Need help staying on the bars down the straightaway

[mod321]

What can we do to keep our car on the bars down the straightaway? Hikes up just fine through the corner, but once the car gets going down the straight, it settles down. Raised left upper and lower from standard holes, that helped some. Not breaking tires (WRS D55) loose, car handles fine but having the bars up, driver says it feels like it wants to over rotate. Car gets lazy in the extreme slick and won't get up anywhere.

2011 Warrior
34" 5th coil (was at 36)
250 LR
Both left bars 2 holes up from standard
11c/3r lr behind
Chain set at 14 1/2"

This is a limited late model, 604 crate class. Any help would be much appreciated.

[mod321]

Anybody? You can PM me also....please help!

[7uptruckracer]

How much spring on the 5th arm? Travel on 5th arm? Why not LRF shock?

[phenom08]

increase your lr drop to 15.25" in the slick and change lr spring to a 175-200.

[7uptruckracer]

You need a LRF shock to get off that single, and get your fifth arm settings if it gets up then down or not up at all. let us know

[phenom08]

I don't run a lrf shock on my warrior and have no issues getting on or staying on the bars. In this area about the only cars running a lrf shock are rockets.

[junebug]

For lr to come down rf has to come up...what do u have for rf spring and shock...i thk maybe more rebound would fix the prob

[4bangerhotrod]

I know what your saying about for the LR to come down the RF has to come up, but the LR can definitely drop down off the bars an still have the car on the RF. Even though the two work together, there independent of each other. But it is something to look into. You say the car gets lazy an won't get up anywhere when its slick. Sounds like the car is to stiff on the RF not letting the car roll over an pin the RF. The car should use all avalible shock travel on the RF so that needs to be checked if its using all the travel when its slick you may need to add rebound to hold it over there. If its not using all the travel you're likely to stiff on the spring. It sounds like your RF is atleast part of your problem. I would also look at running a lrf shock also it will hold the car on the bars itself an make it easier on the driver. Also you may want to look at putting a softer LR spring on especially with the hard tires your running

[7uptruckracer]

I agree, I'd run a gas LRF like 6-0 in the slick. It helps the car from setting down (Twin Tube would as well) but with a monotube gas the rod pressure helps the car get it. In the slick you don't really ever need the car to set down. Check for binds, check for 5th arm travel make sure its sufficient and your running enough rebound in it for the slick. Use the Rf travel available to you. Make sure you have enough drop and Jbar rake. I agree on the LR spring to on the harder tires, I'd also index the BC on the LRU bar if your at the top go down a hole and see how you like it. Especially with a crate car that doesn't have a ton of power you really need to start your car off on what would normally be slick track shocks they have a hard time getting up sometimes

[junebug]

I dont thk there is any way physically possible for lr to go down without rf coming up...also u said car comes up on lr just doesn't stay there...that tells me there's prolly not any binds and also tells me that its prolly soft enough on rf...but just needs tied down harder so that it stays where its at after it rolls over
if u said it never rolled or never came up then id thk that was a spring issue ...but I do agree on the lr front shock

[mod321]

Thanks for the replies guys. We are running a 375 rf with a 3c 7-12r adjustable afco twin tube. Been running the rebound at 10. Is that a lot for a crate car? Also, how much gas in the Afco Traction shock would you start with? Normally greasy heats, slick feature. What rate LR spring would be a good starting point, and LR bite? There are no binds in the cars, it just wants to "relax" off the bars down the straights. Paper clip style track.

[junebug]

I would up the rf rebound to 12 and maybe soften rf to 325...the crate deal shouldn't need as stiff of a rf spring as an open motor I wouldn't thk...i thk alot of open motor guys have 350-325
I'd start lr gas shock with 200 lbs and lr spring at 200...a softer lr spring will stay on the bucket longer threw lr lift(have to compress it more to carry the load)and id start bite at 150 and then adjust bite according to what car wants...if tight in loose off add bite...take away if oposite

[4bangerhotrod]

Junebug I'm not sure why your thinking its not physically possible for the LR to drop down without the RF coming up cause it is definitely very possible an we actually had it happen a couple Wks ago when we had shocks go bad the LR looked like a leaf spring car but the RF stayed pinned.
Also i know a Guy who doesn't believe in soft RF setups his car doesn't have over a inch of RF shock travel But the car stays up on the LR bars hard all the way around the track it makes a ton of. Traction but the car wont turn at all ir the track isnt really tacky. So looking at the LR doesn't always tell what the RF is doing.

[7uptruckracer]

Check your 5th arm travel are you sure your not bottoming out?

[junebug]

The frame is solid...it does not bend(minus the little bit of chassis flex u get)...if u have a solid piece of tubing which is what a frame is when u push down one corner the diagonal corner has go to come up...the only possible way for the lr to go down and the rf to stay down is if all four corners are down(which is doubtful)...or if the racecar is bending ATON in the center of the x...which I sure hope isn't happening...it's physics.

[let-r-eat]

So if I block up the left rear on concrete blocks I can't go up on the right front and lower or raise the right front?

[junebug]

If u make lr where its solid on the bars correct rf will only go down if u try to jack up the rf the spring will compress very little if any before it starts to pick up tire...

[junebug]

If u block lr up on concrete blocks yes u can raise the rf but that does not simulate on track conditions...the only way to simulate the on track conditions is tight the lr til the chain is tight and then put a jack under the rf lower control arm...and check and see if u get any travel before the rf tire starts to come off the ground

[JustAddDirt]

depending on track configuration (he says paperclip) crate cars do not have near the same torque to keep the lift arm loaded like a super, therefore they will settle down off the bars, unless they change chassis setup to keep it up. maybe more rebound in 5th coil shock. more compression on LR, more rebound on RF. could also be too soft, or stiff on lift bar spring, or maybe location of lift bar coil over.
numerous things to try, and change. just do one at a time and see what works and what doesn't.
Heck I have seen supers fall down off bars at Florence Speedway, but they still have more than enough straight away speed, just looks like it may make corner entry a little hairy.

[Dragoon55]

The frame is solid...it does not bend(minus the little bit of chassis flex u get)...if u have a solid piece of tubing which is what a frame is when u push down one corner the diagonal corner has go to come up...the only possible way for the lr to go down and the rf to stay down is if all four corners are down(which is doubtful)...or if the racecar is bending ATON in the center of the x...which I sure hope isn't happening...it's physics. Its incomplete physics. For the "X" to come into play the way you are describing you must have a solid pivot point, but you don't. Most cars barely even sit on LF spring and the RR needs a chain to keep it loaded, so its completely possible for the LR to fall without the RF lifting. These cars mostly run around on the RF, the LR and the j-bar. You make it sound like if you dove off in the corner and the RF suspension broke the LR would simply tilt up off the track and be in the air, but it won't because the LR has its own suspension.... Todays cars don't use the old "X" philosophy much, they are a series of crutches and half baked engineering masquerading as "High Tech". Its excessive loading combined with excessive axel misalignment.

[let-r-eat]

half baked engineering masquerading as "High Tech". I like that.Marketing plays a big role in everything involving the $$$.