Pull Bars: Then vs Now & Open Vs Crate Tech

[RRR_Products]

Ok everyone I think this is a topic that should be touched as far as what open motor guys do for pull bar vs the crate guys. There is a difference and would like more input from you the racers as to what you like and why. ThanksRoyceRRR Products

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Tell us! A pullbar isn't the best choice for a suspension with a fair amount of dynamic wheelbase change.

[Confused?]

It's all that is allowed in IMCA though.

[RRR_Products]

It's all that is allowed in IMCA though.Exactly. But as for lift bars is anyone using a biscuit bar or still spring?

[7uptruckracer]

Pierce Uses a Lift Bar with a Decel Biscuit and one way Pull bar with a 90/10 option. But no sprung lift bar/shock combo on their cars, seems to be a little lacking because the Pull bar is only around 18" but we run against some really strong Shaw Lift arm cars

[MM90]

Most of the guys I know running a Crate have a bushing bar. I picked up a few cheap pull bars over the winter and plan on trying them all over the course of the season. I ran a BSB bushing bar all last year. And that's what I'm going to start the season on. And I run open engines.

[RRR_Products]

Most of the guys I know running a Crate have a bushing bar. I picked up a few cheap pull bars over the winter and plan on trying them all over the course of the season. I ran a BSB bushing bar all last year. And that's what I'm going to start the season on. And I run open engines.So are you experimenting with different bars? Please let us know what bars you will be using. Also, what style bsb bar did you use and the combo you ran along with life span?

[MM90]

BSB only makes one bushing bar. Gonna start the season with a Blue/Red bushing. Picked up a brand new Quick Car double bushing with 2 yellow bushings. Got a used PRC or PRP spring bushing bar but I don't know when I'm gonna try it and with what spring along with the bushings or no bushings and just straight spring. And I have an old Afco one way spring bar with a progressive spring that I haven't run on this car yet. Gonna be on two different tires during the season IMCA and NON Stamped Hoosier G-60 too. And a new engine combo so I have a lot of variables that changed from last season.

[RRR_Products]

BSB only makes one bushing bar. Gonna start the season with a Blue/Red bushing. Picked up a brand new Quick Car double bushing with 2 yellow bushings. Got a used PRC or PRP spring bushing bar but I don't know when I'm gonna try it and with what spring along with the bushings or no bushings and just straight spring. And I have an old Afco one way spring bar with a progressive spring that I haven't run on this car yet. Gonna be on two different tires during the season IMCA and NON Stamped Hoosier G-60 too. And a new engine combo so I have a lot of variables that changed from last season.Just a thought on the 2 bushing quick car. The stack is short so don't expect a long life span out of the bushings. That's something I've seen end a race early for some. What are you running for motor? We've been seeing less travel is helping with the crate guys due to the lack of horsepower and energy needing to be absorbed going to the tires.

[riddle28]

I'm not sure but I would guess they may be running more preload if they've got a spring bar or a little stiffer bushings. I've always ran more preload and liked it

[mod71m]

Has anybody experimented with a solid bar instead of a pull bar when running a crate?
You would loose the brake bushing side when going to a solid bar but I question how much difference that will really make.

The only thing a spring or bushing in a pull bar does is absorb torque so that the driver doesn't have to be quite as careful with the throttle pedal. The supposed "improved traction" when putting a spring or bushing in a pull bar is not real. The driver may think there is more traction because he can hit the throttle pedal harder but in all actuality the spring is just absorbing some of that torque instead of it being applied to the tires. This is why you see a lot of widget pull bars, springs, bushings, etc. and any if not all of them have won races. The pull bar spring rate or bushing stiffness is all about making the driver comfortable. Once you find something the driver likes quit spending your money on something that will not make you any faster than you already are.

I like very stiff pull bar springs so I plan to try a solid bar in my car with a lower HP open motor, especially on a heavy track but I'm going to try it in the slick also.

[Confused?]

The one thing I can tell you about a solid pull bar, is if you are on a rough, locked down track, you will hate it. Smooth is a different story though.

[RRR_Products]

Has anybody experimented with a solid bar instead of a pull bar when running a crate? You would loose the brake bushing side when going to a solid bar but I question how much difference that will really make. The only thing a spring or bushing in a pull bar does is absorb torque so that the driver doesn't have to be quite as careful with the throttle pedal. The supposed "improved traction" when putting a spring or bushing in a pull bar is not real. The driver may think there is more traction because he can hit the throttle pedal harder but in all actuality the spring is just absorbing some of that torque instead of it being applied to the tires. This is why you see a lot of widget pull bars, springs, bushings, etc. and any if not all of them have won races. The pull bar spring rate or bushing stiffness is all about making the driver comfortable. Once you find something the driver likes quit spending your money on something that will not make you any faster than you already are. I like very stiff pull bar springs so I plan to try a solid bar in my car with a lower HP open motor, especially on a heavy track but I'm going to try it in the slick also. This is why I started this thread. Ive noticed with the pull bars guys are having more success with .5"-1" of travedl with crates. With an open motor 1" and up because of the power needing to be absorbed as it will be tougher to be smoother with a lot more power under your right foot. I hadn't seen this talked about much. The drivers I have spoken with running crates have tried solid but still would like just a small amount of energy absorbed. It inevitably is a mechanical traction aid. Traction control helps even the best drivers.

[MM90]

Length also affects what spring rate to run in a pull bar, the trend seems to be now for chassis to have shorter pull bars. Mine is around 30-31" so what may work for one driver/car may not work on a different car.

[RRR_Products]

Length also affects what spring rate to run in a pull bar, the trend seems to be now for chassis to have shorter pull bars. Mine is around 30-31" so what may work for one driver/car may not work on a different car. Its not the length that determines the rate it would be location above centerline of axle, tire, engine, and angle. The length will determine where the car is unloaded and loaded at chassis mount.

[mod71m]

The one thing I can tell you about a solid pull bar, is if you are on a rough, locked down track, you will hate it. Smooth is a different story though.

It's interesting that you say that. I run a 1450 spring or a 1000 to 1600 with with 3/4" preload all the time and i've not noticed it's a lot better in the rough compared to less preload or a 1050 spring. On the cushion I've always liked stiff, stiff, stiff! That's part of what made me want to try solid.

I can see why you say solid may not be the best in the rough since the spring will absorb some of the shock when the tires are jumping on and off the track. I'll give it a shot though and see what happens. Typically I'm pretty fast in the rough just due to the driving approach I take with rough tracks. We shall see.

Thanks for the feedback!

[mod71m]

Also I've seen many nights when the fastest Sport Mod was turning equal to or faster lap times than the fastest Modified. He was doing that on a 2 link and solid pull bar and always when it's slick, granted the 5" spoiler was helping out.

That guy races Modified now so it doesn't happen as often any more, however the fact still remains that the fastest car on the track on many slick race tracks had a solid bar in it...

[Confused?]

And a 5" blade, and less torque.

The few times I got to run a solid bar,I liked it, WHEN the track was smooth.

[RRR_Products]

With less hp and a smother power curve the sport mods can run the same times as an A mod. We've seen super/pro stocks doing it with 600 lbs more weight and only 3 link suspension. I know working around the IMCA territory the tire can only provide so much grip. Example: if a car was running say 4.7 seconds down the back stretch and 5.6 in the corner and the next lap 4.6 down back stretch the corner speed was usually a tenth slower timing drivers in sections. We've found the crate motors aren't needing as much cushioning as an open motor because the motor is less prone to over power the racing surface and is easier to control the throttle. But we have tried solid on tacky because the grip is there but dry slick were finding we still do need that small amount of energy absorption. Less with the crate motor and more with an open motor running 500 + hp.