2.3 roller sliders/rocker question

[manny]

i have heard that the rockers on the Ford ranger are a different ratio than the mustangs, i do understand that the vale is a different dia but you can machine it to fit the mustang valves. do you think if the head is milled .100 and run the 237 cam that i can use those rockers without doing any harm? whats your opinion

[billb56]

Not to be too big of a pain, but I used a search engine (IT"S CALLED GOOGLE) and found the following:


The least expensive swap is to grab a used roller cam, followers and lifters from a 1989-92 Ranger or 91 and up Mustang if you have a hydraulic cam. The Ranger cam provides very good low end torque starting at 800 rpm and up to about 4500 rpm.



Ranger Roller Cam


Inexpensive Hot Cam Setup
Looking at the cam and rocker arm (cam follower) specs, there's basically 3 versions:

Non Roller Cam Engines
Have slider rocker arms 1.5:1 ratio
Not interested

1989-1994 2.3L Roller Cam Engines
Lobe Lift
Intake 0.2381"
Exhaust 0.2381"
Rocker arm (cam follower) ratio 1.64:1
Theoretical Valve Lift @ Zero Lash
Intake 0.390"
Exhaust 0.390"
Valve stem 0.3419" dia

1995-2000 2.3L and 2.5L Roller Cam Engines
Lobe Lift
Intake 0.2163"
Exhaust 0.2163"
Rocker arm (cam follower) ratio 1.86:1
Theoretical Valve Lift @ Zero Lash
Intake 0.402"
Exhaust 0.402"
Valve stem 0.2750" dia
Stock Roller Camshaft Pattern


Lobe Center Separation: 112 deg
Intake @ 0.050:
- Open: 14.5 deg BTDC
- Centerline: 108 deg
- Closed: 21.5 ABDC
- Duration: 187 deg

Intake @ 0.00 lift:
- Duration: 248 deg
- Lift: 0.390"

Exhaust @ 0.050:
- Open: 30.5 deg BBDC
- Centerline: 116 deg
- Closed: 21.5 ATDC
- Duration: 189 deg

Exhaust @ 0.00 lift:
- Duration: 250 deg
- Lift: 0.390"

It Gets Interesting!

The hot setup is to use a 95+ Rocker Arm (1.86" ratio) with a 89-94 Roller Cam (0.2381" lobe lift). This will give you a valve lift of 0.443" which is pretty dam hot! If you have an 89-94 2.3L, you will have to widen the valve stem ends (0.2750") of the 95+ rockers to fit the 0.343" valve stems.

[car62]

WOW...alot of false information...lets start with non roller follower..the correct ratio is 1.66. the roller follower REGARDLESS of version is 1.86

also a cam with smaller lift is not going to have more lift than the same type of cam that has less lift...regardless of the rocker/follower being used.

The difference between the 1989-1994 roller followers and the 1995 and up roller followers are material choice(1995 up stamped steel)and valve stem size(1995 up are 7mm, pre-1995 are 11/32)

[car62]

also i do sell the ranger roller cam and followers(pre-1995)for $125 plus shipping

[billb56]

"Thanks Car62." I figured if I put some info out that the true information would surface. Sometimes you just have to use the right bait. The search that I did also shows that what you get from it is not always totally correct and that is why a person has to get involved in their own research. Once you gather the info then you can ask if the info you got is right. I was just trying to emphasize that searching other sources is not that hard. Thanks again.....................

[return to dirt]

WOW...alot of false information...lets start with non roller follower..the correct ratio is 1.66. the roller follower REGARDLESS of version is 1.86

also a cam with smaller lift is not going to have more lift than the same type of cam that has less lift...regardless of the rocker/follower being used.

The difference between the 1989-1994 roller followers and the 1995 and up roller followers are material choice(1995 up stamped steel)and valve stem size(1995 up are 7mm, pre-1995 are 11/32)  

not sure if the ford info is wrong but this is from a 1994 ford online shop manual. it is also the same for 92 and 93.

Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
 Ratio 1.64:1

olin

[return to dirt]

here is more of the 94 shop manual info.

Specifications
Refer to the following chart for engine specifications.

General Specifications
Item Specification
Displacement 2.3L (140 Cubic Inches)
Number of Cylinders 4
Bore and Stroke 3.780 x 3.126
Firing Order 1-3-4-2
Oil Pressure (Hot @ 2000 rpm) 40-60
Drive Belt Tension Refer to Section 03-05, Accessory Drive
Combustion Chamber
Volume (cc) 59.8-62.8
Valve Guide Bore Diameter 0.3433-0.3443
Valve Seats
 Width — Intake .060-.080
 Width — Exhaust .070-.090
 Angle 45°
Runout Limit (T.I.R. Max) 0.0016
Valve Arrangement (Front to Rear) E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I
Valve Lash Adjuster Bore Diameter 0.8430-0.9449
Valve Stem to Guide Clearance
 Intake 0.0010-0.0027
 Exhaust 0.0015-0.0032
 Service Clearance Limit 0.0055 Max.
Valve Head Diameter
 Intake 1.723-1.747
 Exhaust 1.49-1.51
Valve Face Runout Limit 0.002 Max.
Valve Face Angle Limit 44°
Valve Stem Diameter (Std.)
 Intake .3416-.3423
 Exhaust .3411-.3418
 (0.015 Oversize)
 Intake .3566-.3573
 Exhaust .3561-.3568
 (0.030 Oversize)
 Intake .3716-.3723
 Exhaust .3711-.3718
Valve Springs (with Damper Removed)
 Compression Pressure
 (Lb. @ Spec. Length)
  Intake and Exhaust
    (Installed) 71-79 @ 1.52
  Intake and Exhaust
    (Valve Open) 126-142 @ 1.12
   (Valve Closed) 67-74 @ 1.52
  Free Length (Approximate) 1.877
  Assembled Height 1.49-1.55
  Service Limit 5% Pressure Loss @ Specified Length
   Out of Square Service
   Limit 5/64 (0.078)
Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
 Ratio 1.64:1
Valve Tappet, Lifter or Adjuster
 Diameter (Standard) 0.8422-0.8427
 Clearance-to-Bore 0.0007-0.0027
 Service Limit 0.005 Max.
 Hydraulic Leak-Down Rate (1) 2-8 Seconds
 Collapsed Tappet Gap
  Allowable 0.035-0.055 @ Cam
  Desired 0.040-0.050 @ Cam

this is straight out of the online shop manual i use at a ford dealership.

olin

[return to dirt]

here are the same specs for a 95.

Specifications
General Specifications Item Specification
Displacement 2.3L (140 Cubic Inches)
Number of Cylinders 4
Bore and Stroke 3.780 x 3.126
Firing Order 1-3-4-2
Oil Pressure (Hot @ 2000 rpm) 40-60
Drive Belt Tension Refer to Section 03-05, Accessory Drive
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc) 55.5-58.5
Valve Guide Bore Diameter 0.3433-0.3443
Valve Seats
Width — Intake 0.068-0.088
Width — Exhaust .070-.090
Angle 45°
Runout Limit (T.I.R. Max) 0.0020
Valve Arrangement
(Front to Rear) E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I
Valve Lash Adjuster Bore Diameter 0.8430-0.9449
Valve Stem to Guide Clearance
Intake 0.0010-0.0027
Exhaust 0.0015-0.0032
Service Clearance Limit 0.0055 Max.
Valve Head Diameter
Intake 1.723-1.747
Exhaust 1.49-1.51
Valve Face Runout Limit 0.002 Max.
Valve Face Angle Limit 44°
Valve Stem Diameter (Std.)
Intake .2746-.2754
Exhaust .2736-.2744
(0.015 Oversize)
Intake .2896-.2904
Exhaust .2886-.2894
(0.030 Oversize)
Intake .3046-.3054
Exhaust .3036-.3044
Valve Springs
Compression Pressure
(Lb. @ Spec. Length)
Intake and Exhaust
(Installed) 57-63 @ 1.56
Intake and Exhaust
(Valve Open) 118-132 @ 1.16
(Valve Closed) 57-63 @ 1.56
Free Length (Approximate) 2.02
Assembled Height 1.54-1.58
Service Limit 5% Pressure Loss @ Specified Length
Out of Square Service
Limit 5/64 (0.078)
Rocker Arm (Cam Follower)
Ratio 1.86:1
Valve Tappet, Lifter or Adjuster
Diameter (Standard) 0.8422-0.8427
Clearance-to-Bore 0.0007-0.0027
Service Limit 0.005 Max.
Hydraulic Leak-Down Rate (1) 2-8 Seconds
Collapsed Tappet Gap
Allowable 0.035-0.055 @ Cam
Desired 0.040-0.050 @ Cam


olin

[manny]

you see, the 95+ sliders are 1.86:1 ratio. Can that rocker be run with the A237 cam without spring problems or anything else?

[return to dirt]

there are 2 things that might cause a problem. one is that the 1.86 followers are stamped. if you machine enough off to fit the larger valve it may weaken the follower too much. two, the way you increase the ratio is to move the roller closer to the lash adjuster. i believe this will cause the intake to open later and the exhaust to open earlier if you use a cam made for 1.64 followers. how much it will affect the cam timing and performance i don't know. maybe big e or 84dave will have more info. it would seem to make sense that to get top performance from the 1.86 followers you should have a cam ground for them.

olin

[Profile]

WHY couldn't you grind down the dia of the early model valve stem tip to fit the late model roller rockers?

[car62]

WHY couldn't you grind down the dia of the early model valve stem tip to fit the late model roller rockers?

sure,and then get them re-hardened...just more money,would be cheaper to do it the right way from the beginning.

[Profile]

Then the right way is to enlarge the slot in the late roller rockers? I though "return to dirt" said that would weaken the rocker arm too much. Which way is the correct way?

[car62]

having the correct cam for the components