LR Bite vs Cross vs Drive

[DirtRacer9x]

Ok so I keep reading about or hearing about people raising lr bite to gain drive. This to me doesn't make sense at all. Reason I say this is Because the car is ending up when hiked the same final drop, bar angle, and if off spring well it's simply off the spring. So I do not understand how you would want more lr bite for the slick. Especially since if I'm thinking properly on this as well the more lr bite you have the looser you will be on the brakes since it would help load the front more. The only way I can see more bite working is if I raised cross. Say, one turn in RF and LR and out 1 turn RR and LF. So can anyone tell me if I am correct on this thinking. It makes sense to me just wanted thoughts from everyone else and am explanation.

[Bcollins82]

Raising your LR bite IS raising crossweight... Dirt racers just tend to compare LR weight vs RR instead of giving a crossweight percentage. You cant raise LR bite without raising crossweight unless you physically move weight around in the car.

[drtrkr244]

If you're off the spring, you are losing a lot of traction. Theres enough springs being made to stop that or you could run the stacked deal.

[Bcollins82]

If you simply turn say 3 turns into the lr and at full hike you're off the spring say 1/2" and the 3 turns reduced that gap to 1/8" nothing has changed on throttle... This is what I'm trying to clarify.

If you crank 3 rounds in the LR only, you are adding crossweight. If you add crossweight you add preload to the RF spring, and take weight away from the RR and LF. This added crossweight will still put more pressure on the LR on throttle because of this. The increased preload in the RF still pushes harder on the LR whether it pushes against a spring, or against the bars, and there is still less weight on the RR and LF... And changing birdcage rotation through rod angles and mounting points on the birdcage itself will change the amount of preload a LR spring has without you changing the spring rate to a softer one.

[Nobody]

I have to disagree sitting here thinking about it. As soon as I put turns into the others I'd see more of a change but of spring is unloaded the total remains the same as far as loading. Help me understand more please. I could have with the same hike say 5" and there is any distance or gap from the spring not loaded say 1/8"- 1" and the car would be the same once hiked and locked in on the limiter chain. Statically I see how it changes but I can't see it adding drive all the way down the straight. I could see more instant drive at first but that's it. I can only see the reaction until full hike that there be any change. Otherwise over all I see no change once up ok bars and chain tight. Because your basically right. The amount of dynamic wedge the car has is basically limited by the chain length and the compression/rate of the other 3 springs on the car (I'm over simplifying cause the RR can also climb the bars similar to the LR and effect wedge on the car.

Anyone that thinks adding static LR bite to a car will add drive down the straights if fooling themselves.

[Bcollins82]

Because your basically right. The amount of dynamic wedge the car has is basically limited by the chain length and the compression/rate of the other 3 springs on the car (I'm over simplifying cause the RR can also climb the bars similar to the LR and effect wedge on the car.

Anyone that thinks adding static LR bite to a car will add drive down the straights if fooling themselves.

So you think that it doesn't matter how much crossweight you have, LR travel is the only factor determining your total dynamic wedge amount? Lol Go scale your car with 100lbs of RR and see how much drive you still have compared to normal. Yes, adding drop is a much bigger change, but it doesn't mean a small crossweight change does nothing to forward drive when you are up on the bars. Your cross/LR bite is still a factor in the amount the other 3 springs are loaded.

[7uptruckracer]

You MUST remember the rear ends of these cars DO NOT load the tires via the springs for the most part on exit they load the tires via THE BARS using thrust angle. even if your LR is off the spring when you add cross you take weight off the RR. You move to upper bars to effect roll steer somewhat but your upper bar angle gain is what loads your tires. Your upper and lower bars when angled if you draw and imaginary line that extends each bar until both bars intersect take that point and draw a line back to the center of your contact patch that is your thrust angle thats why when you raise the left upper bar you gain traction on the LR and are tighter on throttle when you raise the RRU it makes you looser because it loads the tire more. Bite of cross does the same thing. A spring that rebounds 3" (hike) is going to take X amount of weight off that tire because its in a state of rebound X is a constant given the same spring and same hike number. So if you add more weight to the LR which takes it off the RR your still going to rebound the same X of weight off the LR but the bite you added has left you with a higher remainder on the LR compared to before

[Nobody]

So you think that it doesn't matter how much crossweight you have, LR travel is the only factor determining your total dynamic wedge amount? Lol Go scale your car with 100lbs of RR and see how much drive you still have compared to normal. Yes, adding drop is a much bigger change, but it doesn't mean a small crossweight change does nothing to forward drive when you are up on the bars. Your cross/LR bite is still a factor in the amount the other 3 springs are loaded.

Once the car is against the chain the Dynamic bite is set and only effected by the other 3 corners of the car (for this discussion: I'm eliminating this slight variances from ride heights from changing the static wedge) so assuming that the slight static wedge change isn't going to effect the other 3 corners much dynamically.

So a car set with 100# of RR bite is going to end up with almost the exact same amount of dynamic bite as if it were set with 100# of LR bite. I'm saying that once the car is against the limiter and assuming that the dynamic ride heights of the other 3 corners didn't change, then the dynamic bite is the same.



Anyone that thinks adding static LR bite to a car will add drive down the straights if fooling themselves.

I said down the straights, which is referring to the car being on the limiter. There is no denying that wedge will effect the car, never said it wouldn't. However what I said is it has such a small minute effect on the car once against the limiter, that you aren't going to notice a difference for the most part.

Higher wedge generally doesn't add drive per say as in forward drive, which isn't the same as tight or loose off the corner. Higher wedge will allow the car to drive with more wheel spin before the back-end starts to drift out. If you have ever used telemetry to monitor wheel spin and various other things on a LM: 1. you will be amazed on the amount of wheel spin the cars are driven at. 2. You can see what effects the amount of wheel spin before the car gets too much yaw and loses time.

Again that last statement is dealing with the car against the chain, if the car isn't or not staying there then that changes things.

If you choose to disregard or disagree with my statements, I have no issue with that. But think about what I have said

[Bcollins82]

Once the car is against the chain the Dynamic bite is set and only effected by the other 3 corners of the car (for this discussion: I'm eliminating this slight variances from ride heights from changing the static wedge) so assuming that the slight static wedge change isn't going to effect the other 3 corners much dynamically

So a car set with 100# of RR bite is going to end up with almost the exact same amount of dynamic bite as if it were set with 100# of LR bite. I'm saying that once the car is against the limiter and assuming that the dynamic ride heights of the other 3 corners didn't change, then the dynamic bite is the same.



I said down the straights, which is referring to the car being on the limiter. There is no denying that wedge will effect the car, never said it wouldn't. However what I said is it has such a small minute effect on the car once against the limiter, that you aren't going to notice a difference for the most part.

Higher wedge generally doesn't add drive per say as in forward drive, which isn't the same as tight or loose off the corner. Higher wedge will allow the car to drive with more wheel spin before the back-end starts to drift out. If you have ever used telemetry to monitor wheel spin and various other things on a LM: 1. you will be amazed on the amount of wheel spin the cars are driven at. 2. You can see what effects the amount of wheel spin before the car gets too much yaw and loses time.

Again that last statement is dealing with the car against the chain, if the car isn't or not staying there then that changes things.

If you choose to disregard or disagree with my statements, I have no issue with that. But think about what I have said


I hear what you are saying, but you can't add static crossweight without changing the loading of all 4 corners dynamically. If you have wheel weights of 600lbs on every corner, then you add 100 lbs of LR bite and have wheel weights of 650 lr, 550rr, 550lf, and 650rf, then add wedge dynamically through thrust angle, even if the LR is against a positive stop, you will have less weight on the LF and RR, and more weight on the RF and LR than you would if all 4 had started equally at 600 resulting in higher total dynamic crossweight.

[7uptruckracer]

No that's totally wrong if you've added bite youve taken away RR load.

[FlatTire]

Thank you Nobody and DirtRacer9x. What you guys stated confirmed my thoughts and what I always felt in the car.

[7uptruckracer]

The LR spring is in a state of rebound it isn't adding any load to the LR tire. All the LR spring does is control how quick it can index and get onto the bar. When you change the static ride height your change the static bar angles and bird cage clocking and timing which will effect the LR load thats why the change helps add drive your changing the sweep and starting point your in a different part of the bars curve. Your arguments are irrelevant until you can explain how a spring in a state of rebound is also sending a force downward. THE BAR LOADS THE TIRE. thats why its coming off the spring the bar is applying the downward force to plant the tire. Its also why you chain the RR so the bar doesn't overload the RR and make the car loose. Its balancing upward thrust to forward thrust and the balance LR to RR. The only time a spring matters is when its in a state of compression. All your changing with the collar is your starting points and sweeps of loading until its off the spring from a bar standpoint which has effected its loadings compared to the RR

[Matt49]

So my RF spring doesn't affect my setup when it's NOT being compressed?!?!?
I beg to differ.
Unloading (rebound) of a spring is critical to handling because that load has to be going somewhere.

[7uptruckracer]

Thats not what I'm saying they are limiting hike at X and trying to say somehow they are keeping the same spring and making it rebound the same amount moving the collar and its not changing dynamic LR bite which isn't true.

[7uptruckracer]

The RF also doesn't load via a bar now does it? Rf tire load is effected by the springs energy absorption. To say the chain stops here so it can't effect bite. Is asinine, what did it do till it got there? Thats why the LR collar change works it changes everything it does until that point correct?

[Matt49]

The RF also doesn't load via a bar now does it? Rf tire load is effected by the springs energy absorption. To say the chain stops here so it can't effect bite. Is asinine, what did it do till it got there? Thats why the LR collar change works it changes everything it does until that point correct?

I think we're saying the same thing...but to be clear, I'm responding directly to your comment:
"The only time a spring matters is when its in a state of compression." That statement is not true.

With regards to the LR and adding bite I'll say this...It does (at a minimum) three things:
1) adds static cross weight
2) give dynamic cross weight a head start
3) increases static j-bar rake

Reason number 3 is why "adding bite" can tighten you on exit AND entry. Because you're doing more than just "adding bite". You're changing other rear end geometry at the same time.

I think a lot of racers (myself included) get in the habit of adding bite and subsequently over-tighten their cars on entry by doing so. I know more than a few really fact racers that say set your bite where it works and LEAVE it.

[7uptruckracer]

Agreed I was trying to say a spring in a state of rebound is transferring weight elsewhere BECAUSE its rebound being its doing that one action it can't also be loading the LR those loadings are coming from the bar which is causing the spring to be in the rebound state. They are trying to say your catching the car at 14" of hike no matter what so you bite at that point will be the same EVERY time and it will not.

I think we're saying the same thing...but to be clear, I'm responding directly to your comment:
"The only time a spring matters is when its in a state of compression." That statement is not true.

With regards to the LR and adding bite I'll say this...It does (at a minimum) three things:
1) adds static cross weight
2) give dynamic cross weight a head start
3) increases static j-bar rake

Reason number 3 is why "adding bite" can tighten you on exit AND entry. Because you're doing more than just "adding bite". You're changing other rear end geometry at the same time.

[7uptruckracer]

No because a change to the RF height will effect front end geometry like roll centers, caster, camber. Thats why when you rough your car in they give you all the heights but the LR.

I'm pretty lost on this one guys. But if there is nothing on the lr spring at full hike I believe nothing changes at all once full hike is achieved. From not hiked to hiked I believe would change though due to the added cross. Now wouldn't adding turns to the rf be better than lr since we know this would translate to the rear since it is always loaded?

[Matt49]

Cross weight is cross weight regardless of which spring you turn to achieve it.
But if you go cranking on the front you're going to change static ride height which will change static roll center subsequently dynamic roll center migration timing, camber gain timing, etc., etc.

Just remember, every time you make a change something on a car to achieve something (in this case, changing ride height to achieve cross weight) you are also "achieving" other things (in this case, increased static bar angles and birdcage indexing).
Once you learn to think like that about your setup changes, you'll have a much better understanding of what's going on. I call them byproducts. Some byproducts will compliment your setup and some won't.

[DirtRacer9x]

So would a turn in and out each corner be better than just adjusting LR?

[Bcollins82]

So would a turn in and out each corner be better than just adjusting LR?

Yes, in my opinion that's absolutely the best way to do it. Always try to adjust wedge on the scales so you can keep your ride heights the same if you have the option. Obviously you can't do that at the track, so adjusting all 4 corners is the best option there. Some people play on the scales to find how far to turn each corner to achieve X amount of change, but I have always preferred to make other changes at the track if possible.

[drtrkr244]

I've been using Joe Garrisons method for years and it works on all cars.
1 round in RF, 1 out LF, 2 in LR, 2 out RR= 50lbs more bite.

I usually do 1/2 of these to get 25lbs more.

[Nobody]

Jesus, I just lost a 2 page post, trying to explain this better, LOL.

I'll try to retype it later, sorry

[gaz05]

Have been reading this with interest, is there a percentage of cross weight where its too high, eg 52% or should it be in the high 40s ?

[DirtRacer9x]

Well any input please help with. I'm still wanting to have it explained when the strap is right how I'd have more drive even though I'm not touching the spring. Also isn't there other ways to keep spring loaded and have drive. Example like not hike as much and have more cross, have less front rebound, or more lr bite etc? Or does having a gas charged shock act as a spring at say 30-45lbs of rod pressure?

[dfhotlm33c]

The scientist in me wants to see an empirical study....
Set your car up at ride height with the amount of LR bite you normally run with.
Put the car in full hike position...use a long rod instead of a shock perhaps and get the left rear where it would be at full hike...use a chain or other mechanism to compress the right front to its dynamic position on exit of a corner, including accounting for countersteer..as well as the right rear..(Use your travel indicators on your shocks as the guideline for where these points would be)..even compress your fifth coil to its position when you are at full hike...Now put it on scales. determine your weights...put back to ride height...crank a bunch of extra bite in it, or as some are saying, go the opposite direction and put 100 lbs RR in it...put it back to full hike position...measure again...see if there is a change..
this wouldn't be perfect...it would require a set of rollers like on a chassis dyno, and person in the drivers seat mashing the throttle to truly mimic wrap up and other factors and variables (hmmmm....there's an invention for someone to create..a set of "dynamic" scales that would allow you to truly measure the weight movement under given conditions...or better yet..some chassis data acquisition package that would use the basic principles of physics and sensors to provide you with that information on a test car at the track.)
We could all speculate all we want but this is one to "prove" one way the other...

[keeks]

Question......If I were to try and mimic the position of the car statically say using ratchet straps to achieve my shock and spring compressions, would I strap the car to itself, or to the ground?

I'm thinking I would have to have floor anchors and pull the car down to mimic the forces produced during racing.

[DirtRacer9x]

There is no way to mimicking what the car would be doing. Simply doing travel of spring would let you know how much weight is placed onto each spring but all the ballast weight is moving as well. That's my thinking on that at least.

[DirtRacer9x]

But as for lr spring should I always have it loaded? Because once it's unloaded any turns at all I don't believe affect total drive once hiked. I believe there will be a difference from spring loaded to unloaded but overall hike and added drive won't be different. I think Initial on throttle drive may go up because yes you have added cross but you're ending up off the spring still with the same hike. So should I always have the car on the spring even if its compressed just 1/8-1/4". Meaning take hike out of the car and change maybe some calving instead on shocks?

[c.mac.4]

Question......If I were to try and mimic the position of the car statically say using ratchet straps to achieve my shock and spring compressions, would I strap the car to itself, or to the ground? I'm thinking I would have to have floor anchors and pull the car down to mimic the forces produced during racing.not with any kind of accurate results... you would have no way to simulate engine torque, 5th arm/pullbar effects, or even inertia pulling the car sideways. HUGELY critical variables.

[setup479point2]

Just wonder what kind of late model chassis has an unloaded LR spring , with anything over 125 lb. of bite? I've never worked with one .

[Bcollins82]

Just wonder what kind of late model chassis has an unloaded LR spring , with anything over 125 lb. of bite? I've never worked with one .

No kidding... I was always pulling the limit chain loose at the axle so I can get more rounds in because it's preloaded so hard.

[DirtRacer9x]

Just wonder what kind of late model chassis has an unloaded LR spring , with anything over 125 lb. of bite? I've never worked with one .Actually this is for a mod. I find late model guys know more and have more experience than most mod guys. So that's my main reasoning. Not familiar with late model chassis at all on dirt but know they usually use lift bar and pull bar rear end set ups and front end is rack and pretty much allCustom. So on late models you guys run more or less hike in lr and how do you keep it loaded still? Are bar lengths longer or shorter for you compared to lost mods I've seen 16-17 uppers and 14-15 lowers. Thanks.

[drtrkr244]

Just wonder what kind of late model chassis has an unloaded LR spring , with anything over 125 lb. of bite? I've never worked with one .

2009 Rocket blue/gray always had 3/4-1" of threads left. In fact, that was a common adj. to run down adjuster to the spring, when the track slicked off.

[setup479point2]

2009 Rocket blue/gray always had 3/4-1" of threads left. In fact, that was a common adj. to run down adjuster to the spring, when the track slicked off. Interesting , haven't yet worked with a blue/gray . Currently have a black , blue / gray must have a bit different drop . Learn something every day. So for slick you added about 70 lb. more bite .

[drtrkr244]

Interesting , haven't yet worked with a blue/gray . Currently have a black , blue / gray must have a bit different drop . Learn something every day. So for slick you added about 70 lb. more bite .

We ran that a few races but ended up running the stacked spring on the LR.

[DirtRacer9x]

So you do a stacked set up so its like a take up spring? What rates do you usually use for this set up? Ball park?

[7uptruckracer]

Don't confuse stack with a Dual Stage setup.

So you do a stacked set up so its like a take up spring? What rates do you usually use for this set up? Ball park?

[Bcollins82]

So you do a stacked set up so its like a take up spring? What rates do you usually use for this set up? Ball park?

A stack is not like a take up spring. A stack is normally a shorter, stiffer spring on top, with a free floating collar between it and the lower spring. It just makes a long, soft spring that doesn't bow like a normal long, tall spring would. You can use any combination of rates, then use the formula to calculate the rate. The formula is (spring X spring) / (spring + spring)= stacked rate, so if you have a 400 on top of a 200 it would be 200 X 400 / 200 + 400 = the stacked rate, so 80000 / 600 equals a 133.3 lb spring. That combo 400 over 200 is what Mastersbilt reccomend to us for a stacked combo back in the day.

[Bcollins82]

Well are you guys using a stacked set up or 2 stage?

Dual stage is mostly used on the RF, stack is mostly used on LR.

[7uptruckracer]

I don't know of anyone on LR stacks my way but a lot of RF AND LR Duals. To each their own.

[Bubstr]

There is no way to mimicking what the car would be doing. Simply doing travel of spring would let you know how much weight is placed onto each spring but all the ballast weight is moving as well. That's my thinking on that at least.

There is such a thing that was used by Drag racers to even out the traction in the rear. It's called a traction dyno. This is not an expencive thing. Something to tug on Chassis at center of gravity and hold backs at tires and scales.

In gear and held back by hold backs as close to tire contact spots as possible, you pull center of gravity to achieve race attitude and the scale weights will reflect weight transfer threw asymmetrical adjustments of anti squat or roll centers for a side pull. the scales reflect percentages of static and transferred weight. Changing bar locations or roll centers will change those percentages. You only scale the tires on the pulling force direction. If pulling from therear , only the rear tires are scaled. Pull from right only right sides are scaled.

The trouble is the pulling force on a LM will rotate fron front to right to rear and it's hard to get all the angles. but it could give you a understanding of where neutral is at any given point.

It's purelya measurement of weight transfer by inertia force. Not sure how i would work for a stock car, but it will make a drag car goo straight and use both rear slicks. It also levels out engine torque forces. Something to play with and make up your own mind.

don't guess center of gravity, measure it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Just wonder what kind of late model chassis has an unloaded LR spring , with anything over 125 lb. of bite? I've never worked with one .

Our Smackdown will with a lot more bite than that.

[drtrkr244]

So you do a stacked set up so its like a take up spring? What rates do you usually use for this set up? Ball park?

400/150 12inch, adj. locking collar until it touches adjuster(at ride height)

Need to have a good spanner wrench. Its a mother to get the bite/ride height set!

[Bcollins82]

400/150 12inch, adj. locking collar until it touches adjuster(at ride height)

Need to have a good spanner wrench. Its a mother to get the bite/ride height set!

What is the locking collar for if it only touches at ride height? The LR never gets back down to static ride height while racing. I can see the advantages of running a dual stage setup on the LR, just curious as to why you suggest setting the locking collar to that height?

[AmickRacing]

When the LR compresses (letting off the gas going into the corner, slowing down for traffic, avoiding wrecks etc) it will act like a normal spring (single rate of say 200 # for example) with the stop collar adjusted to just touching the primary spring.

Without it, it would act like a very soft spring, depending on what rates you have stacked, and that can cause some bad juju when the LR falls.

[Bcollins82]

When the LR compresses (letting off the gas going into the corner, slowing down for traffic, avoiding wrecks etc) it will act like a normal spring (single rate of say 200 # for example) with the stop collar adjusted to just touching the primary spring.

Without it, it would act like a very soft spring, depending on what rates you have stacked, and that can cause some bad juju when the LR falls.

Well, it won't touch getting in the corner or just going around traffic, because the car doesn't settle to static height or lower at those times. I can see where it would be helpful during an erratic move though... Seems like it would be more useful as a tuning tool than just a safeguard though.

[setup479point2]

Our Smackdown will with a lot more bite than that. Here is a lesson for all you young racers . I've been setting up race cars since 1982 , and I'm still learning every day . My set ups today are not what I did even 5 years ago . You have to be ready to change , and learn WHY you are changing the things you are on the car. I appreciate someone proving me wrong or showing me another way of doing things. Thanks Mastersbilt and Dirtkr244 for proving me wrong , and letting me learn.

[PushinTheLimit]

Just something I noticed on my car last night... I've been running my setup close to 0lbs of bite to get mine to rotate on a tight 1/3 mile high banked track. I've been using a 14" spring on the left rear with a chain limiter but, when the car goes to full hike the the chain is tight... it's off the spring. Should I consider going to a 16" spring instead and try to keep it on the spring?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Just something I noticed on my car last night... I've been running my setup close to 0lbs of bite to get mine to rotate on a tight 1/3 mile high banked track. I've been using a 14" spring on the left rear with a chain limiter but, when the car goes to full hike the the chain is tight... it's off the spring. Should I consider going to a 16" spring instead and try to keep it on the spring?

If you keep bite the same and spring rate the same, the 16" spring will be unloaded the same amount.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Here is a lesson for all you young racers . I've been setting up race cars since 1982 , and I'm still learning every day . My set ups today are not what I did even 5 years ago . You have to be ready to change , and learn WHY you are changing the things you are on the car. I appreciate someone proving me wrong or showing me another way of doing things. Thanks Mastersbilt and Dirtkr244 for proving me wrong , and letting me learn.

You are welcome. I have been at it for a long time, but not quite that long. I also am nowhere near where I was 5 years ago. And I hope I learn some new things continuously. If you don't, you get slower. I feel like I have a good grasp of the dynamics, have some different ideas, but I don't get a lot of opportunity to test. If something works well enough to run good, I have trouble moving too far from it.

[Matt49]

If you keep bite the same and spring rate the same, the 16" spring will be unloaded the same amount.

That is correct. The only way you're going to get the spring to stay loaded longer with the same bite number is to use a softer spring.

[PushinTheLimit]

Thanks guys... I plan to go with a 200lb LR rather than the 225lb that I've been using and see how that feels this weekend.

[drtrkr244]

What is the locking collar for if it only touches at ride height? The LR never gets back down to static ride height while racing. I can see the advantages of running a dual stage setup on the LR, just curious as to why you suggest setting the locking collar to that height?

That was a starting point given to me from Rocket. Plus I was concerned the car would get too tight on entry with that soft of a spring rate. It made a drastic difference in drive, as I found out, I had to continually free the car, unlike before where I was tightening the car up during the night.

[Bcollins82]

That was a starting point given to me from Rocket. Plus I was concerned the car would get too tight on entry with that soft of a spring rate. It made a drastic difference in drive, as I found out, I had to continually free the car, unlike before where I was tightening the car up during the night.

Yeah, the old Mastersbilt car that we tried it on had a ton more drive too.. But as far as the locking collar location, having it set to touch at ride height shouldn't affect your entry because it wouldn't be setting down far enough to touch the locking collar at that point? Did your car come all the way back down to static ride height on the LR on entry? Did you ever try to run the collar down so it used the bottom spring more as the car sat down, and so it didn't have as much preload at full hike?

[setup479point2]

Actually this is for a mod. I find late model guys know more and have more experience than most mod guys. So that's my main reasoning. Not familiar with late model chassis at all on dirt but know they usually use lift bar and pull bar rear end set ups and front end is rack and pretty much allCustom. So on late models you guys run more or less hike in lr and how do you keep it loaded still? Are bar lengths longer or shorter for you compared to lost mods I've seen 16-17 uppers and 14-15 lowers. Thanks. Just so you know , I think most mod rules state one spring per corner . So all the stacked , duel spring stuff isn't gonna help you.

[Bcollins82]

Just so you know , I think most mod rules state one spring per corner . So all the stacked , duel spring stuff isn't gonna help you.

Unless he races UMP... Then he could throw a cover on, and make sure his body measures correctly and nobody would ever look. I've seen several UMP cars run dual springs on the RR without anyone blinking.

[SuperEight]

If you simply turn say 3 turns into the lr and at full hike you're off the spring say 1/2" and the 3 turns reduced that gap to 1/8" nothing has changed on throttle... This is what I'm trying to clarify.Why does it have to be off the spring? The fast guys are NOT off the spring... Are you familiar with the fact a race car works in an, "X"?

[DirtRacer9x]

I know plenty of fast guys off of the spring...

[MachineMasters]

Once you hit the chain or limit strap, it does not matter if you have 300lbs of preload in the LR spring or zero preload - the car will not be any different, until the LR starts to go back into compression.

[DirtRacer9x]

Once you hit the chain or limit strap, it does not matter if you have 300lbs of preload in the LR spring or zero preload - the car will not be any different, until the LR starts to go back into compression.Exactly my thoughts as well. But from hiked to not hiked would you have more or less instant traction? The overall result does not change at all dynamically but statically it does.