Needling

[Garrettshurling]

Does anyone needle their tires? I have a basic understanding of the process and know that I should have it in my war chest.

Best practices?

How does it effect the durometer reading?

How do you tell when your done?

[FlatTire]

lol..you portray yourself as a technical guru on your website and even have a small section regarding needling, yet you come here asking all about it? If you are going to troll for info on needling, then you might change your screen name and not post your website at the bottom of it!

But to answer your questions

Best practices?
-Don't waste your money/time/energy. Go buy yourself new tires.

How does it effect the durometer reading?
-It doesn't. To change the hardness of rubber you need to change the temperature or chemical make up.

How do you tell when your done?
When you poked too deep of holes in the tire and it goes flat!

Be sure to give credit to your source when you use this for your website.

[swingarm4life]

Garrett, the first thing you will learn when looking for answers to certain questions is that there are truly alot of very smart people on here. The second thing you'll learn is that there are also alot of smarta$$ people on here, you will just have to learn to tell the difference. Even the experts and "crew chiefs for hire" on here are looking for answers or else they wouldnt be on here, they're not just here to answer questions.

[hpmaster]

Funny thing about tires in dirt LM is the guys who know how to make them work are not talking, racers edge or accused of cheating and have stopped talking. If you ever really get a handle on making tires work you will be accused of cheating and will end up stop talking about them too.
An acquaintance and friend of mine who has a dirt late model in the Dirt Hall of Fame has given me help on everything, except tires, only to say people never put enough work into them. We enjoy crediting success as breaking the rules, it's a time honored part of racing. JMHO

[Matt49]

Does anyone needle their tires? I have a basic understanding of the process and know that I should have it in my war chest.

Best practices?

How does it effect the durometer reading?

How do you tell when your done?

It doesn't soften the rubber like a meat tenderizer which is what your own website says...I'm confused.... Do you really not know the answer or are you just making stuff up to put on the website? A lot of the information you have posted on tire preparation is simply incorrect. E.g. siping does not add working edges and grooving a tire more does not make it run cooler.
I'm trying not to be hard on you here because I can certainly appreciate what you're trying to do with the website deal but there is lot of misinformation there and then you are on here asking for it to be corrected it seems. Nobody knows everything but...well...I digress...

[Garrettshurling]

Matt, I appreciate the honesty. I'm definitely not a "guru" as Flattire has already pointed out. I'm just a weekend warrior that tries to put what I've learned from others into practice and help the ones coming behind me.

The hard thing about doing what I'm doing is... If you wait until you have perfect mastery over a subject to try and help someone else that behind you, you'll just never start. I do, however, have an obligation to my audience to accuracy and I'll continue to edit my articles as I learn. I have a basic understanding of needling, bug I'm sure you know all too well that knowing and doing are two totally different things!

I'm sure I'll write wrong stuff in the future and I'm glad I have you guys to answer too when I do!

[Garrettshurling]

I do however... disagree with you on the effects of grooving and siping, but thats a topic for another thread I guess.

[Matt49]

I do however... disagree with you on the effects of grooving and siping, but thats a topic for another thread I guess.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. If there was one magic setup and method of doing everything, this would be a very boring hobby.

[Garrettshurling]

That's for sure

[Bubstr]

I do however... disagree with you on the effects of grooving and siping, but thats a topic for another thread I guess.

Start the thread, It should be an interesting discussion.

[Nobody]

How does it effect the durometer reading? The most true answer would be it doesn't actually effect the actual duro rating of the rubber itself, but can/will make it test softer. All the small holes allows the rubber to move more, thus can make the durometer read lower then it should. Then add in the fact that the person doing the teching may actually slightly hit one of the holes with the durometer and get false reading. This isn't much different then doing the same thing on a tire with a lot of sipes in it, it happens all the time with some tech guys.

[Garrettshurling]

The most true answer would be it doesn't actually effect the actual duro rating of the rubber itself, but can/will make it test softer. All the small holes allows the rubber to move more, thus can make the durometer read lower then it should. Then add in the fact that the person doing the teching may actually slightly hit one of the holes with the durometer and get false reading. This isn't much different then doing the same thing on a tire with a lot of sipes in it, it happens all the time with some tech guys.

Part of the reason I haven't messed with it much is because the tire rules around here are policed with a durometer reading and a lab test of a tire sample reading afterwards. I'm concerned the needler might skew the durometer reading and get me a DQ! Has anyone ever been DQ'd by a low durometer reading due to needling?

[FlatTire]

Here's an idea...needle your tire only deep enough so by the end of the feature the tech man won't be able to tell what you've done because all your needling holes will be worn off. Or if you are worried about it, go do a big burnout on a dry section of the track so they will be worn smooth off before you pull off the track. Problem solved. This is top secret stuff now, Club 29 hasn't even figured this out yet. ;-)

Does your tech man take durometer readings at a certain tire temperature too? Durometers are a horrible tool to use for "tech" purposes. Way too many variables to throw the reading off like needling/siping/temperature.

Make sure to show ole FlatTire some love on your website when you post this info.

[Garrettshurling]

thanks for letting me in on the secret FlatTire! Not planning on writing an article any time soon, but I'll source ya if I ever do! Got too much other stuff in the que.

And I agree on durometers being horrible for tech purposes. I had tire blister last year and the tech guy tried to take the win away from me because the tire was reading soft. Luckily, reason prevailed.