Sbc oil pumps?

[jsf74]

What are people using for oil pumps now. I building 383 turning 7200 in a stock block. Would like to stay with a cast unit that does not cost a fortune.

[Ferg58]

Milodon 18750 5/8 sump inlet - 18770 3/4 sump inlet

[stockcar5]

melling 10552c

[usafracer]

m55 is all I have ever run and have had ZERO failures due to no oil!

[jsf74]

Why a Standard volume high pressure as opposed it hv lp? Or both high volume high pressure?

[usafracer]

High volume just uses horse power. You will have plenty of pressure with the standard pressure.

[Ferg58]

@usafracer, how much HP loss?

[DANNY]

High volume just uses horse power. You will have plenty of pressure with the standard pressure.

I second the above question. What kind of losses? Is this also with oil restrictors in place or not with a flat tappet application?

[DANNY]

hv is harder to turn costing you hp, also it moves more oil than needed so it builds excess heat in your oil pushing it around more. this is all common sense.

Wonder if that's the issue I had with a motor after I switched to synthetic the pressure would drop when oil got hot (running mix of xp3 and xp6) on the m55hv pump no restrictors. Figured it was bypassing in the pump.

[DANNY]

Lmao!!! Ya it was on that exactly, I had only put on roller rockers on the last couple races I ran that motor. Std it is, any issues running that with a 20w50 type of oil mixture?

[Ferg58]

This was going to be in a motor turning 7200. If you guys want to put a stock pump in yours go ahead. I wouldnt do that in a motor turning that many rpms. M55hv pumps were junk a few yrs ago. the ended up in the broken in the bottom of the pan. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

[Dirtrunner35]

14 years using m55hv pumps, no problems 20_50 oil

[DANNY]

14 years using m55hv pumps, no problems 20_50 oil

I have used the same that's why I'm so like Wtf lol...?!?!?

Guess I'll ask the builders around what they use here as we get a little warmer in the summers then most of the Midwest, heat races at 110* suck.
I know most use 5w50 to 20w50 for oil. Called me crazy when I put 10w30 in lol.

I do understand as clearances get tighter and oil gets better that there is no need for gallons of oil to flow as before, just clairify one vs the other.

Any builders on here wanna chime in would be appreciated, basically I'm running an equivalent to a 365 A mod motor turning 7000-7500.

[rsawyers9]

We run a 355 to 8200 every night with a regular m55 pump pushing Brad Penn. No oil pressure problems whatsoever. Our builder doesn't build anything with a hv pump.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Biggest pump I use is a 10552 and the smallest pump is a DRLV Drag race Low volume pump with great results.

Under race conditions if I have 60 to 70 pounds I have more then enough volume, HV pumps do raise oil temps over a std. volume pump, When the oil is being bypassed it just goes around and around in the pump till it can be used its creating heat and it does whipped the oil up as well.

HV pumps do cost HP.

[CNC BLOCKS]

The oil would not be bypassed if you open up the connecting rod side clearance like I mentioned earlier. If you call melling and tell them what you are doing with your engine they will recommend the pump you need if you call them talk to Renee not George I am betting if ur goin to run over 6500 they will want you to run HV in a circle track app. Also if you are running an HV pump and the bypass is set at 70 psi like the M55HV is and you are only running 65 psi you are not bypassing much oil which is a perfect condition

WTF. Bearing clearance regulates the oil that flows between the rods not side clearance.

I have built some piston guided rod engines that have .110 side clearance and have used a M55A pump and no issues.

I have built some Honda rod 283 main circle track engines and HV pump would not work on those engines and they turn 7500 with zero problem's!!!

I have never needed HV pumps with my builds but I guess you have to know what your doing !!!!

[CNC BLOCKS]

To a certain extent rod side clearance does regulate oil flow if you don't think so put an engine together with .005 side clearance and let me know how that works cause it won't!!! Clearance does regulate the flow but it goes hand in hand with side clearance. I know for a fact on a 351w ford if you go from .015 side clearance to .030 you will lose 40 degrees oil temp because the oil can flow better without changing the bearing clearance. I have built 302 fords that run better than 8000 with this theory plus out of all of the engines to come through my shop not one single bearing has been damaged or spun!! I sir do know what I am doing regardless what you believe there is more than one way to build an engine that's what makes good races!!

What idiot would ever put together a racing engine with .005 side clearance !!!!! I didn't see an difference in oil temp with a .110 side clearance.

I am not a believer in what your trying to push!!

[CNC BLOCKS]

If you wouldn't build a race engine with .005 side clearance than it must play a role in oil flow huh? Wouldn't let enough oil out through the rods now would it? So it does make a difference this is just an extreme. Volume plays more of a role than pressure since pressure is resistance to flow rather than how much flow you have I have run small block ford engines with only 50 psi a high volume pump and 10w30 oil and melling told me I had the perfect condition lots of volume without any oil bypassing pump was turned all the way up I never had a failure with the either it takes volume to cool the bearings not so much as pressure. You could build an engine with tight clearances and high pressure do to the lack of clearance but it wouldn't have enough oil flow to cool the bearings and journals

Well I see a lot of 602 circle track crate engines and I have seen some with a s little as .010 side clearance engines ran fine oil temps around 220 with no cooler and during a rebuild I open the side clearance up to at least .018 and so far oil temps don't seem to run cooler!!!

I have been building circle track engines for many years now and have seen side clearance from .015 to .045 and no big difference in oil temps.

Bill Hendrens always said the same thing I have said its the bearing clearance that regulates the flow of oil between the rods not side clearance. So far performance rods for GM builds are .940 and will give you appox .016 side clearance..

[jsf74]

i think im gonna run stock car drivers new setup:)

[CNC BLOCKS]

You build them your way and I will build them mine I have also been building race engines for awhile and have the best reputation in my area for reliability in building Chevys Fords and Chryslers. We will just have to agree to disagree!!

Are you a true engine builder where you do your own machine work or just an assembler??

Scroll down my Face Book page just comparing apples to apples here to see if we are on the same page or not.

https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast

[Rodz]

I like the 10552 pump with Brad Penn 10-30 in my builds and that's how it's run on the dyno. Most of my customers aren't comfortable with the 10-30 and when they change it they use 20-50. It's hard to break old habits.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I am a true engine builder in Nebraska. We work on everything from diesels to old tractors even back to model a and t engines plus race and high performance street engines. We don't have the CNC equipment as people out here don't want to drop that kind of cash but that doesn't mean we can't do good machine work and build good runnin engines.

Thanks

What shop do you own or are you just an employee?

[stockcar5]

Check out www.speedtalk.com. cncblocks on there crys all the time with people that dont agree with him. if you do disagree then he slams you for not having cnc equipment, a machine shop or just being an "assembler" LOL.

is it really that hard to push a button on a cnc machine??? old bastard carl can do it anyone can!

[CNC BLOCKS]

Check out www.speedtalk.com. cncblocks on there crys all the time with people that dont agree with him. if you do disagree then he slams you for not having cnc equipment, a machine shop or just being an "assembler" LOL.

is it really that hard to push a button on a cnc machine??? old bastard carl can do it anyone can!

Your always crying about me, Send me your address and I will send you a crying towel.

You don't much about programming and pushing buttons on a CNC machine I can tell your a wannabeeeee for sure. LMAO

I am not the one crying here you are LOL. Just comparing apples to apples here that all.

Reread my posts and stop crying.

Comparing apples to apples here what is your claim to fame and don't cry about the question I asked you LMAO!!!!

[stockcar5]

Your always crying about me, Send me your address and I will send you a crying towel.

You don't much about programming and pushing buttons on a CNC machine I can tell your a wannabeeeee for sure. LMAO

I am not the one crying here you are LOL. Just comparing apples to apples here that all.

Reread my posts and stop crying.

Comparing apples to apples here what is your claim to fame and don't cry about the question I asked you LMAO!!!!

so you need a cnc machine to select an oil pump? thats "apples to apples" LOL!

For anybody that needs more info about carl check out his website him and his world blocks friend built together.

http://www.cncblockne.com

[DANNY]

. . . I know I don't want to be on the bad side of stockcar5.

LMAO :) Second that.

[CNC BLOCKS]

so you need a cnc machine to select an oil pump? thats "apples to apples" LOL!

For anybody that needs more info about carl check out his website him and his world blocks friend built together.

http://www.cncblockne.com

Its only a blog not a website not a lot of truth there, We will see how John makes out in court LOL.

Again Comparing apples to apples here what is your claim to fame and don't cry about the question I asked you LMAO!!!!

Not scared of stockcar5 as he seems to be a blow hard as he can't answer a question that I asked but he can sure cry a lot LMAO.

[Rodz]

Your always crying about me, Send me your address and I will send you a crying towel.

You don't much about programming and pushing buttons on a CNC machine I can tell your a wannabeeeee for sure. LMAO

I am not the one crying here you are LOL. Just comparing apples to apples here that all.

Reread my posts and stop crying.

Comparing apples to apples here what is your claim to fame and don't cry about the question I asked you LMAO!!!!

I'd like some towels. Can I get them monogramed?

[powerslide]

Are they CNC'd towels?

[powerslide]

All jokes aside like or hate carl he answers alof of dart questions on these websites

[stockcar5]

Again Comparing apples to apples here what is your claim to fame and don't cry about the question I asked you LMAO!!!!

Not scared of stockcar5 as he seems to be a blow hard as he can't answer a question that I asked but he can sure cry a lot LMAO.

i never saw where you asked me a question. my bad. i have no claim to fame. i dont own a cnc machine. i did machine a set of brake rotors today. does that make me a machinist now??? LOL!!

let us know how that court thing ends up. you dont have to worry about what you post here. it wont get locked like the posts you reply to on speedtalk!!

[stockcar5]

All jokes aside like or hate carl he answers alof of dart questions on these websites

i'll agree with you there. his cnc machine does a nice job. he's just a douche.

[Ferg58]

jsf74 was asking in general what pump to use. You guys turned this into a pi$$en match. Give your advice and get on down the road.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I have used M55HV in 90 percent of my builds CNC blocks turned it into a pissing match just cause he don't use high volume for the run of the mill racer put the HV in and make sure your pan has at least 7qt capacity so you don't pump it dry and pickup 1/4 to 3/8 off the bottom of the pan and you won't have any issues.


Why do you need 7 quarts that are guys at the local circle track that only can run a stock pan and run HV pumps and no issues for those guys, Suck the pan dry HMMMM where are you going to put 4 or 5 quarts of oil to suck the pan dry. That has been proven many times as myth just check with Mellings as There use to be an announcement on there website in reference to you guys making up stories.

[usafracer]

Wow that esclated quick!!


As for the HP no clue how much. Dyno time to me has never been cheap enough to swap oil pumps. That being said nothing in life is free. You pump more oil it takes HP to do it. Its sience.

[CNC BLOCKS]

i never saw where you asked me a question. my bad. i have no claim to fame. i dont own a cnc machine. i did machine a set of brake rotors today. does that make me a machinist now??? LOL!!

let us know how that court thing ends up. you dont have to worry about what you post here. it wont get locked like the posts you reply to on speedtalk!!

Go to speedtalk and see my accomplishments here are a few about the Chinese Dart look alike block.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17747&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18750

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18095&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR MAJOR ACCOMPLISMENTS??????????????????????????????????

You know I have a lot of followers I wish I could post the 3 PM's I got about you LOL. My claim to fame is machining blocks and building engines!!! What do you do for a living???

My engines have won many championships set national and world records!!! Do have any world records????

I ship machined blocks all over the world and have many engine builders and machine shops I deal with everyday.

What is your claim to fame???

You try to be a know-ALL-jest and blow hard just my opinion and a few other see it that way as well LOL.

Again what is your claim to fame !!!!!!

[stockcar5]

Go to speedtalk and see my accomplishments here are a few about the Chinese Dart look alike block.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17747&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18750

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18095&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR MAJOR ACCOMPLISMENTS??????????????????????????????????

You know I have a lot of followers I wish I could post the 3 PM's I got about you LOL. My claim to fame is machining blocks and building engines!!! What do you do for a living???

My engines have won many championships set national and world records!!! Do have any world records????

I ship machined blocks all over the world and have many engine builders and machine shops I deal with everyday.

What is your claim to fame???

You try to be a know-ALL-jest and blow hard just my opinion and a few other see it that way as well LOL.

Again what is your claim to fame !!!!!!

like i said a few posts above. i have no claim to fame. nobody has made a fake website about me. im not that famous...LOL!

[CNC BLOCKS]

like i said a few posts above. i have no claim to fame. nobody has made a fake website about me. im not that famous...LOL!

You must be a Wall mart greeter LOL.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Why would you not run a 7qt pan what r u trying to prove? Go ahead run 5qts maybe someday my engines will meet yours on the track and we will see who is better sir. I am just trying to answer the guys question but since you don't agree he has not been able to get a good answer.

Reread my post the track only allows a stock pan so why would you want to get thrown out for being illegal ????

[CNC BLOCKS]

Why would you not run a 7qt pan what r u trying to prove? Go ahead run 5qts maybe someday my engines will meet yours on the track and we will see who is better sir. I am just trying to answer the guys question but since you don't agree he has not been able to get a good answer.

Reread my post the track only allows a stock pan so why would you want to get thrown out for being illegal ????

I have sure won a lot of championships over the years and stilling winning. What is your claim to fame and what shop do you own where you build engines??? Bring it on!!

Go over my F/B page
https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast

[CNC BLOCKS]

You are literally to much of a jack*** to deal with if you are as good as you claim how come Roush/Yates, Hendricks or Tony Stewart Racing hasn't picked you up? Big deal you can CNC a block can you do anything else? I can do any operation in my shop within .0002" that includes grinding crankshaft, line boring blocks , sizing connecting rods, honing cylinders fitting guides and valve jobs. But according to you, you are the only one in the whole world who can build a good engine just because you can CNC. Well let me tell you something a good machinist is innovative and can come up with many different ideas and will figure out what is best. Also at times he will admit that he does not know everything and is not afraid to pick the phone up and call classy engine builder unlike yourself. A true machinist can do good work without a computer. Since you have a CNC why don't you build your own (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) oil pump so then the whole nation will know who you are cuz I haven't heard of you until this forum. I am finished with you sir, I apologize to the individual that wanted a question answered as this was the true purpose of this forum!!!!

Let see I did spend some time at DEI years ago as they wanted me to go to work for them, I spent quite a bit of time in the shop going over what was going on,

Let see I have shipped 3 blocks to Hendricks Motorsports for engine builders that work there that build engines on the side.

Again go over my Face Book page, There are a lot of pics of some of what I do for a living. Just scroll down https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast

I can build a good engine no doubt and being able to do the work in a CNC machine give me an advantage over those who don't have a CNC machine.

Lets see If Hendrick's HAAS CNC machines are good enough for them then MY HAAS CNC machine should be good enough for me.

You only work to .0002 HMMMMM

So what machine shop do you own?? ANY PICS of what you do or are bull shyting everyone here LOL.

This is 2013 CNC machining is the way to go believe me again its 2013

What do you machine with and hone with??? Like to see some pics!!!!!

Like I said I have my engines have set national records and world records and what have you done?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

You should use profanity on this site !!!! Your showing how much of a moron you are LMAO.

[dereksehi]

Stock car driver I have cars that run Boone County Raceway, US30 and Riviera Raceway in Norfolk which is where I run a Northern Sportmod weekly always have several that go to spring and fall nationals and a few that make the pull to Boone for the SuperNats. I also have engines turning circles in Utah,Louisiana and Missourri. I have watched you run in Albion and put on a good show should you be there some night I am running I will come introduce myself.

[dereksehi]

The track is goin to be under new management this year so hopefully it will be even better!!

[let-r-eat]

Why would a stock pan engine with a 400hp build ever need anymore than what came stock?

[CNC BLOCKS]

You are literally to much of a jack*** to deal with if you are as good as you claim how come Roush/Yates, Hendricks or Tony Stewart Racing hasn't picked you up? Big deal you can CNC a block can you do anything else? I can do any operation in my shop within .0002" that includes grinding crankshaft, line boring blocks , sizing connecting rods, honing cylinders fitting guides and valve jobs. But according to you, you are the only one in the whole world who can build a good engine just because you can CNC. Well let me tell you something a good machinist is innovative and can come up with many different ideas and will figure out what is best. Also at times he will admit that he does not know everything and is not afraid to pick the phone up and call classy engine builder unlike yourself. A true machinist can do good work without a computer. Since you have a CNC why don't you build your own (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) oil pump so then the whole nation will know who you are cuz I haven't heard of you until this forum. I am finished with you sir, I apologize to the individual that wanted a question answered as this was the true purpose of this forum!!!!

I got an email last nite from some one who saw this post and we both have a few questions for you as this guy that sent me the email I am sure uses a CNC machine as well.

You just told me how good your lets find out!!!! But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM

First of all how do you bore your cylinders to blue print??? Please don't tell me your just throwing a boring bar on the decks and boring the cylinders and calling that blue print. Please post pics of your operation??? But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM

How are you enlarging your lifter bores?? Please don't tell me your using fixturing!!! Its 2013 now !! But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM

Here is a link on a guy that took his block I had machined and it ran fine till he thought he was working magic with his BHJ fixture and cost this guy a lot of money and now its not running the times it was before. I would say the seat timing events are not the same now compared to what I did and being a roller cam lifter bore placement is critical. Please post some pics???? But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594824

What are you using to blue pint bore the cam tunnels??? Please don't tell me you having nothing to blue print with but you say you work with is .0002 HMMMMMM

Even chamfering the top of the cylinders every block I did the chamfer is exactly the same, Please don't tell me your chamfering the top of the cylinders by hand!!!! But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM

Here is a little of what I do for blue printing a block. Could you post pics of what you do as you told me how good you are remember (But you say you work with in .0002 HMMMMMM)

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93124

[CNC BLOCKS]

To the OP if you can use a std volume pump and maintain 60 pounds of oil pressure while racing you have more then enough oil pump, An HV pump in the same application your just eating up HP and heating the oil up.

[stockcar5]

I just got an e-mail from a guy who saw this post. He says carl is NOT acutally a machinist. Just a cnc button pusher!! LOL HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

[CNC BLOCKS]

I just got an e-mail from a guy who saw this post. He says carl is NOT acutally a machinist. Just a cnc button pusher!! LOL HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Again I have only been CNC machining blocks for 13 years now and have been building engines since 1977 as that when Hinkson Automotive started when I was 17 years old.

You sound like Jesup making up stories but again go to my Face Book and tell me I am not a machinist and I have a pretty good rep out there as I deal with a lot of shops and engine builders LOL.

https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast

Lets see what do have to machine with OHHH

A 4 axis HAAS CNC machining center

2 Line hone tables one at each shop

2 Sunnen rod hones one at each shop

2 crank balancers one is a Stewart Warner other is newer Hines

1 cam tunnel blue printing fixture

2 line boring set ups

1 Sunnen 616 Cylinder King hone and many different kinds of Torque plates

1 complete head shop

2 Bridgeports

3 lathes

welding equipment

AND MORE

MR. WALMART GREETER WHAT DO HAVE FOR EQUIPMENT AND WHATS YOUR CLAIM TO FAME!!!

All you do is run skimmer and make no sense!!!! LMAO

[stewie]

Dart recommends regular volume on their blocks since they are a main priority oiling system. I use this guidline for Dart and HV for factory blocks. Don't beat me up if you disagree, just the method of my madness (racing is a madness, right)?

[merc123]

M55HV and 20-50 "diesel" oil. Engine builder put it in and said run it, so I run it.

[CNC BLOCKS]

M55HV and 20-50 "diesel" oil. Engine builder put it in and said run it, so I run it.

20-50 "diesel" oil Never heard of that oil for diesels! Who makes that??

[Dirtrunner35]

Can someone tell me how much HP a HV pump uses over a stock pump

[keeks]

20-50 "diesel" oil Never heard of that oil for diesels! Who makes that??

Are you kidding?

Uhhhhhh, Shell, Mobil, Amsoil, Castrol.....................................

[keeks]

No need to be rude. Diesel oil isn't only 15/40. There is everything from 5/40-20/50

http://www.mobil.com/Egypt-English/Lubes/PDS/GLEGENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_Super_20W-50.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-20w-50-synthetic-premium-protection-motor-oil/?page=%2fstorefront%2faro.aspx

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9009756&contentId=7018632

[keeks]

I used google btw. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. In the winter here in northern Canada I use 0w40 in some our equipment.

[keeks]

You were ignorant and said it didn't exist. Why be ignorant? It's not that I'm being like dynogirl.

[keeks]

Thanks! Cheers. Merry Christmas.

[LateModel B23]

Was it ever determined what the best oil pump might happen to be???

[CNC BLOCKS]

Was it ever determined what the best oil pump might happen to be???

Take your pick as there are a lot of different views on this subject.

[merc123]

20-50 "diesel" oil Never heard of that oil for diesels! Who makes that??


It's next to the blinker fluid and muffler bearings. When you get your head out of your rear maybe you should use some of that extra free time to look up API oil certification marks.

Here ya go, I'll save your the trouble:


4. Multiple Performance Lvels
Oils designed for diesel engine service might also meet gasoline engine service. For these oils the designation is "C" category first followed by the "S" category. "C" category oils have been formulated primarily for diesel engines and may not provide all of the performance requirements consisten with vehicle manufacturers' recommendations for gasoline fueled engines.

Now run along and play with your blocks child and let real men carry on a conversation.

[CNC BLOCKS]

It's next to the blinker fluid and muffler bearings. When you get your head out of your rear maybe you should use some of that extra free time to look up API oil certification marks.

Here ya go, I'll save your the trouble:



Now run along and play with your blocks child and let real men carry on a conversation.

Just what I need some idiot telling me about oil as some one all ready posted the links. Pull your head out of your a$$ and read before you post. LOL

[Lizardracing]

Geez CNC why do you have to be such an A hole? Is that a way of life or do you have to work hard at at?

[merc123]

Just what I need some idiot telling me about oil as some one all ready posted the links. Pull your head out of your a$$ and read before you post. LOL

Kettle...meet pot. Maybe you should read about oils before posting that you've never heard of diesel oils. Then we could have completely averted making you out to be the idiot.

[usafracer]

You guys are all acting like a bunch of Fu@#ing 2 year olds. Grow the F&*k up and get a life!

[avenger1]

That is what EVERY single post turns into, a pissing match. A big LIKE to usafracer, your last post was right on!!!!!!

[CNC BLOCKS]

Kettle...meet pot. Maybe you should read about oils before posting that you've never heard of diesel oils. Then we could have completely averted making you out to be the idiot.

Why would any one use diesel oil in a racing engine???

[usafracer]

And you keep going!! If I knew nothing about your business but what I read in this thread I wouldn't send you a (or the other machine shop guy) a f#$king lawn mower. You two piss around like an old married couple.

[CNC BLOCKS]

And you keep going!! If I knew noting about your business but what I read in this thread I wouldn't send you a (or the other machine shop guy) a f#$king lawn mower. You two piss around like an old married couple.

Believe it or not I am pretty busy and I can say both shops, house, trucking business and properties are all paid for so I done very will.

WTF is NOTING ?????????????????? I guess went to school and you didn't LOL.

Scroll down my F/B page I do alright.
https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast

[usafracer]

Thank you for pointing out my grammatical error. I fixed it for you.

[MM90]

Why would any one use diesel oil in a racing engine???

Well back before racing oils were abundant and plentiful diesel oils were better than off the shelf gas engine oils because they had more properties like zinc and moly that gas engine oils don't because of government epa regulations.

[joeltjen]

Well back before racing oils were abundant and plentiful diesel oils were better than off the shelf gas engine oils because they had more properties like zinc and moly that gas engine oils don't because of government epa regulations.

yes... up until a few years ago shell rotella-t 15w-40 was a very good flat tappet engine racing oil had a very high zinc content and was one of the last" off the shelf" oils with a high zinc content. the only thing I didn't like about the shell oils is that when they broke down it was instant. between 5 and 6000 miles our construction trucks would loose 10 to 15 psi on the oil just like that. change oil and back to 60 to 65 psi. we would send in oil samples and it wasn't due to fuel dilution, just lost viscocity.

[CNC BLOCKS]

yes... up until a few years ago shell rotella-t 15w-40 was a very good flat tappet engine racing oil had a very high zinc content and was one of the last" off the shelf" oils with a high zinc content. the only thing I didn't like about the shell oils is that when they broke down it was instant. between 5 and 6000 miles our construction trucks would loose 10 to 15 psi on the oil just like that. change oil and back to 60 to 65 psi. we would send in oil samples and it wasn't due to fuel dilution, just lost viscocity.

When Rotella lowered the zinc I switched over to the CENPECO 15/40 S-3 oil which has 1582 PPM of zinc so far my Peterbilt has been very happy.

[Dirtrunner35]

Why don't you go do the back to back and tell us?

Ive done a back to back on a chassis dyno with two oils and gained some rwhp. Dynogirl says he can get ya 25 hp with his special proprietary oil filter!

So what HP gain did you get ? Have you ever tried it with different pumps?

[jsf74]

If anyone cares I just got a m55hv because I knew it would work. Not real sure why this thread turned into this. People need to argue less and wrench more. Back to the shop I go.

[Ferg58]

There have been many of those work for racers. Hope it does well for you. Next time maybe these guys will not turn such a simple question into a pi$$en match. Happy Racing

[stockcar5]

I've heard of a guy that does reduced volume pumps 20% less than standard volume. he claims back to back 6hp gain. so you could guess that going from standard volume to +20% would cost about the same amount.

[Dirtrunner35]

I've heard of a guy that does reduced volume pumps 20% less than standard volume. he claims back to back 6hp gain. so you could guess that going from standard volume to +20% would cost about the same amount.

Thanks , I was just wondering, I think someone could improve on other places for more speed then a different pump. And unless someone is bumper to bumper with someone every race a standard pump is not going to help.

[DANNY]

Amen to that, is 6 hp really worth a new crank and other parts or whole new motor?

I can see a std pump on a block with priority to the mains but whoa on anything else...

[CNC BLOCKS]

Amen to that, is 6 hp really worth a new crank and other parts or whole new motor?

I can see a std pump on a block with priority to the mains but whoa on anything else...

I Have run the DRLV (Drag Race Low Volume pump) for years nor with zero problems 60 To 65 pounds racing what more could you ask for. One guy I build for 7 championships and no problems. This was a 010 block.

What parts should have failed?? And why??

[LateModel B23]

One guy I build for 7 championships

Who?

[Ferg58]

CNC I hate to jump on this thread with this but (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word), go brag somewhere else. this guy has already made a purchase and is happy. MOVE ON

[CNC BLOCKS]

One guy I build for 7 championships

Who?

Go to my F/B page it should be there 7 championships!!! The engine 11 years LOL

[CNC BLOCKS]

CNC I hate to jump on this thread with this but (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word), go brag somewhere else. this guy has already made a purchase and is happy. MOVE ON

I have a lot of championships under belt go to my F/B page a look around and go cry some where else LOL What a cry BABY.

https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast/photos?collection_token=100005095538247%3A23052727 32%3A5&next_cursor=MDpub3Rfc3RydWN0dXJlZDoyMzUyNTcyOTk5OD c0NTM%3D

How many Championship engines have you built if any????????????????????

[CNC BLOCKS]

CNC I hate to jump on this thread with this but (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word), go brag somewhere else. this guy has already made a purchase and is happy. MOVE ON

I have a lot of championships under belt go to my F/B page a look around and go cry some where else LOL What a cry BABY.

https://www.facebook.com/cncblocks.northeast/photos?collection_token=100005095538247%3A23052727 32%3A5&next_cursor=MDpub3Rfc3RydWN0dXJlZDoyMzUyNTcyOTk5OD c0NTM%3D

How many Championship engines have you built if any????????????????????

By the way I have an engine that has set national and World records and how bout YOU!!!

[Ferg58]

Thats my point, I could give two $hits what you have done. I said go BRAG somewhere else. Nothing was said about crying. I seems as though you are the only one crying . You are not making any friends here. MOVE ON

[stockcar5]

WOW 7 championships in your 75 years of engine machining...great job!! LOL

[CNC BLOCKS]

WOW 7 championships in your 75 years of engine machining...great job!! LOL

That's just one customer only 38 years building engines!!

How many have you had !!

[CNC BLOCKS]

Thats my point, I could give two $hits what you have done. I said go BRAG somewhere else. Nothing was said about crying. I seems as though you are the only one crying . You are not making any friends here. MOVE ON

Why are you always crying about my posts what a baby!!! You don't like what I post don't read it and you won't have nothing to cry about, GET MY POINT

I must have a few friends here as there were a few that ordered Dart blocks before the dead line HMMMMMMM.

[ford396]

I realize that a purchase has already been made and that each situation is different. However; I have to agree with CNC here. I want the smallest volume of pump that I can get to do the job in my engines. Set the clearances correctly and minimize oil being pumped. Every little bit of conserved power hopefully ends up at the tires. If I can save a few H.P. through minimizing my oil pump, then why not? My current engine went though two different Peterson pumps before I was able to reduce volume enough for my liking.

Bob

[stockcar5]

I've had the same as you..7 championships...in the last 2 years...LOL! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Keep on crying crazy carl!!

[Ferg58]

I am amazed that such a Big Time Builder has such a grade school mind. I never said a thing about your post until a few ago. So dont be so puffy chest that I have been crying about your post. You must have little man syndrome. Please dont read this because it may just dent your ego. You are not worth another post. Build away O Mighty One

[CNC BLOCKS]

I've had the same as you..7 championships...in the last 2 years...LOL! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Keep on crying crazy carl!!

Only 2 championships this year Had a lot of feature winners though !! How many did you have??

[CNC BLOCKS]

I am amazed that such a Big Time Builder has such a grade school mind. I never said a thing about your post until a few ago. So dont be so puffy chest that I have been crying about your post. You must have little man syndrome. Please dont read this because it may just dent your ego. You are not worth another post. Build away O Mighty One

There you go crying and babbling again, Crying about championship engines I have built what a baby do you have anything else to do????

Send me your address and I will send you a crying towel LMAO

[CNC BLOCKS]

I realize that a purchase has already been made and that each situation is different. However; I have to agree with CNC here. I want the smallest volume of pump that I can get to do the job in my engines. Set the clearances correctly and minimize oil being pumped. Every little bit of conserved power hopefully ends up at the tires. If I can save a few H.P. through minimizing my oil pump, then why not? My current engine went though two different Peterson pumps before I was able to reduce volume enough for my liking.

Bob


At least you are using some logic here what good would an HV pump do absolutely accept rob power and increase oil temp also whipping the oil up in the pump because it can not be used is probably not good for the bearings.

Then you have this quote with no explanation.


Amen to that, is 6 hp really worth a new crank and other parts or whole new motor?

I can see a std pump on a block with priority to the mains but whoa on anything else...

[stockcar5]

30 feature wins in those same 2 years.

[CNC BLOCKS]

30 feature wins in those same 2 years.


More then that!!!

[dirtplay18]

Would running a 3qt accumulator make a difference on the pump selection??

[Emjay]

Hey CNC, EMJAY here. I must say, StockCar5 has proven me wrong. I apologize. If I would have takentime to think, I would have known that a 12 year old would not have had time to get that mouthyand retarded.Your long time friend and best buddy!!!EMJAY

[CNC BLOCKS]

Hey CNC, EMJAY here. I must say, StockCar5 has proven me wrong. I apologize. If I would have takentime to think, I would have known that a 12 year old would not have had time to get that mouthyand retarded.Your long time friend and best buddy!!!EMJAY


Back at ya LOL

[DANNY]

LMAO.

Here's an answer for anyone that cares...

I will not drag this person into his but here's why I will be running the H V pump

"What you have is a bunch of people talking about something they know nothing about.In a wetsump you always want to run the m55hv.Pressure robs hp.Oil volume cools your bearings.Neither one causes oil to be whipped up.The better design of the pan the less whipping of the oil will occur.Pressure or volume has nothing to do with it.It is simply a function of a wet sump engine."

Take it or leave it... Next we gonna hear that a "stock" water pump is better. :)

[perfconn]

X 1,000,000

[stockcar5]

I see Carl brought in the peanut gallery for reinforcements..LOL! Nice to hear from you again Emjay..its been years!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Dirts4Racing]

CNC wasnt patted on the back enough as a child. OMG Talk about an ego. If you are that good, why do you spend time on here messing with us less fortunate in the brain dept? Put you building blocks away and go to bed, cus its past your bedtime. I will take one of your towels. I live on the corner of Kiss and My A$$

[CNC BLOCKS]

CNC wasnt patted on the back enough as a child. OMG Talk about an ego. If you are that good, why do you spend time on here messing with us less fortunate in the brain dept? Put you building blocks away and go to bed, cus its past your bedtime. I will take one of your towels. I live on the corner of Kiss and My A$$

I make good money with block building business LOL.

I have a pretty good record when it comes to building engines and how about how many engines do you build????

Just probably play in a very small sand box!!!

I done pretty good both shops paid for trucking business is paid for and my house and properties are all paid for LOL I guess I have done alright.

[CNC BLOCKS]

LMAO.

Here's an answer for anyone that cares...

I will not drag this person into his but here's why I will be running the H V pump

"What you have is a bunch of people talking about something they know nothing about.In a wetsump you always want to run the m55hv.Pressure robs hp.Oil volume cools your bearings.Neither one causes oil to be whipped up.The better design of the pan the less whipping of the oil will occur.Pressure or volume has nothing to do with it.It is simply a function of a wet sump engine."

Take it or leave it... Next we gonna hear that a "stock" water pump is better. :)

When using a HV pump and the oil is not being used and its bypassing in the pump it goes no where the oil does get whipped up in the pump. Think about.

I do quite a few Honda rod 283 main engines try running an HV pump with one of those engines and tell me how that works???????

[perfconn]

It works fine.All my engines are drysump and I use the wide body pressure section in all of them.More volume than the m55hv has and never any problems even with honda journals and 283 mains

[CNC BLOCKS]

It works fine.All my engines are drysump and I use the wide body pressure section in all of them.More volume than the m55hv has and never any problems even with honda journals and 283 mains

You don't run any oil coolers??? Or valve cover sprayers??

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/CNCBLOCKS/BIGTRUCK003.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/CNCBLOCKS/media/BIGTRUCK003.jpg.html)

[Dirts4Racing]

Omg cnc, i i i i i i me me me me me i i i me me me me. Your head must be super large with such an ego. No one likes a bragger. By the way i dont build motors i race with them and how many dirt track champioinships do you have? Apples and oranges. You sir and i say " sir" loosely you need to go back to your shop and let us less educated discuss these things. You head must be bursting with knowledge. I hope to get my towel sometime this week.

[oldgold]

my question is of a pure stock engine failure had .002 rods and.0025 on mains and i think i pumped all of the oil to the top .i spun bearings and was using a big block pump. would i have been better off to use a std stock pump with these clearances?remember pure stock stock everything and 410 lift cam no domes or forged allowed thanks

[CNC BLOCKS]

Omg cnc, i i i i i i me me me me me i i i me me me me. Your head must be super large with such an ego. No one likes a bragger. By the way i dont build motors i race with them and how many dirt track champioinships do you have? Apples and oranges. You sir and i say " sir" loosely you need to go back to your shop and let us less educated discuss these things. You head must be bursting with knowledge. I hope to get my towel sometime this week.

Before the local track went to asphalt It was clay track and I did have championship engines back them !! Any other questions???

been doing this for many years now I can say been there done that. I deal with engine builders and other machine shops all over.

[perfconn]

Oldgold,
You don't need a bb chevy oilpump in a sb chevy.While that is probably what caused your problem it is easy to not have it happen again.You can never have too much oilpump,the problem is you have to get the oil back to the oilpan.The rear oil drainback hole has to be enlarged quite a bit.Proper block preparation is the secret.

[ford396]

Perfconn: I would caution oldgold or anyone else running in a purestock type of applicaton that too big of an oil pump places a lot of stress on distributor and camshaft gear. Very possible to get premature wear due to this as well as inconsistent ignition timing.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will respect it, but I disagree with you that you can have too large of an oil pump.

Bob

[perfconn]

Bob,
I agree with you 100%.Thats the reason I told him a bb chevy pump was not necessary and was probably what caused his bearing problems.You can never get rid of spark scatter in a wetsump engine unless you use a crank trigger.His problem could also have been caused by a bad oilpan design.Many years ago back in my super stock drag racing days,I had a wetsump engine losing oil pressure at the end of the track when I hit the brakes.I solved the problem by simply puting a corvette oilpan on that had the proper trapdoors.

[Dirts4Racing]

Before the local track went to asphalt It was clay track and I did have championship engines back them !! Any other questions???

been doing this for many years now I can say been there done that. I deal with engine builders and other machine shops all over.

OK you build motors. I get that. You think you are the only one that does? My question was how many Championships do you have DRIVING. I would assume NONE. You ask how many motors people have built, like that is the only thing that goes into a race car. If everyone was a big engine builder you would be out of business. Take note how there are two guys that may not agree on here but have the ability to agree to disagree. You may have the last word as always.

[CNC BLOCKS]

OK you build motors. I get that. You think you are the only one that does? My question was how many Championships do you have DRIVING. I would assume NONE. You ask how many motors people have built, like that is the only thing that goes into a race car. If everyone was a big engine builder you would be out of business. Take note how there are two guys that may not agree on here but have the ability to agree to disagree. You may have the last word as always.

No I don't drive, I am not the only engine builder out there that's for sure I deal with a lot of good engine builder all over the world.

I do have an impeccable record for engines I have built for my customers, World records??? I am very well known out there as my shop is set up to blue print blue print blocks period !!! Good honing equipment.

Not every engines builder has a shop like mine as I have 2 shops though with top of the line equipment and it has paid off!!!

I do have good bragging rights and have seen what works and what does not work when it comes to building engines.

Not many shops out there are set up to Blue Print cam tunnels ETC. Most shops just bore cylinders to where the cylinders are located cause they have no way to blue print bore them. Machining lifter bores with fixtures bolting 5 pieces together in not very accurate ETC.

[Rodz]

Carl I have no reason to doubt your abilities, but you really need to put a sock in it.

[CNC BLOCKS]

Carl I have no reason to doubt your abilities, but you really need to put a sock in it.

Why would any body doubt my abilities?? I can back up what I say. I have a lot of followers believe me, At my shops I do what a lot of other shops can't do no big deal so when I posts pics ETC its not bragging its what I offer at my shops and I am proud of what I do. My prices are hard to beat!!!

I am not a bolt on boy that buys used parts and assembles them and being an engines assembler VS and engines builder who machines everything is house there is a big difference!!!

If you don't like what I post don't be a baby put me on your ignore list and you wont have nothing to cry about!!!

[Dirts4Racing]

I dont know how I missed this but thanks stockcar5. Check this out and it is all you need to know. http://www.cncblockne.com/

[CNC BLOCKS]

I dont know how I missed this but thanks stockcar5. Check this out and it is all you need to know. http://www.cncblockne.com/

There is a reason John Supino has been thrown of about every website out there LOL. Cause he worked for World and I have had to many issues with World blocks so he wrote a blog as you can see he does not get along with any one the sells Dart in this thread he is JOHN@BMP
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30455&p=360548#p360548

I should have my website site done in a few days as I will post so you can say I'm bragging LOL.

[oldgold]

[QUOTE=ford396;1759000]Perfconn: I would caution oldgold or anyone else running in a purestock type of applicaton that too big of an oil pump places a lot of stress on distributor and camshaft gear. Very possible to get premature wear due to this as well as inconsistent ignition timing.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will respect it, but I disagree with you that you can have too large of an oil pump.

Bob[/QUOTE i have always thought that pressure and volumn were what you needed to prevent spun bearings and have never been happy with 35-45 lbs at racing rpms and oil lite on with cautions and i have always heard big block pumps have a steadier oil pressure due to 12 teeth on the gear. please enlighten me. our max rpms are 6200 on hydraulic lifters.

[perfconn]

True that 35-40# won't get the job done at 6500rpm but 100# is a bad thing also.High pressure is not necessary but high volume is.The flow of oil through the bearings is what lubricates and cools them.Volume and pressure are two entirely seperate issues.

[hobby28]

Well I hope I didn't screw up. I just bought a 10553 for my new 355 SBC 9:1 hobby stock engine. Clearances .002 rods .0025 on the mains with 10/30 oil.

[Lizardracing]

Perfconn,

Pressure is a measurement of restriction. Increasing the restriction or increasing the volume will both net higher pressure. They are interdependent. Ideally measuring oil flow would be a better indicator of what an engine would need to survive. Enough to cool without unduly wasting power on pumping losses. Unfortunately there's no practical way to measure the needs of oil flow so we instead rely on pressure ahead of the restriction as a reference point.

[TS3g]

The only thing that would make this thread perfect entertainment for us uneducated simpletons would be Dynoman chiming in with some story of how he used an oil pump out of a Maserati or something during a private NASCAR Cup test at Nurburgring with Dale Earnhardt driving and they magically picked up 47hp and 5mph.

[Dirtracer50]

has anyone found a need for higher volume pumps when using the direct lube flat tappets? I installed a new cam and lifters in an engine last season and lost a bunch of oil pressure with the direct lube lifters being the only thing I can think of that may have caused it? Was thinking about installing a different pump this winter to get the oil pressure back to a comfortable range. The oil pressure when hot would never get above about 45 pounds. I pulled the pan and all the bearings look good I would just feel more comfortable with a little more pressure.

[Dirts4Racing]

If you wait till CNC replies you will know exactly what you need. He is the only one that knows everything.

[CNC BLOCKS]

has anyone found a need for higher volume pumps when using the direct lube flat tappets? I installed a new cam and lifters in an engine last season and lost a bunch of oil pressure with the direct lube lifters being the only thing I can think of that may have caused it? Was thinking about installing a different pump this winter to get the oil pressure back to a comfortable range. The oil pressure when hot would never get above about 45 pounds. I pulled the pan and all the bearings look good I would just feel more comfortable with a little more pressure.

Seems like there is a big bleed off some where what was your pressure at idle?

what was the lifter bore clearance with the new lifters?

[Hurst390]

I would check the diameter of the lifters..I don't know about chevy but for my brand it's very hard to find the correct o.d. lifter...
You have to check everything with aftermarket parts..

[ford396]

I would agree with CNC and Hurst390 here. An extra .0005 clearance on 16 lifters adds up to a much larger amount of lubricant bleeding past the lifter. On a positive note, you are putting more oil on the cam lobe. Lifter diameter varies between manufacturers. You may be fortunate that it is a little loose rather than too tight.

Bob

[CNC BLOCKS]

This is a video of oil bleed off between different lifter companies these are roller lifters but it would still apply to a flat tappet lifter as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpfOKr3B3FA

[7uptruckracer]

We had a dart block Mod motor with a 9 quart champ pan the guy put a a high volume pump on and burned it up....He built drag motors not circle track, we turned it 8,500 she burnt up lol We always ran the non high volume stuff We dunno why he changed it but it didn't work for us.....

[7uptruckracer]

I hope this isn't to far off topic I'm not a motor guy what so ever, but have any of you builders run or ran the Accusump system, our guy gave us one but is it really worth it?

[Hurst390]

I'm sure opinions will vary on an accusump...mine is unless it's plumbed in the end of the line...it's nothing more than a pre-luber...meaning if you did empty the canister due to an engine problem/oil delivery issue...unless it's the last thing to receive oil then it's filling that canister and taking volume away from the engine until it is filled..when engine pressure resumes..

[7uptruckracer]

Yeah this one was somehow rigged up on a switch where we could pre lube the motor on startup then it was closed off in cases of low pressure then it would supply extra, It wasn't on the motor that pumped all the oil to the head....but you don't normally have to worry about that in a well built motor.....

[oldgold]

Yeah this one was somehow rigged up on a switch where we could pre lube the motor on startup then it was closed off in cases of low pressure then it would supply extra, It wasn't on the motor that pumped all the oil to the head....but you don't normally have to worry about that in a well built motor..... my son had one on his figure 8 car so it wouldnt suck air in right hand turns.he had a mechanical valve on it and would turn it on when he started it and shut it before he turned engine off .it heald about 2 qts and he didnt have starvation in the hard right turns.

[oldgold]

We had a dart block Mod motor with a 9 quart champ pan the guy put a a high volume pump on and burned it up....He built drag motors not circle track, we turned it 8,500 she burnt up lol We always ran the non high volume stuff We dunno why he changed it but it didn't work for us..... so didnt this motor have 80-90 lbs of oil pressure? would it have survived with just a std volumn pump and have enough oil pressure.? i guess i have always been worried about racing my pure stock motor at 6000 with 45 psi oil pressure and zero when pulling off the track after the race.we also run hydraulic lifters and they clatter when the oil pressure is zero to 10 psi after the race.

[dynoman14]

I guess I will go ahead and post as I feel CNC is getting attacked by the peanut gallery that wouldn't know if their line bore and cam tunnel bore was off or not and certainly not have a clue on how to measure it.
I am pretty sure CNC and I have dis-agreed on a couple things in the past but that is the only way to have and intelligent discourse and learn something. I have seen some of his work on an engine rebuild and the block work was accurate and meticulous.

That being said, I don't think a guy has a big head just cause he knows his work is perfect...I am pretty proud that I can build head machines that have consistent valve-job run-out in the .0001" range. Most folks don't know how and don't know where to find the stuff to measure run-out that minimal, so I think it is pretty significant. And yes I have folks out there to prove it as I have listed 10+ of the top Cylinder Head guys in the world that use my Cylinder Head tooling and machines.

As far as the oil pump question goes, I have been HV/HP Melling pumps in almost every wet-sump engine I have built in the last 20 years and have never pumped a pan dry. You don't use them right out of the box as there is a couple hours of cleaning up and blu-printing to do, but after that they are good to 7500 rpm and 650HP capable. I even had a couple mule SB-2 Practice engines I built as wet-sumps just cause folks said it couldn't be done...guess I am just to dumb to know why it would not work as the engines ran at Charlotte, Daytona, Talladega, Nashville & Atlanta with no problems.

I seem to remember back in the 60's they ran on 426 Hemi's, 409 Chevys, and Ford Semi-Hemis and Tunnel Ports.

[7uptruckracer]

Dart tells you to run the block we run with a standard pump. Because it has primary oiling, that's one thing I don't get why do people run the after markets over the GM stuff is it because of this or quality, or cost vs machining cost of a GM? And apparently it did have high OP I wasn't the driver of this one just the setup guy for it. I truly know nothing about motor just find the oiling topic interesting and always trying to learn more, and want to know what I have in the cars i race or work on to make sure the right pieces are there.