2012 Rayburn spinning the tires

[rayburn33]

I have a 2012 Rayburn and it is a swing arm car it has the new torque arm that comes from the center of rearend forward on right rear I have a 350 spring and left rear 400 and it is setup according to Rayburn's specs other than springs it is not your typical swingarm car it only has the bars to the rear not like the old ones where you had them going forward it has several holes to adjust up and down springs/shock is on front of axle and on birdcage my question is how do I take the spinning out no matter how tight I get the car and take roll out of it it still wants to spin the tires and the left rear doesn't seen to get up on the bars I need help ???????

[Dragoon55]

It sounds like you may be confused yourself on what you have and what a swingarm actually is... First if the springs/shocks are mounted on the birdcage, its NOT a swingarm, period. And if you only have bars to the rear, I'm not sure what that is, maybe a reject from the Rayburn R&D department. Now if you are running shocks/springs and they are on the birdcage, then #350 & #400 are WAY TOO STIFF for anything that indexes the springs(ie 4-link or Z-link), only an actual swing arm would use those springs rates but they'd be mounted on the lower link rods going forward. Try posting a picture. I'll post some pics that may help you figure out what you actually have. First one is a Right Rear 4 Link suspension, spring/shock on birdcage. Second one is a Right Rear Swing Arm suspension, shock/spring on lower link arm. Do either of these look like your car?

[rayburn33]

To make sense of your post I went back and added punctuation where I thought it went so to help me with my confusion. It sounds like you may be confused yourself on what you have and what a swingarm actually is... First if the springs/shocks are mounted on the birdcage, its NOT a swingarm, period. And if you only have bars to the rear, I'm not sure what that is, imaginary maybe. Now if you are running shocks/springs and they are on the birdcage, then #350 & #400 are WAY TOO STIFF for anything that indexes the springs(ie 4-link or Z-link), only an actual swing arm would use those springs rates but they'd be mounted on the lower link rods going forward, but you don't have those... Your tuning adjustments make no more sense than your description of your car. Try posting again what you have, with punctuation and maybe help can be found, right now none of it makes any sense. Lastly Rayburn doesn't recommend #350 & #400 for his 4 link stuff or the Z-link. If you are unable to describe things better try posting a picture. I'll post some pics that may help you figure out what you actually have. First is a Right Rear 4 Link suspension, spring/shock on birdcage. Second is a Right Rear Swing Arm suspension, shock/spring on lower link arm. Do either of these look like your car?
Yes the swing arm on right rear is exactly what I am talking about and it looks the same on the left rear as well I had a 07 swing arm car and it had where you could make it a z link on either side this one don't the only way to adjust it is with the bars shown in picture and I tried the springs Rayburn suggested and it would not turn on a high banked track all it did was push now with the lighter springs and Rayburn's set up it works great other than the spinning on a tacky track it works well but if it gets dry slick it is over all it does is spin and I am sorry that you feel I have a imaginary car at the time of purchase there were only 5 of these torque arm cars that he had built it is entirely different from my 07 it had a lift bar and far more adjustments this one has very few

[rayburn33]

And as far as springs go I meant the springs and shocks were on trailer arm which is attached to bird cage I didn't mean actually attached to bird cage

[rayburn33]

I also noticed that the afco shocks that are going to the rear on this car are actually pointed forward on mine and on the torque arme there is a 90 10 shock with a stronger spring then the green one Rayburn sent it to me and told me how to put the preload on it

[JustAddDirt]

Kids, Say no to drugs...

I think a picture here would help. I have never heard of anything like you are talking about. Rayburn33.

[Dragoon55]

Now that we've established you have an actual swing arm car, with a pullbar using a green spring. Are you running a J-bar or a RS Panhard bar? This matters. As far as pullbars go, you can't set the preload until after you've scaled the car, so make sure and disconnect the pullbar before scaling. General rule on Rayburn, go down on LR "Trailing arm" for more drive. Go down on RR "Trailing arm" for more roll steer.

[powerslide]

Ease up on him fella's just because he doesnt know all the terminology and doesnt speak well doesnt mean hes strungout on meth. Maybe he is new? We are all far from perfect...

I'm trying to figure out why Dragoon wants him to disconnect the pullbar while scaling?

He may have a torque arm for a "6th coil" and a pullbar? Some guys in the mods run the pullbar/torque arm combo and use the torque arm for braking.

[abe_05]

He must have the new pull bar which at frame is mounted to a monoball, as the body goes up the pull bar angle never changes. Most all are talking about old style pull bar. To help you Rayburn 33, I had not drove the new pull bar but I was working on things out of box that Rayburn didn't do and we talked several times and this monoball setup was the answer. I went to different brand chassis but from looking into it, I understand where problems good be not per say your exact one. Body lift will be the biggest thing to watch, if slick, is car actually lifting (rear suspension travel) ? If it is then is it dropping fast on corner entry. Some of the same principles apply to any swingarm as a 4-bar. On 4-bar it is easy to go softer right front and more shock compression on left rear which keeps left rear up so keeping bar angle in it. But this pull bar don't like pinning right front down but you have to keep bar angle into it somehow period. I am assuming the confusion in your post is you are comparing your 07 had only 1 hole for swingarm on frame and new has 5 or 6 ? 2 things you play with it when gets slick, dropping both rear trailing arm and raising both rear swingarm on chassis. This will pick chassis up quicker, now if you already have tried it then you need to move to shocks and add compression to keep chassis hiked up longer. I don't care what kind of chassis your in if chassis drops all the way down before you hit gas on really slick track, you will be going backwards. Really need to know more info on car and track also, if track is real tight corner raising just the swingarm on chassis will give more roll steer. I went different direction because this new and a lot of unknowns but I am very interested in this concept. I do believe this will be great once it is all worked out.

[abe_05]

Also you can play with pull bar angle, change length of rod from monoball to rearend. Put angle finder on pull bar and always keep track of it. This is one of the unknown factors to this new pull bar, how much pull bar angle. Call CJ and get number from someone that is running it with success.

[rayburn33]

Mr dragon I do drive my car thank you and it's nice your such a smart ass yes I may not know all the real names to the parts on my car but I am honestly trying to describe them my car is like the swing arm above it has the shocks on the link arm and I guess if its what you call it the swing arm to the rear it is this way on both sides and referring to my 07 it had swing arms going forward and backwards on both sides it also had the purple bar this one doesn't it also has a torque arm that is a 2 inch by 2 inch bar that has a 90 10 shock on top of it and a green spring in front of the shock and yes it was preloaded before I got in because when at Rayburn's shop that's the way Roy (Rayburn's employee) installed it and as far as the afco shocks I mentioned on my 07 they was on the rear of the axle pointing toward the fuel cell on this one they are on too of front of axle headed forward the only way to adjust this car is moving swing arms which is pointing backward up or down I have tried uploading photos but I only have a phone and it will not allow me to I am sorry for not knowing proper names I am describing the best that I can and as far as the torque arm on my 07 it had a lift bar with spring and chain etc. this is just a bar and only moves up and down about 8 inches at most Rayburn told me this was a design in the 80s with a fiberglass rod

[rayburn33]

Lets start all over because of the confusion lets start with the rear end on the drivers side the swingarm goes to the rear and the link arm goes forward and has no adjustments up or down the swing arm to the rear has 9 holes to adjust with and also on the driver side also has a straight bar with no adjustments now on the right rear the swing arm goes to the rear the same way as the drivers side the link arm on rr is also carrying the shock as on the drivers side the swing arm goes to the rear as well and has 7 holes to adjust with now the torque arm has a 90 10 shock on top and is approx 6 foot long and goes beside the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit thru a tubular halo which limits how high it can raise the shock on too also has a green spring in front of the shock and the whole set up was preloaded by Rayburn now on top of the rearend I have 2 afco shocks facing forward and as I stated earlier on my 07 they was pointed to the rear now I have described this the best way I know how and I have adjusted with the springs and different holes with the swingarms I have no idea what to do any further

[el paso mod 19]

This is a 2012 Rayburn and nobody at Rayburn can tell you how to adjust this car? Seems to me Rayburn should have never released this car from the R & D Dept.

[rayburn33]

I totally agree its been a nightmare since I have owned it I have spent hours on the phone with Rayburn and sometimes his memory gets the best of him I have never seen or heard of a car like this one in the south but I do know he made some because when I went and purchased this there were some there I think it's about time to punt because I can't explain how this car is built and people think I'm crazy I have friends who has Rayburn's and they don't know what to do with it either

[abe_05]

I believe you have what CJ calls a leaf spring with the fiberglass arm. Scrap it and go mount 4- bar brackets in car and start over. Or take it back to Rayburn and get update to new pull bar that I thought you were talking about. The car is good just change rear end brackets on car.

[rayburn33]

It's not a leaf car it is just like the swing arm car pictured above the only difference in the picture above and my car is the direction of shocks on top of the rearend mine is heading forward and the link bar has no adjustments on mine (can't go up or down ) on either side but on the 07 it had adjustments for the link arm

[rayburn33]

The torque arm is square tubing not fiberglass

[abe_05]

K, CJ was playing with the fiberglass arm 2 years ago. Sounds like you have a test car. I would love to see picture of what you have.

[4bangerhotrod]

Are you sure that your swingarms are not pointing forward from the bottom of the birdcage with your shocks and springs on them and your trailing arms pointing to the rear off the top of the birdcage. That's the way a Rayburn should be setup i think you may still have your terms wrong. Just t.
rying to help clear up the confusion

[4bangerhotrod]

There called trailing arms because they trail be
hind you.

[rayburn33]

Ok no the trailing arms are just like the ones pictured above in dragons post it looks like that on my car on both sides both arms are heading backwards and link arm forward and after doing some research all the Rayburn's have multiple holes for link arm to be raised my does not it only has one gusset to bolt to

[Dragoon55]

Mr dragon I do drive my car thank you and it's nice your such a smart ass yes I may not know all the real names to the parts on my car but I am honestly trying to describe them my car is like the swing arm above it has the shocks on the link arm and I guess if its what you call it the swing arm to the rear it is this way on both sides and referring to my 07 it had swing arms going forward and backwards on both sides it also had the purple bar this one doesn't it also has a torque arm that is a 2 inch by 2 inch bar that has a 90 10 shock on top of it and a green spring in front of the shock and yes it was preloaded before I got in because when at Rayburn's shop that's the way Roy (Rayburn's employee) installed it and as far as the afco shocks I mentioned on my 07 they was on the rear of the axle pointing toward the fuel cell on this one they are on too of front of axle headed forward the only way to adjust this car is moving swing arms which is pointing backward up or down I have tried uploading photos but I only have a phone and it will not allow me to I am sorry for not knowing proper names I am describing the best that I can and as far as the torque arm on my 07 it had a lift bar with spring and chain etc. this is just a bar and only moves up and down about 8 inches at most Rayburn told me this was a design in the 80s with a fiberglass rod Sorry about my earlier comments, that was rude of me, but I couldn't make sense of your posts to be any help at all. I'll try and keep it in check, been working a lot of hours. I responded to you PM.
Lets start all over because of the confusion lets start with the rear end on the drivers side the swingarm goes to the rear and the link arm goes forward and has no adjustments up or down the swing arm to the rear has 9 holes to adjust with and also on the driver side also has a straight bar with no adjustments now on the right rear the swing arm goes to the rear the same way as the drivers side the link arm on rr is also carrying the shock as on the drivers side the swing arm goes to the rear as well and has 7 holes to adjust with now the torque arm has a 90 10 shock on top and is approx 6 foot long and goes beside the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit thru a tubular halo which limits how high it can raise the shock on too also has a green spring in front of the shock and the whole set up was preloaded by Rayburn now on top of the rearend I have 2 afco shocks facing forward and as I stated earlier on my 07 they was pointed to the rear now I have described this the best way I know how and I have adjusted with the springs and different holes with the swingarms I have no idea what to do any further I think I'm more lost than before, not being smart but it sounds like a nightmare or an acid trip. Maybe with some pics, I sent you my email. And the swing arms are behind the axel... Wow

[moonshine]

No one has asked the right question. If you had a 07 CJ why in the world would you buy another one?

[rayburn33]

I didn't buy another 07 I was buying and did but a brand new 2012 that I thought was a better car come to find out its just a headache

[zeroracing]

Rather than bash and pile on this guy it is better for the entire forum to try to help. That is what separates this one from the gossip forum.

Unfortunately I have not had a Rayburn, old or new, what you have sounds different, which may not be a bad thing. In this case though it seems to be. A good friend a few hours from me bought one as well, after chasing their tale for months sent it back and had it redone to a standard car. They are a good team with a driver in the HOF, if they struggled with it then a regular guy will probably really struggle.

I would do one of three things.

1. Cut/chop/rebuild it as a four bar with help from guys on here, especially billet birdcage.
2. Send it back and have a standard set up put on it.
3. Sell it off and get a different car all together.

Sorry to hear about your miss fortune, and hopefully you can get some guidance, if I were you I would be making a decision from the three above and going forward.

Good luck

[rayburn33]

Well I want to give a shout out to Abe he called me and after a hour of discussion has put me in the right way my car is a swingarm car but not your typical swingarm after I talked to him I done a little research and found out that there were about only 50 made and I got one it is a swingarm with a mono ball set up and has limited adjustments for whatever reason CJ thought that taking all the adjustments out of this car like the older cars like the 07 I had would be a good idea now I am not saying all 50 cars has the same amount of adjustments but what I am saying mine is limited thank you for all your help and all the post and the few that actually was trying to give me support instead of bashing me I am gonna try my new found knowledge and see how it goes may all you have a great rest of the season

[Dragoon55]

No one has asked the right question. If you had a 07 CJ why in the world would you buy another one? Well thats just mean. Cj use to build quite a car, now I'm not sure about this one, below are the pics he emailed me. I don' t see how this system can work at all. To me it defeats the purpose and use of the original pullbar. JMO

[racin6mod]

quite a few years ago we ran a modified the used a reese hitch bar cut off as a fifth arm this was on a mono leaf car. this looks like a similar deal.

[racinjason29]

Ive got the same car, same setup, I have to use the same heavy springs and still it drives like junk. The pullbar sounds like a driveshaft is coming out of it! It has no forward bite and all mine does is spin. I also have the same problem with pushing on a banked tacky track, if you find something that works let me know. Im taking mine and having the old pullbar mounts welded back in and using the old style pull bar with a lift arm.

[pcope98]

Ive got the same car, same setup, I have to use the same heavy springs and still it drives like junk. The pullbar sounds like a driveshaft is coming out of it! It has no forward bite and all mine does is spin. I also have the same problem with pushing on a banked tacky track, if you find something that works let me know. Im taking mine and having the old pullbar mounts welded back in and using the old style pull bar with a lift arm.
Well boys i have the same pullbar setup, won several races with it ,do your cars have the 4 bar brackets? I did change somethings on my reese bar from what cj had me setup on, i had so much traction that it would pull both front wheels even in the slick, if you wanna know what i did to make it work pm me, i also lost the junkfuel cell he used and went to a wedge cell....

[rayburn33]

Look at the pics above shocks in front of axle and trailing arms to rear from top of birdcage there is pictures above of my car

[jimm1988]

A good group of fans were treated to a great night of racing Saturday night at Brushcreek Motorsports Complex. Saturday was the final Late Model race before the $5,000 to win Late Model race Steven Partin’s Hidden Gem on Wednesday July 17th. All the Late Model guys were working hard to make final adjustments before the UMP Summer Nationals event. The full night of racing also included the second straight week for the Southern Ohio Lightning Mini-Sprints at Brushcreek Motorsports. It was a beautiful evening for racing at “The Creek”. The fans were treated to Crazy Compacts first as they hit the Track. Randy Johnson and Jip Howard started on the front row. Jip had just bought his #82 car the previous week at the drivers meeting and this week was running up front looking for his first win. At the drop of the green Jip tried jump around Randy Johnson. Johnson wasnt giving up easy and he battled back strong. Randy Johnson eventually pulled out to a lead and never looked back. Randy Johnson won his third straight feature followed by Jip Howard, Jesse Mick, Nathan Johnson and Tim Howard.

[racinjason29]

If anyone reading this is getting good bite with these cars and have a good setup, please PM me some info, I would greatly appreciate it

[mattworx]

to all
buy a used pierce and you will be so happy !!we did
alot of your parts will fit and you will get a setup book to help