rocket differences and questions

[monster777]

I have an 05 black front rocket. It has 2 upper a arm mounting positions. Why ? Can this be converted over to a blue front? If so what all needs changed? Another question, what is the difference between the 2? Also have heard of a blue/grey.
Next is this talk I hear of the raised crossmember. What is the purpose of this and how does it help ? Any insight would be helpful . thank you

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have an 05 black front rocket. It has 2 upper a arm mounting positions. Why ? Can this be converted over to a blue front? If so what all needs changed? Another question, what is the difference between the 2? Also have heard of a blue/grey.
Next is this talk I hear of the raised crossmember. What is the purpose of this and how does it help ? Any insight would be helpful . thank you

I can answer some of your questions. The blue and black cars have different width racks and different pickup point spacing for the lower control arms. I have never seen a car that could be both. The crossmember would need to be changed.

The grey spindle is a different spindle for the blue car. Same car.

A raised crossmember keeps it out of the dirt when you are getting a lot of rf suspension travel.

[monster777]

Understood the mounting points are different,but what is the purpose ? More clearance for suspension travel ? How does each front end drive compared to each other

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Understood the mounting points are different,but what is the purpose ? More clearance for suspension travel ? How does each front end drive compared to each other

You can get more suspension travel if the crossmember is raised. You can run the setups that are common with the touring guys on an old car.

In general, the black front is considered a "throw and go" type car. Ok being driven sideways.

The blue front needs to be driven straighter.

As always, setup matters and can alter a car's typical handling.

[shocker33]

The difference why is the roll centers and migration Are drastically different between the two. Only way to update a black to a blue correctly is a front stub.

[monster777]

Ok guys thank you . Now the crossmember being raised, is it moved just on the right side? Or both , and how much . Anything a guy that's handy with a welder can do himself ?

[Matt49]

I could be wrong but I think you also need to put center pull eyes on your rack to keep the bump steer correct. Surely someone with more knowledge on the Rockets can confirm or deny this.

[monster777]

Ah good point. I have access to a blue front rack but I don't think it has the eyes. I emailed rocket but haven't heard anything yet .

[jrkracing54]

I was told the crossmember is raised 1" and the tie rods just bolt to the bottom of the rack instead of the top but not sure. I also believe that update is only for the blue front cars but again not positive. They don't do much with the black front end cars anymore. John 1*

[monster777]

I got ahold of rocket, only way to change it to a blue front is to clip it ,change everything.the 2 mounting holes are just to tighten or loosen car up on entry. The crossmember I'll leave alone and just tune on my setup a bit. I just want to keep up with the changing sport but I'm afraid the whole black front is outdated.

[7uptruckracer]

The black front hasn't really changed much since 2004 when they raised the RF rail. They have re-arranged rear end brackets just to give you more adjustability. They are great cars still dependable, and easy to tune. They don't drive the same as the blue, but I wouldn't go selling the farm just because guys are running the blue/grey or orange. Their are some that run exceptionally well here. Being your have the Raised RF rail car your still in good shape. If you need any direction or help send me a message. If you get their setup book remember its based for open motors its not quite the same setup as you would have with a steel head. If you want a blue buy a blue not worth cutting up to try to make it, not cost effective even if you do it yourself blacks are great stick to it!

[monster777]

Agreed. Car still drives very well. I'm looking at getting a crate and with that competition being so close I don't want to be out to lunch. I think my biggest problem in the past was tightening the car too much . Next question what is the difference between a blue front and a blue/grey and an orange. What advantages do these each have .

[7uptruckracer]

Blue and Grey are spindles. The Blue/Grey is a combo spindle when they first came out it was one spindle or the other. Same Chassis. Now you can move the tie rod on the steering arm to Grey Position or Blue Position to accomplish different things. The Orange is a whole new design (It was an attempt to make a Bloomquist, one ended up at Rocket which is why Bloomer has buyback rights etc etc when you get his chassis, also mark is a business man if he can make a new design or change something slightly like LR rear end limiters he will to sell parts its just good business), but now they are taking the Blue fronts and Putting Orange rears on them for a form of a blue orange hybrid, and the blue has another new crossmember that allows even softer RF without bottoming out. The worst thing you can do on todays cars is overtighten entry especially on a black its made to be more yawed out and still drive forward. I have guys I help on blue and black crate packages and both run really really well. You won't be out to lunch in either. Blacks run well but aren't as plentiful as they use to be so you see blues win more because there are more running If I had either I wouldn't be afraid to keep it. You can win in a black. Shocks and setup package is the ticket today the chassis are getting closer and closer every year.

[monster777]

Very interesting. Thanks everyone !

[AmickRacing]

I have an '04 black Rocket and I'm pretty happy with it.
I know my car is completely capable of winning races (the driver for some reason keeps it slowed down lol). I have done a bit of experimenting with the setup, and for the most part, looser going in the faster the car will be.

I'm not sure I can explain it like I understand it in my head, but here goes...
My car at least doesn't like to be tossed into the corner, but it likes to be counter-steered into the corner. Basically if you drive in and make the car slide (with brakes or by throwing it), it's not very happy and tough to make predictable consistent laps. If the car is loose enough going in where it wants to turn left almost by itself (minimal steering input to the left), the better the car is. Of course there's a fine line there. You don't want it so loose you're always catching it either.

What I try to aim for is making the car free going in, but maybe just a tick tighter than free. When the car is like this, and you drive it in a bit harder (still not throwing it), it seems to be about perfect. Having said all that... that's what it should be like for me anyway. Between driving errors and setup errors, it can be a bit of a wild goose chase lol.

Here's a video of mine, far from a perfect race, but a very good one for me. Watch how I barely have to turn goin in, and just catch it, and let it drive out of the corner.
http://youtu.be/VvYB-oXIwKI

[DK1]

the 2 mounting holes are just to tighten or loosen car up on entry

Did they say which set made the car looser? I've been fighting with my '02 Black Front end being tight on entry. I started with the set up rocket uses in their set up book but I end up burying the RF. Like Amick said, if the car slides in the corner the car gets upset and its hard to carry any speed through the corner.

What spring/shock settings and how much wedge are you guys running?

[Brian Gray]

The holes on the uppers change your roll centers and camber gains. Typically the lower holes will help the car turn better on tighter tracks the uppers you might find help on longer more momentum tracks. Black fronts are completely different from blue/ GRAY's. Front and rear the orange car was not a bloomer copy. It was a joint venture design with port city. It is also different front and rear. They all work well the blacks work good for b type drivers who like to power through the corners they tend to be tight middle oriented. The blue gray is more of a moderate. Very driver friendly and stable. The orange is more an a type driver for guys that don't drive sideways but like to be locked down and straight. There are big difference s in the front end design on each and made to serve different needs

[Brian Gray]

You can quote me on this I believe mark bush designed the black front end and port city did the orange. The bluefront I don't know but the Gray spindle was a later option for the blue front end.

[c.mac.4]

You can quote me on this I believe mark bush designed the black front end and port city did the orange. The bluefront I don't know but the Gray spindle was a later option for the blue front end.CJ Rayburn designed the Blue ;)

[Bcollins82]

CJ Rayburn designed the Blue ;)

Actually, Ed Howe designed CJs frontend for him. But yes, a blue frontend is a Rayburn copy.

[96racing]

Be careful when you put the RF a arm in the lower holes. It will give more camber gain but also bring the shock closer to the ball joint in it's movement. Mine would hit occasionally and catch the coil over adjuster on the edge of the ball joint.

[AmickRacing]

Mine did that also. I ended up drilling a hole just behind the standard hole. I also cut the spacers that were welded in the standard holes, and made news ones for the new hole.
I only moved the top of the shock in 3/4" or so, I figured not killing a shock was more important than the slight geometric change.

[monster777]

Agreed.I also had the same problem. Moved mine in as well.