/2 mile but we arent having any luck. Boone has tried their hardest to get a crate to win before SN rolls around and it still has not happened. They put down woodchips last week and did not water at all during the night which is very uncommon of them. I dont think there was a crate in the top 10 but there were only 2-3 there. Karl is paying $100 extra to the top finishing crate at Boone each week and people still are not dumb enough to buy in. Marshalltown has been figured out now to where a crate hasnt won in awhile. Same guy has won there the last two weeks with an open motor. I honestly think that part of it is figuring the car out to drive with more momentum to keep up with them but when it comes to the 1/2 tracks the open motors do not have a chance.

MM90

07-22-2013, 03:25 PM

Stuart is the only small track that I have seen a Crate win multiple times, but they only get less than 10 cars a week. Sobbing dominates my local track SCS, Denison is back and forth between Sobbing and Abelson. I-80 on Friday night NASCAR is dominated by crates unless Berck is driving a modified. Suppose on 1/2 mile tracks the little 3" spoiler makes more of a difference than at 1/4 mile tracks?

Modlitefan0

07-23-2013, 11:29 AM

And how did the open motors fair once the feature rolled around? I have heard two different stats with crates being 12 of top 13 and someone else said 8 of top 10. Elliot was the only open I noticed in the top 13 too but maybe I missed someone further back. SCD, when are you getting your mod out?

powerslide

07-24-2013, 01:54 PM

I dont think you guys are giving enough credit to the weight its taking off the nose. With the aftermarket block rule opening up whenever that was, the typical dart head/dart block open cars are carrying around 75-125 pounds more up front vs the crate.(This is a guess i dont race IMCA). Someone else mentioned about the best you can do for weight is vortec heads and then a stock block and you are still probably 50pds heavier up front.

LITE-INN

07-24-2013, 03:51 PM

I don't understand how you can complain about the crates being faster in the feature on a slick track... THAT is a slower track time wise so it is already known that the open motors were 4-6 tenths per lap faster in the heats, when the track was fast.IF the open motor guys de tuned their motors so they could hook them up they too would be faster on the slick. I believe if you look at times where there are some GOOD sportmods racing they are almost always faster come feature time than the A mods on slick tracks.Planning to race my mod at Bvr tomorrow.duh take plug wire off

LITE-INN

07-24-2013, 03:52 PM

He's NEVER lost a race from the stands. He's just another non-racing jerk that sits in the stands and tells himself, "if I was out there, I would kick ALL their butts."and you never won a race and your point is

oldtrackchamp4x

07-24-2013, 08:50 PM

As the old saying goes " the heat race is for show the feature is for the dough". JMO

rustymod

07-25-2013, 01:28 AM

As the old saying goes " the heat race is for show the feature is for the dough". JMO

I am guessing the open motor guys have already tried using a stock block instead of the aftermarket deal to help get the weight down.....

But this is a good point as the aftermarket stuff does add more weight.

to go with a light crank also drives the price up too but this has been tried too i would suspect....

shockmod3x

07-25-2013, 01:57 AM

I got them all correct I did like owens and bloomer would do I cheated I looked
why dont you come on to 4m and tell us how to perform brain surgery as well lmao. you have never done that either, so your just as much as an expert in that field too. No one on 4m wants your troll BS on how to setup a car, from a non racing, never driven internet troll.
Name one car you worked on ever that placed well. that YOU Fred setup. Not some BS link, not another set of questions, but something here in the real life where the rest of us operate.
Until then please quit hijacking posts where the rest of us are trying learn from "people that actually own cars and go to the track and operate them ".

big.ed

07-25-2013, 07:44 AM

You race every day lmao you should know the answers ain't that right know it all

blueracer11

07-25-2013, 08:28 AM

You race every day lmao you should know the answers ain't that right know it all

big.ed/LITE-INN, it would seem from where I read that YOU are the know-it-all jacka$$. Everyone else is asking questions, and discussing racing issues with racers who race, rather than trying to give advice on something they know NOTHING about. Why can't you see that real racers don't like you hijacking their posts when they want real info from another real racer? Get a clue! Your input is NOT appreciated nor wanted. If the topic is one about opinions from the stands, then by all means, voice away. If the questions are tech-related, please stay out of it.

LITE-INN

07-25-2013, 08:37 AM

I gave tech questions and you couldn't answer them and you call yourself a racer lmao

Sportmod Rookie

07-25-2013, 09:00 AM

I have to agree with blueracer11 here. I dont know you, maybe you do know something but right now you are just coming off as an A-hole. Maybe you should just stick to the gossip boards and answering/asking questions like....

1. Track with coldest beer?

2. Track with best nachos?

3. Track with best Cheeseburger?

LITE-INN

07-25-2013, 09:04 AM

maybe you should look at the tech questions if you don't you get beat by one that knows the answers and that's money in the bank do the research

powerslide

07-25-2013, 10:45 AM

So I shouldn't have put the 65 lb weight my car needs to make weight over the top of the transmission up at deck height?

You can by all means put it wherever you like... If it's not in front of the motor plate then it is an advantage.

MM90

07-26-2013, 07:37 AM

Having 336 hp to the rear wheels is a advantage, lol..

I raced my crate mod last night, that crate motor is a pooch, my stock car with a 2 barrel dynoes the same and runs harder for sure.

Jeff nobody else is talking about HP, I can build a claim engine with the same HP and TQ as the crate but that won't do me any good because I won't get a spoiler or the 100# off the nose of the car.

stockcar5

07-26-2013, 08:09 AM

Having 336 hp to the rear wheels is a advantage, lol..

I raced my crate mod last night, that crate motor is a pooch, my stock car with a 2 barrel dynoes the same and runs harder for sure.

I'm surprised the driveline in a mod costs 100hp. Guys up here are getting 440hp out of the crate on methanol. Did you even have to lift?!?!

big.ed

07-26-2013, 08:31 AM

big.ed/LITE-INN, it would seem from where I read that YOU are the know-it-all jacka$$. Everyone else is asking questions, and discussing racing issues with racers who race, rather than trying to give advice on something they know NOTHING about. Why can't you see that real racers don't like you hijacking their posts when they want real info from another real racer? Get a clue! Your input is NOT appreciated nor wanted. If the topic is one about opinions from the stands, then by all means, voice away. If the questions are tech-related, please stay out of it.

yeah hi jacking with real questions that you mr racer lmao don't know the anwers and probably getting beat by some one that knows the answers

MM90

07-26-2013, 08:52 AM

Who ran the spoiler? I am assuming it was a 3" as well.

MM90

07-26-2013, 11:49 AM

I'm surprised the driveline in a mod costs 100hp. Guys up here are getting 440hp out of the crate on methanol. Did you even have to lift?!?!

Guys at Karl's said from the engine to chassis dyno the engine is down 15%. Crate engine dynoed "at crank" on methanol is around 450HP is what I was told.

$LITE-INN$

07-26-2013, 09:46 PM

You must not running UMP. UMP mods almost 680hp. You running IMCA or bmod. Follow program or get beat by it. Fact of life.

$LITE-INN$

07-26-2013, 09:57 PM

I been friends with racer long time. UMP cars that run fast because they follow the program if not get beat by program up to you. do research lmao nonracers.

TAKE THE TEST -Test Your Knowledge...

1. Softening the right front spring helps the racecar to turn when on the gas because the softerspring causes extra chassis roll that increases the load and traction of the right front tire.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

2. A tall coil spring helps to keep the chassis from lifting off the spring during weight transferbecause a tall spring stores more energy than a short spring.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

3. The most important factor in the geometry of a front suspension is the location of thesuspension’s roll center.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

4. It makes no difference to handling as to how a non-coil over front spring is installed into a lowercontrol arm as long as the spring is centered in its seat.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

5. Loose handling off the corner is usually due to improper chassis setup when the throttle isapplied.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

6. Don’t ever increase stagger or right rear tire trail when racing on a slick track.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

7. A stiffer shock helps to load and unload a tire quicker than a softer shock.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

8. Place ballast wherever convenient as long as the desired weight percentages are attained.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

9. The location of a shock or spring is not nearly as important as its rate.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

10. All suspension components should be mounted using stiff or solid type bushings.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

11. The RF tire gains negative camber when the chassis rolls.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

12. Most dirt track front suspensions need from 3 to 4 degrees negative camber in the right front tire and 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 degrees positive camber in the left front tire.a.) True b.) False c.) Not Sure

LITE-INN

07-26-2013, 10:25 PM

but can you answer the copy and paste lmao

Modlitefan0

07-28-2013, 02:56 AM

SCD, you make a good point with detuning them. That is exactly what we do on a weekly basis and it changes nothing. Elliot was running his 360 with the timing backed off and he finished what like 8th or something like that. Guys are trying anything from running really tall gears, running 2 barrels, restrictors, unhooking secondaries and none of this allows them to be able to drive a car into the corner 2-3 car lengths deeper like the crates are. On a side note, there was a sport mod guy down at Boone tonight trying a modified because he is making the switch in the next week or two and he thought the crate performed better at Boone when it was heavy than it did once it slicked off. Boone actually farmed this week so there was still a little something to get ahold of in the feature, but of course the woodchips they put in it a couple of weeks ago have made it hard for anyone to hook up like normal. I am sure they will put some more down before SN comes around. Plywood racing anyone?

LITE-INN

07-28-2013, 07:46 AM

what a shame down in UMP land last for a weekly show we had 40 cars and not a crate in sight but I believe a spec motor with no weight break or spoiler difference

1Blacksheep

07-28-2013, 10:36 AM

I would like to think an affordable crate would run at the front in UMP land . But I don't ever see it happening as there will always be a Cat show up that knows what he is doing with the Chassis, loud pedal,and deep pockets that will hand a Crate an azz whoopin in any track condition with a Big Horse . Good Luck and post results when it happens IF it happens. Not saying its impossible but not likely until a Crate will turn 10 Gs on the Tach in the tack . JMO

LITE-INN

07-28-2013, 10:40 AM

A spec motor won last i do believe at least thats what he had last year and we had 40 mods for a weekly show and knowledge with chassis bingo look at test i gave

Modlitefan0

07-28-2013, 01:21 PM

Noteboom said one of the reasons he didnt go to the Clash was because of the crate.

shockmod3x

07-28-2013, 06:36 PM

A spec motor won last i do believe at least thats what he had last year and we had 40 mods for a weekly show and knowledge with chassis bingo look at test i gave

maybe you did have 40 cars for one week bla bla..but dont try fill us with all you BS about how super things are in UMP country because they are now. while IMCA may have crate issues...UMP is killling the class in a differnt with ZERO engine rules, and the order of the day to run up front is a at least a 20k Mullins, which most of your top cars have if not they have the something better...without one of those 15, 18 degree beast on a tacky track you are just wasting your time.

Mod77L

07-28-2013, 10:57 PM

Found this on facebook. Same weight, more HP & TQ for $1000 more than the crate, but claimable and no blade.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1071596_10153048674320471_1012078771_o.jpg

Can't find them on karlperformance.com though.

LITE-INN

07-28-2013, 11:14 PM

maybe you did have 40 cars for one week bla bla..but dont try fill us with all you BS about how super things are in UMP country because they are now. while IMCA may have crate issues...UMP is killling the class in a differnt with ZERO engine rules, and the order of the day to run up front is a at least a 20k Mullins, which most of your top cars have if not they have the something better...without one of those 15, 18 degree beast on a tacky track you are just wasting your time.really highland around 30 fairbury had 38 and the guy the guy that won friday night and sat had or has had a spec engine and winning it ain't the motor

LITE-INN

07-28-2013, 11:17 PM

400 Mullins with Dart little M block, 23 degree mullins heads, cp pistons, rods and crank. Comes with msd distributor, and jones pulleys. Motor has zero laps since freshened asking $10,000 OBO. If you have any question you can call or txt 618-520-2870.

shockmod3x

07-29-2013, 09:58 AM

roundboy

07-29-2013, 12:59 PM

From here in UMP land as you call it, the SPEC motor is still making 650, or more, horse power... UMP is a whole other animal than IMCA... And the UMP tires with a good set-up car will put all the power down you can give them.. so as far as a IMCA crate motor being competitive in "UMP Land", i cant see that possible...

roundboy

07-29-2013, 02:53 PM

shockmod3x

07-29-2013, 04:22 PM

My point exactly stock car driver, i guess what i was meaning was there is a big differance between the crate motor IMCA allows and the SPEC motor that Lite-inn was talking about... the SPEC motor is the same one USMTS uses, so it still is a big horse power motor...

indeed spec motor has some big power as well. The point I was trying to make was only the IMCA crate deal is becoming an issue that needs to be looked at, UMP has entirely different issues that are BIG money issue.

When you look at the costs of running UMP, the crate motor and running with IMCA is a bargain.

I am no crate fan at all, and would rather do the open deal IMCA as well.

LITE-INN

07-29-2013, 05:17 PM

you just Iove Imca. if you. thing you put crate motor dor under 10 k I got bridge I willl sell you

LITE-INN

07-29-2013, 08:16 PM

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?304954-Race-ready-modified!!-Must-go!!! here you go lmao

shockmod3x

07-29-2013, 09:27 PM

you just Iove Imca. if you. thing you put crate motor dor under 10 k I got bridge I willl sell you

Of course a crate can be had less than 10k....not sure what you are smoking lite inn.

Makes no difference to you anyway, because you don't have a car and don't race and don't spend a nickel on a car.

I

LITE-INN

07-29-2013, 10:02 PM

Of course a crate can be had less than 10k....not sure what you are smoking lite inn.Makes no difference to you anyway, because you don't have a car and don't race and don't spend a nickel on a car.Iwith all the accessories under ten k and tweaked at a motor builders shop for under 10k and if was go great wouldn't you see more drivers using them the 602 and 604 are legal

shockmod3x

07-29-2013, 10:36 PM

with all the accessories under ten k and tweaked at a motor builders shop for under 10k and if was go great wouldn't you see more drivers using them the 602 and 604 are legal

Wow all the answers...what motor do you run in your mod ?

LITE-INN

07-29-2013, 10:46 PM

well you can be to smart I look at on the www found the 10 k but you can't and you call yourself a racer

shockmod3x

07-30-2013, 09:17 AM

well you can be to smart I look at on the www found the 10 k but you can't and you call yourself a racer

lol funny stuff coming from someone that does not have a mod, trailer, engine or any of the above, just go away troll, so actual car owners can discus actual issues, not the BS you dream up from what you read online.

If 10k is such a great deal then buy it and tell us all when what track you are gonna be at so we can all see how its done, until then please just go away no one needs your BS and guessing.

LITE--OUT

07-30-2013, 10:03 AM

lol LITE-INN is a genius! you serious got a bridge to sell? I need one. Plus i got a crate u can have for under 10k. dont know where you can up with that number lmao u claim to know whats going on??! lol if it aint on 4m u dont know sh!t hahahaha

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 10:15 AM

shockmod x no guess ing some of us actually goto the race track and not to drink beer

shockmod3x

07-30-2013, 11:13 AM

shockmod x no guess ing some of us actually goto the race track and not to drink beer

really....no I think you only go to eat hot dogs and drink beer, cause all on 4m know you dont race and dont have a car so no way you are racing at the track.

roundboy

07-30-2013, 02:13 PM

Only thing LITE-IN, and whatever other user names he hides behide, is racing is his fingers on the key board!!! Its clear that this person has NO understanding about race cars and just likes to get people stirred up...

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 03:03 PM

really....no I think you only go to eat hot dogs and drink beer, cause all on 4m know you dont race and dont have a car so no way you are racing at the track.hear you go smartass People néed to quit calling this crate motor a $7500 motor, because its not. It may be roughly $7500 from GM but by the time you buy the water pump and drive kit to be able to run a fan and all the other parts that don't transfer over from a standard Chevy motor it's closer to 11k. And the oiling system isn't meant to handle sustained high rpm that's the single biggest flaw in this package it might work great on asphalt with a low rpm chip but not so much on dirt At 8??? Rpms. This motor in a 650 hp configuration with a dry sump and a real rebuilder program behind it would be awesome from bigg 88 fan

MM90

07-30-2013, 03:29 PM

hear you go smartass People néed to quit calling this crate motor a $7500 motor, because its not. It may be roughly $7500 from GM but by the time you buy the water pump and drive kit to be able to run a fan and all the other parts that don't transfer over from a standard Chevy motor it's closer to 11k. And the oiling system isn't meant to handle sustained high rpm that's the single biggest flaw in this package it might work great on asphalt with a low rpm chip but not so much on dirt At 8??? Rpms. This motor in a 650 hp configuration with a dry sump and a real rebuilder program behind it would be awesome from bigg 88 fan

IMCA 604's run a 6400 RPM chip. Not sure why any other sanction that would allow them to run any more RPM than that.

Mod77L

07-30-2013, 03:37 PM

The IMCA 604 is $5450 and is chipped at 6400 RPM. They use a standard water pump and most the same accessories as a pre-86 SBC. At worst, you need a new coupler for your direct drive tranny because of the 1-pc crank.

It sure sounds like you are talking about the CT525, which is not an IMCA-legal modified crate motor.

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 03:51 PM

5450 plus all the accessories are what carbs running 11 00 buck headers 300 bucks dizzy wires good oil pan fuel pump you start adding that up and what you have right around 10 k yeah your right it ways talking about ct 525

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 03:56 PM

I can see why Usra nd ump etc came about https://imca.com/brett-roots-column-for-july/

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 03:57 PM

lol funny stuff coming from someone that does not have a mod, trailer, engine or any of the above, just go away troll, so actual car owners can discus actual issues, not the BS you dream up from what you read online.If 10k is such a great deal then buy it and tell us all when what track you are gonna be at so we can all see how its done, until then please just go away no one needs your BS and guessing.now go in the the back yard and play with your RACE CARS LMAO

Mod77L

07-30-2013, 04:06 PM

You don't need a new distributor or wires for these engines. Springs and weights can be easily changed. Replacing the oil pan is illegal. Fuel pump is the same as any othe SBC. The carb and headers might be a valid point, but if I bought a bigger motor than what I have now, I'd probably have to get a different carb and different headers, so this is not a valid argument either. If you don't like the idea of crates, that is fine, you've made your point. Just don't expect people to believe that they need $4500 of accessories to change over to one.

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 04:20 PM

Great have the crates take over and allthese motors builders are out of business and also many fans i 'm one them would'nt go across the street to asee a fleet of crates running

dirty white boy

07-30-2013, 10:06 PM

love a crate or hate a crate if its what ya wanta do,..but for 5000 bucks(round here) an run it for 2 to 3 full seasons without braking a seal on it is the way to go,..most track round here got 20 to 25 crate models every weekend! an dont worry bout them engine builders,..most are to busy inspecting protested crate motors an building crate motors thay really ant got time to mess with many custom motors to start with...one of our local builders has a hell of a crate carb program and i hear his dyno testing crates several times a day....most OWM on dirt round here running the $3000 buck 602s an people love them...me myself i miss the open motors...but we get several super shows a season an seems to please people just fine..round here!

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 10:08 PM

ti suxs to be you

dirty white boy

07-30-2013, 10:14 PM

nope,..i run sportsman,..build ever aspect of what i run with my own 2 hands,...an i enjoy every bit of it just wish i had nuff money to do it better....some folks just miserably with it,at it,around it,..even spread misery bout it over the internet.....

LITE-INN

07-30-2013, 10:39 PM

LITE--OUT

07-31-2013, 10:34 AM

I can see why Usra nd ump etc came about https://imca.com/brett-roots-column-for-july/you dont know a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) about either of those! all you know is your powderpuff ump guys

dirty white boy

07-31-2013, 12:41 PM

602 is a option,..but only one team has tried it with no success...

LITE-INN

07-31-2013, 01:46 PM

size of the track size of the track

$LITE-INN$

07-31-2013, 07:00 PM

I know lots of guys won many races with 602 aganst open motors on tack track. Size track what matters.

LITE-INN

07-31-2013, 08:36 PM

think macon or belle claire and ask your self do you really need more than the crates also hey schockmod3x just wondering since your a racing expertr do you see any drinking in the pits

LITE-INN

07-31-2013, 08:38 PM

you dont know a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) about either of those! all you know is your powderpuff ump guys I know a few drivers that might take an exception to that

LITE-INN

07-31-2013, 10:22 PM

अहो lite-out आपल्या स्वत आपण अडाणी संभोग जा

shockmod3x

08-01-2013, 04:57 AM

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 06:17 AM

No lite inn never claimed to be an expert. What I know for certain, ist that you are NOT. Since you never actually owned a car or raced, you have no clue. But yet it does not stop you from ruining 4m with you bs.You sit in the stands and click on your PC like you are doing something, when the reality is no one on 4m wants your opinion on how to operate....because you have Never done any of it. This was a good post where actual racers with real mods, were discussing crate engines etc. you had to jump in and ruin it with your bs. really bs like tech question that you can't answer so you can't be a real racer either .it doesn't matter what you have under the hood or who the driver is if the car does not handle your not going anywhere,and you have never proventhat have a race either only bashing me saying I don'tand answer the question do you see anybody drinking in the pits

Duckhnter83

08-01-2013, 06:55 AM

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 07:05 AM

Where are the moderators of this forum to help see this lite inn and his 3 other accounts off of 4m? I'm tired of seeing this troll offer up nothing but bs. I may be fairly new to mods and dirt racing but I can tell you this guy has offered no valid info. And who gives two shi*s about your 15 questions! I came to this forum to gain useful knowledge from fellow racers and learn. This guy sure is not giving any useful knowledge if he has never been in the driver seat or turned a wrench on one. really those questions are from the ceo of Afco racing you might be getting beat beat by those 12 questions just sayingand is there drinking in the pit s know it all

Sportmod Rookie

08-01-2013, 08:15 AM

Where are the moderators of this forum to help see this lite inn and his 3 other accounts off of 4m? I'm tired of seeing this troll offer up nothing but bs. I may be fairly new to mods and dirt racing but I can tell you this guy has offered no valid info. And who gives two shi*s about your 15 questions! I came to this forum to gain useful knowledge from fellow racers and learn. This guy sure is not giving any useful knowledge if he has never been in the driver seat or turned a wrench on one.

Yeah...I like how is come back is those questions every time. Also he took the time to private message me and all he said was "an Imca ass wipe wow " I really doubt Mark Bush or anyone at AFCO appreciates him posting anything related to their business.

powerslide

08-01-2013, 08:53 AM

Where are the moderators of this forum to help see this lite inn and his 3 other accounts off of 4m? I'm tired of seeing this troll offer up nothing but bs. I may be fairly new to mods and dirt racing but I can tell you this guy has offered no valid info. And who gives two shi*s about your 15 questions! I came to this forum to gain useful knowledge from fellow racers and learn. This guy sure is not giving any useful knowledge if he has never been in the driver seat or turned a wrench on one.

The mods don't care because he runs up the posts count and hit count on the website...

LITE--OUT

08-01-2013, 08:54 AM

I know a few drivers that might take an exception to thatlol sure as he!! aint u! u pry couldnt even start the car.but tell those guys to saddle up and try there luck against the usmts. would love to see gilpin go home with his tail between his legs

Duckhnter83

08-01-2013, 09:27 AM

I may get beat by guys who have been racing longer but I'm having fun doing it

Cooter Davenport

08-01-2013, 10:19 AM

I know lots of guys won many races with 602 aganst open motors on tack track. Size track what matters.

Name a few of them please...

shockmod3x

08-01-2013, 10:41 AM

really bs like tech question that you can't answer so you can't be a real racer either .it doesn't matter what you have under the hood or who the driver is if the car does not handle your not going anywhere,and you have never proventhat have a race either only bashing me saying I don'tand answer the question do you see anybody drinking in the pits

yeah its all bs from you. you dont race and never have. to me anyone that has a car, crews on a car (actively actually turning wrenches ) drives etc. IS a real racer.

Lite Inn..you dont do any of the above. All you do is go watch and then type on 4m with your bs. on top of that you ridicule people that have cars because of where they finish etc. you are a non racing hyprocrite and the moderator should ban you from the board because you cannot stop yourself. you constantly come on 4m running your mouth posting links about things that you have NEVER done. YOU only watch from the pits or stands and thats it. As I have said a few times, you may as well come on 4m and tell us all how to perform brain surgery cause you have never done that either.

Its a breeze to sit in the stands and post 15 questions on 4m, any j@ck@ss can do that. NOW actually taking what you read and making it work on the car, and then being able to drive the car are totally different things, and thats the part you DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

This is because Lite Inn you have never lost a race from the pits/stands. Get your @ss in a car and lets see how much of BS you can apply, until then go away so real racers can discuss real issues. go post about nachos and beer or whatever you do when you watch the races.

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 11:55 AM

lol sure as he!! aint u! u pry couldnt even start the car.but tell those guys to saddle up and try there luck against the usmts. would love to see gilpin go home with his tail between his legsgilpin has got by our. boys and your and harrison spanked your ustms boys so what is your every racer has thir day

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 11:57 AM

yeah its all bs from you. you dont race and never have. to me anyone that has a car, crews on a car (actively actually turning wrenches ) drives etc. IS a real racer. Lite Inn..you dont do any of the above. All you do is go watch and then type on 4m with your bs. on top of that you ridicule people that have cars because of where they finish etc. you are a non racing hyprocrite and the moderator should ban you from the board because you cannot stop yourself. you constantly come on 4m running your mouth posting links about things that you have NEVER done. YOU only watch from the pits or stands and thats it. As I have said a few times, you may as well come on 4m and tell us all how to perform brain surgery cause you have never done that either.Its a breeze to sit in the stands and post 15 questions on 4m, any j@ck@ss can do that. NOW actually taking what you read and making it work on the car, and then being able to drive the car are totally different things, and thats the part you DO NOT UNDERSTAND. This is because Lite Inn you have never lost a race from the pits/stands. Get your @ss in a car and lets see how much of BS you can apply, until then go away so real racers can discuss real issues. go post about nachos and beer or whatever you do when you watch the races.I did work onacrew back in the 70's

chapa9

08-01-2013, 02:31 PM

So your saying in the 70's you got your favorite driver some nachos?

LITE--OUT

08-01-2013, 03:44 PM

gilpin has got by our. boys and your and harrison spanked your ustms boys so what is your every racer has thir dayyour an illiterate moron. make some sense once would yai will guarantee that usmts regulars have won more ump races that ump regulars have won usmts races. and like i said before. stop over this weekend at i55.

big.ed

08-01-2013, 04:28 PM

hey bitch fix me pancakes

blackdoom16

08-01-2013, 08:32 PM

hey bitch fix me pancakes

Interpreted: FFAAARRRRRRttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 08:56 PM

your an illiterate moron. make some sense once would yai will guarantee that usmts regulars have won more ump races that ump regulars have won usmts races. and like i said before. stop over this weekend at i55. really I 've seen schyrock and sanders not even make the main in a UMP show but the same goes with Gilpin and if you know like you say you know I won't be at I55 this weekend

LITE-INN

08-01-2013, 08:59 PM

Interpreted: FFAAARRRRRRttttttttttttttttttttttttt!! that's more intelligent than lite - out, amazing

LITE--OUT

08-02-2013, 11:57 AM

really I 've seen schyrock and sanders not even make the main in a UMP show but the same goes with Gilpin and if you know like you say you know I won't be at I55 this weekendMan youve seen it all! I figured u would the way you have been talking lately.. I saw u the other weekend. about stopped to talk but u were foaming at the mouth and had toilet paper stuck to your shoe

big.ed

08-02-2013, 04:21 PM

and you are full of (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)

LITE--OUT

08-02-2013, 04:23 PM

hey lite inn how come u never have a convo with me. for once your not running you c()ck sucker

LITE--OUT

08-02-2013, 04:24 PM

i really did see u. wearing that same dam (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) u always do!

LITE-INN

08-02-2013, 09:02 PM

i really did see u. wearing that same dam (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) u always do!and you need to pull your pants up no one wants to see that

LITE-INN

08-02-2013, 09:04 PM

your an illiterate moron. make some sense once would yai will guarantee that usmts regulars have won more ump races that ump regulars have won usmts races. and like i said before. stop over this weekend at i55. your an illiterate moron. make some sense once would yai will guarantee that usmts regulars have won more ump races that ump regulars have won usmts races. and like i said before. stop over this weekend at i55. prove it except for fla. since on one worth anything travels down there any more

LITE-INN

08-02-2013, 11:10 PM

http://www.thehelltour.com/roktabs/138-unzicker-conquers-fairbury.html looks like your 2007 champion wandered off in to a bigger pond jeremy payne terry phillips both ran MARS WHICH IS ump www .lakeozarkspeedway.com/results-topmenu/40-2009-results/129-cornell-harrison-walker-a-dowell-take-wins-at-lake-ozark-speedway-and since there rules different now kinda a mute point

shockmod3x

08-03-2013, 12:36 AM

LITE-INN

08-03-2013, 08:54 AM

you don't like the truth do you

big.ed

08-03-2013, 11:22 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW3si9nG7j8&feature=youtu.be&nomobile=1&guid=&gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google good racing lmao

shockmod3x

08-03-2013, 03:33 PM

you don't like the truth do you

the truth....lmao

here is the truth you are nothing but a 4m troll that does not race and never has, and yet you come on 4m and proclaim yourself some sort of racing expert.

why dont you proclaim yourself an expert on rocket engineering, you have never done that either...

its unreal that you sit in the stands and stand in the pits and somehow you think you are a racing expert. AGain I say if you know so much then get your big @ss out here and show us ALL how its done until then please get off the board and shut up.

LITE-INN

08-04-2013, 01:41 AM

I showed you the results thats right you can't comprehend your wonderful ustms drivers are branching out and getting their asses kicked

shockmod3x

08-04-2013, 07:32 AM

I showed you the results thats right you can't comprehend your wonderful ustms drivers are branching out and getting their asses kicked

NO what you showed was someone else's results. NO SHOW YOUR results. Where are your results ???

ITs super east to post BS and then post someone else's results anyone with a computer can do that.

Again I say, you claim its so easy then show us all, you claim to know it all then get out here and show us.

You have never lost a race from the stands now try it on the track.

blackdoom16

08-04-2013, 12:27 PM

He doesn't have any results other than the positive STD test from the county health department. Wait and see, his answer to all of this will be the same as always, "Fffarrrrtttttttttttttttt(noise an a$$hold makes when it talks)." more BS, opinion of a non-racing moron, more BS, opinion of a non-racing moron, more BS......in other words "FFffarrrrttttttttttttt."

LITE-INN

08-04-2013, 12:29 PM

NO what you showed was someone else's results. NO SHOW YOUR results. Where are your results ???ITs super east to post BS and then post someone else's results anyone with a computer can do that.Again I say, you claim its so easy then show us all, you claim to know it all then get out here and show us.You have never lost a race from the stands now try it on the track. you just can't fix stupi\d

LITE-INN

08-04-2013, 12:31 PM

brownIdriller

08-04-2013, 12:32 PM

The best thing LITE-INN/big.ed/$LITE-INN$ can do for all of us is go flush himself so we don't have to smell his stink.

LITE-INN

08-04-2013, 12:33 PM

you just can't fix stupid

blackdoom16

08-04-2013, 12:34 PM

you just can't fix stupid

I must be psychic "you just can't fix stupid = FFFaaarrrrrrrrttttttttt!"

MM90

08-05-2013, 01:12 PM

I got tired of Lite Inn by page 3 and put him on the ignore list. Everybody should do the same and get back to the original subject..

charcoal01

08-05-2013, 01:52 PM

I'll attempt to get this back on topic. Raced at Central Arizona raceway last Saturday. 32 imca mods showed up. Of the top ten finishing cars, 8 were crate motors. The winner was a open motor, guy buy the name of rc Whitwell who recently moved back home after touring the country racing late models for the past couple years. After him the next 8 cars all had crates. Track is a big 3/8ths with steep banking. Crate motors obviously aren't invincible, but I think rc would have won with a crate as well. It takes a really good setup and a very soft foot to beat these crates.

Modlitefan0

08-05-2013, 02:44 PM

I havent been paying too much attention lately and things have died down a little bit since the Clash. We are down to one night a week as Iowa State Fairgrounds closed because of the fair starting up. IMCA thought about doing something to level the field because of the crate domination the week of the Clash but what they found is that it isnt really dominating across the country. It is just at select race tracks.

lov2race

08-05-2013, 07:58 PM

A guy here practiced with spoiler and without and was .10 faster without it.
A different guy ran heat and king of hill with spoiler on car with his open motor and it didn't help him at all.

Winners will always win.

At are home truck we can run 3 inch Spoiler Or a 5 inch spoiler with 2bbl IMCA rules Adams County Speedway ia you cant just bolt on a spoiler, you have to put less rear % ,more springs ,Higher bars angle, Its the most fun we had in years . we had 10 race 9 different winers frst time guy last week and close racing ,
We had 2 crate came and raced and did ok (top 10) but didt not dominate like they do at I 80 Ne
oh and are tire don't were and we burn 5 gal of gas a night

Fun

Modlitefan0

08-10-2013, 01:08 AM

modracr41

08-10-2013, 11:27 AM

Jeff, you are right about Havlick, he attempted to run with out a spoiler and did ok. But he was also at a stop and go racetrack where the spoiler didnt really matter. He also a half a spoiler with a tiny motor at DSM and couldnt pass Billy F'in Davis. What is your point. Bring your crate for the next 4 weeks to Boone at a stop and go track and see what happens. You seem like a hell of a nice guy, but lets be honest your crate is only good in certain circumstances and Boone is not the answer. Strickler said it best that a crate wont matter at SN until Saturday night at 30+ laps even than I will still take the open over the crate. If I am wrong so be it, but Boone has tried its (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)est to let a crate win this year and it still wont happen. Ya a crate has won every other special of the year but Boone is a different animal and you know it. This whole equal money bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) is just that bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word). A crate doesnt belong in IMCA and every other sanctioning. Some dude in Mexico trying to build on the same levels as the guy in whatever city in USA trying to make a buck. Last time I checked this is America and the whole point of business is to make money. You run your own business, so what if you lost money because someone decided to stack the rules against you? What if IMCA decided that each stock car manufacturer had to build 20+ cars a year what would you say? Oh sorry, I can only build 3. Although it may save you money and I/my family are on food stamps, atleast you saved money and were able to move up a class and also allow the driver to be taken out of the equation. We are talking about losing drivers/engine builders who have won the best of the best. Why because IMCA feels the cost of the their POS rules are out of control. Although every other sanctioning body is spending twice the amount of money for motors on a weekly basis. The "low budget" everyone is equal bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) has got to stop.

Modlitefan, you have a definite opinion on Crate motors in racing, and while I see your point, I also have to applaud IMCA on trying to control the cost of modified racing. The Modified class is designed (not WAS designed) to be an entry level class where every-day working people can afford to race. Brett and his people have a huge task when taking on racers who at every turn will pay for any advantage that they can get. You mention that "every other sanctioning body is spending twice the amount of money for motors on a weekly basis" and while this is true with UMP and USMTS, they are slowly pricing themselves out. Look around at the UMP sanctioned tracks and what the car counts are. In Texas for example, 10 years ago there were numerous tracks that ran UMP modifieds on a weekly basis. Now, there are only a handful that run them at all, and of those, most run them either once or twice a month. Would you like to go race the same 2-3 guys each week because no one else can afford to race with you? Would the fans like to pay their hard-earned money to watch the same 2-3 guys each week? THIS is what D40 tires and huge engines do to a class with no tech and no enforcement of rules. IMCA does their best to steer clear of this and for that I applaud them. I love racing my IMCA modified with the 9" ford rear, steel heads, no stud girdles, no spoiler, and hard tires. If crates make sense from a cost stand-point so be it. My only wish is that they would allow Ford and Mopar crates as well so we weren't forced to run chevrolet. Just my opinion as a racer and car owner/driver.

Modlitefan0

08-11-2013, 02:40 AM

Jeff-1. I guess you are right. 2 former Supernational Champions could never be fast and havent tried the crate at Boone this year. There must be plenty of people who care about Boone as the stands are packed every week and they are one of the few tracks that still run B's on a weekly basis. 2. Never worked in an engine shop and never will. 3. Will never run a crate once I make the plunge into racing. Got to get life sorted out before I can start racing. Hopefully within the next 5 years I will be on the track. Modracr 41- I do agree with you on IMCA letting people run more than just the GM crate. The point has been brought up to Brett about making one of Fords crate motors legal but since they have (dont quote me here) 15HP more than the GM crate they cannot run.

dukesracin

08-11-2013, 08:33 AM

Modlitefan, you have a definite opinion on Crate motors in racing, and while I see your point, I also have to applaud IMCA on trying to control the cost of modified racing. The Modified class is designed (not WAS designed) to be an entry level class where every-day working people can afford to race. Brett and his people have a huge task when taking on racers who at every turn will pay for any advantage that they can get. You mention that "every other sanctioning body is spending twice the amount of money for motors on a weekly basis" and while this is true with UMP and USMTS, they are slowly pricing themselves out. Look around at the UMP sanctioned tracks and what the car counts are. In Texas for example, 10 years ago there were numerous tracks that ran UMP modifieds on a weekly basis. Now, there are only a handful that run them at all, and of those, most run them either once or twice a month. Would you like to go race the same 2-3 guys each week because no one else can afford to race with you? Would the fans like to pay their hard-earned money to watch the same 2-3 guys each week? THIS is what D40 tires and huge engines do to a class with no tech and no enforcement of rules. IMCA does their best to steer clear of this and for that I applaud them. I love racing my IMCA modified with the 9" ford rear, steel heads, no stud girdles, no spoiler, and hard tires. If crates make sense from a cost stand-point so be it. My only wish is that they would allow Ford and Mopar crates as well so we weren't forced to run chevrolet. Just my opinion as a racer and car owner/driver.

Well said.......this class is doomed to price out weekly racers just like the Supers. Another thing is when I was a kid a Late model was a camaro all modified out with big tires......now late model is a sophisticated machine costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. The modifieds I watched early on were pieced together from junkyard cars and parts, the motors were hopped up stockers, the tires were hard, and the racing was good....every week! Just like NASCAR should do.......dirt racing sanction bodies should put the stock back into stock car racing at local dirt tracks!

Modlitefan0

08-11-2013, 02:05 PM

So all of the hours each week getting 2 cars ready means that I am not invested? I mean, if I werent around, my driver sure as (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) would not be able to race every week like he does now. I give up hours at a part time job and spend my Wednesday nights plus all of my Fridays and Saturdays at the shop. So tell me, how is it that I am not invested?

drive3b

08-11-2013, 07:59 PM

"Stock car to IMCA mod is a lateral move" How do you figure?

Modlitefan0

08-12-2013, 09:00 AM

drive3b, Because he is retarded. Hey Jeff, no need to buy truck, trailer, car. We are already building truck and trailer to replace the other ones we have. And since when is time free? You must not be a very good business man if you think time is free.

MM90

08-12-2013, 11:06 AM

The Ford Crate cost on average 2K more than the 604, that was the main reason what I was told why the aren't allowing it. Also said they wouldn't work with them on the seal bolt program. The extra 15hp is moot because it still weighs about 50# more than the 604. I would be all about the crate engine program if they allowed the Ford to run.

modracr41

08-12-2013, 08:44 PM

Your time is free, nobodys paying you to work 24 hours a day, your not too bright.

drive3b, Moving from the top stock body class to the top open wheel class seems lateral to me. Both stock cars and mods have touring series in IMCA. Both are the top of their respective type of car and both HAVE a entry level class under them in hobby and sportmods.

And I haven't moved anyways I have both cars still.

No, Stock car driver, I was with you until this last post. I drove a Street stock then I moved UP to a modified. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, and much less "stock parts".

Following my logic above, then next step up would be a Late Model. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, NO stock parts.

Just my opinion, but realistically, who cares? If you run a mini-stock or a Lucas Oil Late Model, we're all racers running our cars for the thrill of competition to the best of our ability and $$.

powerslide

08-12-2013, 09:23 PM

No, Stock car driver, I was with you until this last post. I drove a Street stock then I moved UP to a modified. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, and much less "stock parts".

Following my logic above, then next step up would be a Late Model. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, NO stock parts.

Just my opinion, but realistically, who cares? If you run a mini-stock or a Lucas Oil Late Model, we're all racers running our cars for the thrill of competition to the best of our ability and $$.

You guys are wasting your breath on SCD he is gods gift to racing. If you dont believe me just ask him. Man this is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friends.

LITE-INN

08-12-2013, 09:39 PM

No, Stock car driver, I was with you until this last post. I drove a Street stock then I moved UP to a modified. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, and much less "stock parts".Following my logic above, then next step up would be a Late Model. Much more HP, much faster, more aftermarket parts, more engine, more fabricated parts, NO stock parts.Just my opinion, but realistically, who cares? If you run a mini-stock or a Lucas Oil Late Model, we're all racers running our cars for the thrill of competition to the best of our ability and $$.interesting you don't say

stock car driver

08-12-2013, 10:12 PM

You guys are wasting your breath on SCD he is gods gift to racing. If you dont believe me just ask him. Man this is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friends.

AND drum roll please.. my number one fan shows up!!

Have you got to race that pos mod of yours at all this year? or still just a few times a year for ya?

I raced down your way several times this spring, I cant believe after all the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) you've talked you didn't come introduce yourself. I suppose you couldn't afford the pit pass. bahahaha

powerslide

08-12-2013, 11:48 PM

AND drum roll please.. my number one fan shows up!!

Have you got to race that pos mod of yours at all this year? or still just a few times a year for ya?

I raced down your way several times this spring, I cant believe after all the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) you've talked you didn't come introduce yourself. I suppose you couldn't afford the pit pass. bahahaha

You know how to check my facebook to see how many times ive raced.

You failed to remind me you were coming, where did you run? Maybe i could of got a rent a ride in those old junk stocks and beat on you a little.

Again boys its like wrestling a pig...

LITE--OUT

08-13-2013, 09:47 AM

interesting you don't sayliteinn the worst thing is the that even the guy that rolled that car would wax u like a cheap car. picture your rooty poo @ss even sitting in a car! hahaha looking like a lost puppy

LITE-INN

08-13-2013, 09:53 AM

I was on a race team probably bef ore most were born

modracr41

08-13-2013, 09:54 AM

Well your street stock must be very different from our IMCA cars. Our IMCA cars have fabricated floor, firewall, tin rear behind seat, moved a arms etc. They cost the same as a roller modified from builders if not more. The only thing stock on our IMCA cars are the rear trailing arms and lower a arms. not much difference from a mod...

as for hp, my two barrel stock car motor makes ten hp over the 604 crate on gas.

My mod is faster, 600 lighter makes a difference!

604 crate on gas isn't a mod engine. It's an option, but my motor puts out over 650HP and yours is no where close to that. The only parts on my car that are stock are the front stub, steering box, drag link, and inner tie rod. Yours has a stock steel body, stock frame that has been modified, stock trailing arms, etc. As for money spent, you can spend $100,000 on a street stock if you're inclined to do so, but it doesn't make sense to run for $300 to win (Mods pay $500 or more depending on track)If you can't see the point here, you are OTL.

LITE--OUT

08-13-2013, 09:58 AM

I was on a race team probably bef ore most were bornracing to the tavern doesnt count

LITE-INN

08-13-2013, 10:08 AM

never ever go to the tavern and you say you know me lmao

LITE-INN

08-13-2013, 10:10 AM

604 crate on gas isn't a mod engine. It's an option, but my motor puts out over 650HP and yours is no where close to that. The only parts on my car that are stock are the front stub, steering box, drag link, and inner tie rod. Yours has a stock steel body, stock frame that has been modified, stock trailing arms, etc. As for money spent, you can spend $100,000 on a street stock if you're inclined to do so, but it doesn't make sense to run for $300 to win (Mods pay $500 or more depending on track)If you can't see the point here, you are OTL. your trying make sense of racing you will get cents

LITE--OUT

08-13-2013, 10:19 AM

never ever go to the tavern and you say you know me lmaooh i do know you..and thats why i said it moron. cuz i know how u feel about drinking. ur dumber than u look.. and u look as about as dumb as they come!

blackdoom16

08-13-2013, 01:26 PM

I was on a race team probably bef ore most were born

Interpreted: Ffffaaarrrttttttttttttt(a$$hole talking)

brownIdriller

08-13-2013, 01:29 PM

your trying make sense of racing you will get cents

Like trying to get some sort of literate thought out of your BS, huh?

brownIdriller

08-13-2013, 01:30 PM

Interpreted: Ffffaaarrrttttttttttttt(a$$hole talking)

Now THAT's some funny stuff there, I don't care WHO you are!!

LITE-INN

08-14-2013, 08:06 AM

Now THAT's some funny stuff there, I don't care WHO you are!!just like a little child the smallest things amuse you

Leeracing40

08-15-2013, 08:56 AM

Two cents......With the crate running in deeper, on deceleration, would the lack of compression/hp free the car up more. Open motors on deceleration really effect the rear tires. Just thinking, when you back the car in with the big motor, the car backs itself in......Does the crate not effect the rear tires as much to let you get set up a little better through the center????

shockmod3x

08-15-2013, 10:20 AM

please read Lite Inn..as this applies to you.

modracr41

08-15-2013, 10:07 PM

I don't see your point. Your welcome to your opinion apparently Im not allowed to have mine if u don't agree with it? To me the Imca modified and Imca stock car classes are equal. If it offends you put me on ur ignore list I don't care.

As for your motors hp, who cares are you going to tell me next your dad can beat up mine or what?

Look guy, I'm not trying to be adversarial here. I'm simply trying to explain to you that a modified and a street stock car aren't equal classes. I've raced at over 20 different race tracks from Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, and Louisiana and not one track I've ever been to paid the stock cars what the mod class paid, nor did any of them consider them equal. Maybe IMCA does? I don't know. I'm not one of the guys on here who bashes people or stirs crap. Lord knows there are enough of them. As I said before, who really cares? If you own or drive a racecar, be it a hornet, street stock, hobby stock, modified, Late Model, or sprint car that makes you a racer. End of story. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you race.

LITE-INN

08-15-2013, 10:50 PM

someone needs to read the rule book

modracr41

08-16-2013, 09:23 AM

your cracking me up. U can try and explain till your blue in the face you apparently don't have either type of car Im talking about. Ive got a Imca stock car and a IMCA modified and to me they are the same, I can race either at specials around here or traveling series or go to weekly shows, they are both the top class for their respective type of car. There are guys I race against that have 300 wins in each class.

I race as many tracks as you've been to in your life per season in my imca stock car.

Ive raced my imca stock car for 4500, 2500 and 1000 to win a few times this year. Sounds like where you are racing your street stock the pay sux and the rules are just a modified with a cobbled up late model body and late model tires most likely. I saw classes of cars like that when I went to the Ice Bowl in Alabama and the Bama Bash in Alabama.

You're making a LOT of assumptions guy. If you read what I wrote no where did I say that I had only raced at 1 track in each state in my life. Second of all you seem to want to argue. I don't have time. Have a great week and good luck. I'm going to work on my mod to get ready for the weekend.

shockmod3x

08-16-2013, 09:29 AM

your cracking me up. U can try and explain till your blue in the face you apparently don't have either type of car Im talking about. Ive got a Imca stock car and a IMCA modified and to me they are the same, I can race either at specials around here or traveling series or go to weekly shows, they are both the top class for their respective type of car. There are guys I race against that have 300 wins in each class.

I race as many tracks as you've been to in your life per season in my imca stock car.

Ive raced my imca stock car for 4500, 2500 and 1000 to win a few times this year. Sounds like where you are racing your street stock the pay sux and the rules are just a modified with a cobbled up late model body and late model tires most likely. I saw classes of cars like that when I went to the Ice Bowl in Alabama and the Bama Bash in Alabama.

stock car equal to a mod...lol not in UMP land....maybe over in Iowa, but not in UMP.

LITE-INN

08-16-2013, 09:41 AM

no kidding

LITE-INN

08-18-2013, 10:07 AM

http://www.imca.cc/

RaceTechKs

09-06-2013, 01:51 AM

Hey guys......All I can tell you is......Stop Racing with the Crate Engines. IMCA is going to continue to give the Crates the advantage, your fighting a losing battle. Just go race where the Crates are kept in check. The whole problem here is for the ones of you questioning if the Crates have been given an advantage have not been skull washed by IMCA yet. Now the ones who have been Skull washed by IMCA will say, your all cry babies just buy a Crate if its an advantage, There cheaper to own and run and there equal and sealed....there all the same.............Bull Crap, there being cheated everyday. If you think there all the same....Go buy One, take it to a machine shop and have them go thru it Blue Print it and do what needs done. Then put the bolts back in it and PAY IMCA to seal it. You will see what I mean....and yea its being done everyday.

Leeracing40

09-06-2013, 08:22 AM

Stock car driver.......how does your crate run on heavy tracks. I have an open motor and I am thinking of going crate.

CHRISTINE

09-06-2013, 10:07 AM

Im thinking the same Jesse came to our track early in the year and whipped our a$$ with his crate and there is another guy that changed his program from a 5-10place car to a 1-5 car just by going crate. How much less gear do you run vrs open? now i run a 529 and turn around 7400-7800 in feature

Leeracing40

09-06-2013, 03:05 PM

Stock car.........your track is dry.

http://youtu.be/ainxNqJZ3uc

Here is a clip of my incar on a heavy track. Broke the rear gear right off the start. We have one guy that is trying to run a crate, but he cannot even come close to the drive we have......he runs a Hughes chassis. From everything I have read in the struggle of crate vs open, it seems as though the crate doesn't do we'll on heavy, but kicks butt on dry.

Leeracing40

09-06-2013, 05:22 PM

Been coast to coast racing. Missouri has some heavy tracks, so does Illinois. Just stating what I have seen personally. The guy running the crate is no slouch. He has won numerous races at the home track and a couple championships. Maybe there is something we are missing. He gets the car to roll in well, but through the center and off the big motors eat him up. I would love to run a crate and save half of my money dedicated to motors. Right now I can't see that happening until the motors are a little more equal.

Leeracing40

09-07-2013, 07:51 AM

No contradiction, we have one guy that just started racing his modified two weeks ago. He has a crate. If you don't have anything to add to this post supporting the topic, you should quit trolling.

RaceTechKs

09-08-2013, 01:30 AM

Stock Car Driver: Im not going to get into a back and forth match with you because it would be a waste of my time. You are just another one that races IMCA thats been convinced by them that this don't happen. I can tell you I know for a fact it does, and know of two machine shops that have done it and then had the engines sealed by IMCA. There have been drivers that have said they have driven cars with the same crate engines and One ran a whole lot better then the other, and were put in at almost the same time.....If there the same 602 how the hell is that possable.??????? Can't wait to hear this answer from the guy who knows it all....or thinks he does. Little update for you.....Both of the engines I know about have made the field at the Super Nationals for 2013. One in the Modifieds and One in the Sportmods. And No Im not telling you where they finished because then you would know as much as me......and nope your Tech Officials did not catch them either. And guess what, One of those engines will be in a Hobby Stock next year because it is sold and a new 602 has been ordered for the Sportmod just so you know. Crate Motor racing........ What a joke, I wonder how many there really are out there ? I bet its more then you think.

50j

09-08-2013, 10:25 AM

I would point out that the bolt on parts and the owners ability to tune it will make a huge difference. We all know people that can make engines run well and the ones that can destroy a wrecking ball. The way the car is set up can also change the way it feels. When you see the guys that use good parts and know what they're doing buy them straight from the dealer and win with them, it seems like a good program. They are very close to each other in stock form too. GM really does a pretty good job with that. Yes, open motors are great too. Different strokes.

Stock Car Driver: Im not going to get into a back and forth match with you because it would be a waste of my time. You are just another one that races IMCA thats been convinced by them that this don't happen. I can tell you I know for a fact it does, and know of two machine shops that have done it and then had the engines sealed by IMCA. There have been drivers that have said they have driven cars with the same crate engines and One ran a whole lot better then the other, and were put in at almost the same time.....If there the same 602 how the hell is that possable.??????? Can't wait to hear this answer from the guy who knows it all....or thinks he does. Little update for you.....Both of the engines I know about have made the field at the Super Nationals for 2013. One in the Modifieds and One in the Sportmods. And No Im not telling you where they finished because then you would know as much as me......and nope your Tech Officials did not catch them either. And guess what, One of those engines will be in a Hobby Stock next year because it is sold and a new 602 has been ordered for the Sportmod just so you know. Crate Motor racing........ What a joke, I wonder how many there really are out there ? I bet its more then you think.

Leeracing40

09-08-2013, 06:37 PM

Keeping within the thread...........my buddy tried z linking the right rear. He finished sixth in main. Car picked up a little. Track went dry slick ( was an open night with a lot of USRA guys coming up from KC). Car drove in and through the center well and had decent drive off, but Still haven't seen enough from the crate to make the switch. Would like to see the numbers from Boone ........

RaceTechKs

09-08-2013, 07:49 PM

Stock Car Driver: My whole point is that you should care, these engines were at Boone and took the spots of some honest racers. My whole problem is, I don't think just because its a "Sealed Crate Engine" that it should never be not be looked at. I think this is a HUGE mistake IMCA and the others out there are making. We are all racers and we all know that people cheat.....and by not Teching the Crates your giving them a place to do it knowing they will not be checked. Well its just my opinion and a known fact that its happening in IMCA. But its up to IMCA to fix it but there convinced its not happening so their going to let it go. Now they have a Tire Sniffer, but said for years that tire doping was not happening in IMCA, but guess what its only 10 years to late to admit you have the same problem everone else has, so in a few years when they convince everone that its there idea to check Crates they will start doing that too. Leeracing40: Just keep watching and doing your home work, you will see where the advantages and disadvantages are in owning a Crate and some of its the driver some of its the track.......but most of the advantage is with in the rules.

charcoal01

09-08-2013, 09:18 PM

Heres a story a little birdie told me. These guys are selling them after 15 nights because nitro isn't easy on the internals of those motors.

Dirtracer50

09-08-2013, 11:10 PM

Are all the guys running and winning with the crate motors running methanol? I've only raced against one crate engine all season and I'm pretty sure he was running pump gas. To me running methanol in these engines is a lil counterproductive to the intent of allowing the crates. From what I've been told these engines won't last near as long on methanol as they do on gas that's why some guys are selling them after 10 to 15 nights. How much money is someone really saving buying a new crate every 15 nights? I would think thru the course of a season one or two open motors may end up being cheaper. I'm on the west coast so I'm not as in the know as some of you in the Midwest is why I'm asking. I am seriously considering a crate for next season by the way.

Modlitefan0

09-09-2013, 01:27 AM

Little tidbits from this week as well as where our race team will be headed. 1st- A crew member from a friend driver here in central IA told us that they have bought 3 different crates this year. Keep in mind they have an open car and a crate car. Was told they were getting about 10 nights out of them. 2nd- On Wednesday night in the tech tent, we were first nonqualifier so we had to sit and wait just incase someone got DQed. Anywho, the one crate that made the show was teched by the dealer in which he bought his crate from while the IMCA official stood back. To me this throws up a red flag when coupled with some of the other information I heard over the course of the week. 3rd- If I heard correctly 5 of the 33 were crates but do not quote me on this as I forgot to look at the cars in staging before hand to confirm this. 4th- This part is not really anything important or answering any questions but more of a general opinion. The guy who won had a crate in. He ran 3rd most of the race until about lap 38 or so when the leader hit a hole messed up and collected the 2nd place car. Crate took the lead for a green white checkered and if there were 2 more laps he would have gotten beat. I wont take anything away from the driver as he kept himself in a position to win and luck just so happened to be apart of it. In the end, I believe 2 crates were in the top 5 or 6. Jesse seemed to be going backwards but I was not paying much attention. I know at one point he was collected in a wreck and was toed out at the end of the race but he wasnt able to drive through the field before that happened. If the rules dont change for next year, we will be forced to buy a crate if we have any intentions of being competitive again. We went from winning 7 of 11 races last year and 3 consecutive track championships at one track to back of the pack every week because of the crate.

LITE-INN

09-09-2013, 08:36 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

powerslide

09-09-2013, 10:14 AM

Heres a story a little birdie told me. These guys are selling them after 15 nights because nitro isn't easy on the internals of those motors.

surely w/ all the tech at boone this didnt slip by...

gunslinger11c

09-09-2013, 11:05 AM

That's what I want to see how did the crates do at Boone. I am just waiting to see if I want to build a new open motor or just buy a crate motor. Does anyone have the results from Boone broke down with how the crate motors did?

Modlitefan0

09-09-2013, 11:24 AM

Did you not see my post above Gunslinger? 5 of 33 were crates in big dance according to first reports. Wait until November before you do anything as IMCA has said there may be some rule changes coming.

charcoal01

09-09-2013, 12:44 PM

Pathetic? You're sobbings lapdog, of course you're going to come to his defense. I never said he specifically is, I however know of two drivers personally who are doing just that. Did they pull fuel samples at boone? How do you know nobody was? I can even tell you the exact dyno numbers a crate makes on methanol and nitro. People are doing it, please don't try to pretend they're not.

drive3b

09-09-2013, 02:32 PM

Weight break for the crates?!? Are you serious? You already have alum heads (which takes a big chunk of weight off the front of the car), roller cam, a 3" spoiler, a change in tire compound, and you get to run fuel (alky) that these engines were not designed to be run on. The crates did a LOT of winning, especially in big races. If you were to compare the number of crate engines to open engines percentage wise they definitely don't need any more of an advantage. Just curious, how many races have you run in IMCA modified now that you switched from stock car?

LITE--OUT

09-09-2013, 02:44 PM

you're sobbings lapdog.......lol

powerslide

09-09-2013, 03:30 PM

I can even tell you the exact dyno numbers a crate makes on methanol and nitro.

I'm interested, if you dont want to put it out in public you can PM it to me. They started running IMCA at one of the local tracks this year. Pay is higher than at any of the usra/outlaw tracks around here.

mod11h

09-09-2013, 08:49 PM

Having watched the Supernational sat. nite at boone. I did see that not all created equal. Some crates were fast and others were. Smith did win but he was not fast compared the two cars in front until lap 38. In the right place at the right time hats off to him for that. Boones not a good track for the crates. Crates do have a place but not a fan of imca. Taked to one guy from Wisc and he just put a new harris together with a crate everything was not notch for a cheap $31000.00 and he plans on racing it this winter down south with the crate. imo lets go back to the $ 500 claim and have some good old fashion fights in the pits after the races like the old days.

charcoal01

09-09-2013, 09:21 PM

10 nights. why? Does that matter? charcoal probably hasn't ever turned a lap and for sure half the other experts on here haven't either.

How about 14 feature event wins at three different tracks sound for back up? I know for a fact I've won more modified main events than you and I sit second in track points currently. Not only that, I'm 100 positive my knowledge of these cars is superior to yours. So please don't start picking fights and calling names about someone you know nothing about.

People are cheating the crates, they are not being teched like other motors, end of story.

C10

09-09-2013, 11:44 PM

modracr41

09-10-2013, 08:15 AM

Not only have I checked fuel, but have also pumped crates, checked valve springs and passed a camera down through them. Not all tech is created equal. Just because it has seal bolts doesnt mean squat to me, it gets checked no matter what.

Now THIS is a good tech man. They are worth their weight in gold. The problem is that there aren't too many of them. Most want to hurry up and get home. They don't care that they are hurting the class or that they aren't doing the job that they were hired to do. A real tech man's job starts AFTER the feature and stops when the last car has been THOROUGHLY checked.

MM90

09-10-2013, 09:21 AM

Anybody know of who made the main at Nationals that ran a Crate weekly then ran an open engine for Nationals? Gustin is the only one that I know of, but he ran his open car at Boone weekly and his crate car everywhere else. He rolled his primary car and qualified in his back up, I didn't see if it was a crate or open.

charcoal01

09-10-2013, 12:29 PM

Ricky thorton jr had been on a crate most of the year out in az. He's switched back to the open a few times on weekends where he's going to a track that got rain but other than that it's a crate.

dirty white boy

09-10-2013, 01:54 PM

way crates are round here...builders will buy x number of motors,...tare them all down an mic every thing out an match up best parts,..blue print an what not,...re assemble an dyno,..then price them according to best power an torque numbers,..good ones start round 7500,...an most the front runners round here spend that money an have builders names on there fenders or hoods advertizing it! so the builders still building but ant as much money in it as unlimited motors...tech,hell ant none sept seal checks,...protest is done by the builders....some are shady,..some seem straight up but ya never know less your there...

RaceTechKs

09-10-2013, 10:42 PM

stock car driver: What were trying to say is this is happening believe it or not. We are also saying that if IMCA dont start checking them it will get out of control. Just because its sealed don't mean anything. I Know you think were all crazy but were not. Its just like the Nitro, its happening. Only thing is don't just check the Gas...better check the oil to, this is an old Kart Trick. So if you see a Crate with a PCV Valve,,,,think about it and check the oil.............................. C10-----I have done the same thing with the crates, I check them just like I do the open engines. I love it when you tell them you want to Pump a Crate,,,,They all say the same thing..."What for its a crate"..LOL.....I just say the same thing.."I don't care" .....I make them pull the Headers and check the exhauts ports just like the open engines for porting. We will even pull valve springs off the head to test them. There not special just because there a crate.

RaceTechKs

09-10-2013, 10:59 PM

One last thing, and I will leave this alone. I just want to tell you something I thought was funny........This year at the $10.000 to win at West Plains we were pre-teching cars and when I got to this one guy......He looked at me and said........"This is an IMCA Sealed Crate Engine and the Chassis is a Harris you don't need to check it because its been teched by IMCA and passed" I just laughed and looked at him and said....."This is not IMCA and I don't care if its a Harris or not, What makes Harris special". We found his Soft Touch not working, He wanted to know where we got our testers from. We told him from MSD and its a Brand New Tester.....We were using there proto type and was being showed how to use it by the MSD trainer....It was funny when his control did not work.....I just looked at him and said........Like I said I dont care, fix it or you wont race. Wonder how often they test MSD boxes to...?????

Modlitefan0

09-11-2013, 12:59 AM

At SN, I know they checked boxes. SCD if you dont think that Freisen out of NE is touching stuff before they seal it up you dont like to question things. It is funny that the only 2 crates that really did much last week were from them. No other crate out there was able to pull the open motors off of the corner. IMCA might not do (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) about it but I will raise hell until further notice. We all knew IMCA wouldnt DQ their poster boys for the crate but now that they won SN look out for a rule change come November. If not, bye bye modifieds hello late models.

dirty white boy

09-11-2013, 11:43 AM

hell,..can buy the chevy seal bolts on ebay,..raceingjunk.com too,...know of a 383 ci 602 crate motor with seals,..know bout them aftermarket cams with crate part numbers on the down low,...look alike valve springs,..know a few that plum 100 shot nitrios oxide threw air filter,...traction control an tire dope gose a long way too

C10

09-11-2013, 02:31 PM

I have a scanner on my smart phone, it is a scanner and data base directly from GM and it WILL scan the imprinted laser box on the seal bolts. That laser imprint tells me EXACTLY who the engine was sold to, where it was built and what dealer sold it. I have the MSD test boxes, one will check the whole system from dizzy to box, the other checks chips. But there is a way to check the rev circuit with out them. All it takes is a VOM and a half plugged in 3000 rpm pill. This checks the resistance of the entire rev circuit of the box and chip all at the same time. If there is a timer or resister in the circuit the ohm's will be off the charts. Not all tech guys are stupid and lazy. If you race at a track that has no tech to speak of then you NEED to call IMCA and voice your concern in a PROFESSIONAL manner. Dont just call them up and say "So and so racer is cheating and there doing nothing about it". That just makes you look like a cry baby.
IMCA rules are as they are to create parity, and to have the racers somewhat police themselves. Their phone line is ALWAYS open and most IMCA tech's and directors post their E mail and phone numbers in the monthly news paper. Instead of always crying on here CONTACT them. Its simple. Thanks. Sean Walker IMCA IMS tech .

dirty white boy

09-11-2013, 03:25 PM

There is not one single seal bolt on ebay that will pass tech from even 5 feet away. Even you can visibly tell the difference most likely, lol.

Gm seal bolts are encrypted with a code..

IMCA has a cable lock seal on them also, this thread is about IMCA Modifieds.

was speaking on the crates as a whole as there ant no imca round here,just fastrac an NDRA but if these can cheat up a crate an get seals on them,..imca crates can too,..if there's enough $$$ put down...

50j

09-11-2013, 04:20 PM

The crate motors with nitrous oxide and stuff are in cars driven by The Werewolf, Sasquatch, and a Space Alien. If you see them, point out the problems to the tech man. The legal race winning crate motors can be bought after the race.

charcoal01

09-11-2013, 08:14 PM

I don't know about the claims of nitrous oxide, but I'm talking about nitromethane. When used in small quantities, which is about all the crates bottom end can handle, it's pretty hard to detect in fuel samples, regardless of what all these guys who believe their heros don't cheat Try to tell you.

RaceTechKs

09-11-2013, 08:50 PM

Stock Car Driver: I got to post on what you said, JUST BECAUSE you drive, Own, Build or what ever it is you do other then being a know it ALL......I don't know nor do I care, But I can tell you there are MORE GUYS out there that know about setting up race cars, building race cars and tuning race cars that have forgot more then most of you KNOW IT ALL BIG HEADED DRIVERS WILL EVER KNOW ABOUT RACE CARS. Dont you ever sell the guys that just work on them short on there knowlage. Just because they don't DRIVE a car don't mean there stupid....Mr Big Head Stock Car Driver. IM DONE WITH YOU FOR NOW UNTIL YOU SAY SOMETHING ELSE STUPID !!!!.

Leeracing40

09-12-2013, 09:45 AM

Those of us that have raced long enough aren't surprised by anything.......including listening to the guys that think they seen it all and done it all.

TeamGRT12x

09-12-2013, 09:54 PM

I know who that stand around kid is, he is from my area.

20 years of racing building cars doesn't mean I know everything by any means. I do know that my legal and other legal IMCA crate motors run just fine.

So this clown thinks that cheating a 604 to gain 30 horse is going to make a huge difference when you're already 100 if not more down from an open motor. JJ stop playing with these fools they know nothing.

charcoal01

09-12-2013, 11:33 PM

Aluminum heads, 3 inch blade, roller motor. Win nearly every big show of the year? I would say they don't need any more advantages as it is, let alone alone a "meer" 30-40 more hp. You sir have your head in the sand

powerslide

09-13-2013, 10:25 AM

388 cubes
9.5 to 1 compression
stock heavy rods
15lb balancer
55-56lb crank
heavy azz pistons
6400rpm chip rule

388!!! No wonder Sobbing runs circles around everyone in those things!!

stock car driver

09-13-2013, 12:36 PM

388!!! No wonder Sobbing runs circles around everyone in those things!!

typo dum azz

Thanks for being a fan.

lov2race

10-01-2013, 08:44 PM

Hear aTHE PROTEST FEE FOR A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN AN ENGINE THAT FINISHES THE A-MAIN IS $900, AND
THE FEE MUST BE PAID TO THE RACE DIRECTOR OR TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, IN CASH, WITHIN 10 MINUTES
AFTER THE CHECKERED FLAG HAS FALLEN ON THE A-MAIN. MUST FINISH IN THE TOP 5 TO BE ELIGIBLE
TO PROTEST. $250 OF PROTEST FEE WILL GO THE SERIES, REMAINING $650 WILL GO TO WINNER OF
PROTEST.
2. AT ANY TIME AN ENGINE IS PROTESTED, AND DRIVER/CAR OWNER ACCEPTS PROTEST AND AGREES TO
TEAR DOWN, THE ENGINE BEING PROTESTED MUST BE REMOVED AND IMPOUNDED BY RACE TRACK
RIGHT THEN, AND MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR NATIONAL TECHNICAL DIRECTOR FOR INSPECTION. ANY
REFUSAL AT THIS POINT FOR ANY REASON WILL RESULT IN DISQUALIFICATION, AND DEALT WITH
ACCORDINGLY. (added 6/18/12)
3. ANY CRATE RACING USA SANCTIONED RACE TRACK IS AUTHORIZED TO CALL FOR AN ENGINE INSPECTION
OR TEAR DOWN BY CRATE RACING USA NATIONAL TECHNICAL DIRECTOR. IF THIS HAPPENS TRACK WILL
REMOVE ENGINE AT RACE TRACK, AND IMPOUND UNTIL INSPECTION DAY CAN BE ARRANGED FOR ALL
PARTIES INVOLVED.
4. FAILURE AND/OR REFUSAL TO TEAR DOWN AN ENGINE AND/OR FOR YOUR RACE CAR TO BE INSPECTED
BY SERIES OFFICIALS AT ANY TIME WILL RESULT IN A 365-DAY SUSPENSION AND FINE OF A DETERMINED
AMOUNT BY SERIES OFFICIALS.
5. ONLY THREE PEOPLE FROM THE PROTESTED CAR AND 1 PERSON DESIGNATED FROM THE TEAM
PROTESTING WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE TECH AREA DURING A PROTEST.
the rules from Ne Smith series .this rule has kept the eng builders busy this year