nitrogen in tires

[fast hot rod]

I was wondering if guys where running nitrogen in stead of air in there tires??

[DirtRacer9x]

I can guarantee you the winner of any big race is or other gasses. There are a few different things used. Depends what you want to accomplish though.

[DirtRacer9x]

That means there is a lot left on the table then. After a dry slicked off feature what are your tires inflated to?

[LITE-INN]

I run air and I won night one of the Jackson Nationals this year as well as top 6 at pretty much ever special around my area from Iowa to Kansas and in between the last 6 weeks.

I race with Abelson and Sobbing pretty much every time out, Abelson won the Clash at Knoxville, as well as 28 or 29 other features about the same for sobbing.. both run AIR.

Ive only been in probably 25 big races this year and I would bet less than 3 of them were won with anything other than air in a IMCA modified. I ran nitrogen when it was free and I ran pavement for 10 years, but mainly because I didn't have a generator or air compressor.

I think you are full of hot air just kidding

[Krooser]

I have never bought into that nitrogen deal… the air we breath is 78% nitrogen to begin with… can't imagine another 22% is going to produce miracles. But I've been wrong before… just ask my wife.

[Confused?]

The nitrogen is dry. Compressed air has moisture in it. The moisture(water) expands more when heated. That's the reason for the nitrogen. I've used it often when I raced on asphalt. It make a big difference there. Don't know of anyone using it on dirt.

[fast hot rod]

I ran on a real dry slick track last weekend and the car was real good running up front for bout 5 laps then just falls off and I checked the tire pressure right after the race and both rear tires where 10 pounds higher

[Confused?]

If both rear tires are growing that much, you need to learn throttle control. That's from spinning the tires.

[DirtRacer9x]

Don't worry about my pressure, I merely pointed out that you haven't got a clue, most of us run air.. I race mostly BIG specials with ALL the big names pretty much every time out. Even when I go to weekly shows in my area there are at least 2-3 past national champions racing against me and guys that have accumulated hundreds of wins.If you're not using something besides air you're not as consistent as you can be. I can GUARANTEE that. So before you start thinking you're the baddest and faster guy here you better work on your consistency program because its definitely lacking 👍

[Confused?]

Section 14: TIRES AND WHEELS: .....Rim-mounted bleeder valves allowed.


Straight from the IMCA Modified rules.
No real reason to spend the extra time and money. For Nitrogen to be 100% effective, the tires should be mounted with it and never use compressed air to fill them.

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I stay with compressed air because I can adjust it quickly and it's more more convenient that having to carry around a bottle.

[DirtRacer9x]

I ran on a real dry slick track last weekend and the car was real good running up front for bout 5 laps then just falls off and I checked the tire pressure right after the race and both rear tires where 10 pounds higherOh don't worry Hot Rod you're doing better than Jeff Joldersma. When he raced at Stuart this idiot fell off over a half second and is still wondering why. He had at least 10psi more in the rears. This guy is slacking and thinks he is the baddest guy out there. Sorry buddy go get some other type of gas andmake sure it says "thanks to dirtracer9x I'm more consistent" 👍😂

[DirtRacer9x]

Congrats. Now maybe you should figure out why your car gives up so much time so fast. Consistency obviously isn't apart of your program.

[Anonymous24]

There are bleed off valves that compensate for air pressure gains.

[hughesracing9]

run air here, but have two water separators mounted in line from compressor to hose reel.
I empty about 1/2 a cup or water every month or so between the two canisters

[72Dubya]

Nitrogen on a dirt track has no use, not even on a slick track. Tried it and it didn't gain us much. With compressed air straight from trailer compressor we only had a .5 psi gain on a very slick and dry track on both rears, and nitrogen was about half that, so .25 psi. I do not think that will make or break you. That isn't even enough to grow a tire.

Just wasted money on snake oil. PSI gains come mostly from poor throttle control, getting too sideways on a slick track, and spinning the tires down the straights.

[7uptruckracer]

It DOESN'T matter what you use. I consult with many asphalt AND dirt teams. What does matter is if you know where your RACING your tires. If you know you gain 4psi from Nitrogen as compared to 8psi vs Compressed air you can compensate to make sure once your in racing conditions your stagger and tire is performing how you want it. Why do you think the NASCAR boys can kill a Qualifying run with to low or pressures and why they start off race runs with low pressure or why if they have a late caution and pit the don't start off with pressure that would be for a longer full tire run. TEST take Cold PSI and Hot PSI sizes compare everything. Bleeders help you just have to be careful if you make a hot adjustment. Stop cutting people down on here a lot of use can post pedigrees or resumes but that's not the point some of us here just want to share information and help someone who wants help run better.

Nitrogen on a dirt track has no use, not even on a slick track. Tried it and it didn't gain us much. With compressed air straight from trailer compressor we only had a .5 psi gain on a very slick and dry track on both rears, and nitrogen was about half that, so .25 psi. I do not think that will make or break you. That isn't even enough to grow a tire.

Just wasted money on snake oil. PSI gains come mostly from poor throttle control, getting too sideways on a slick track, and spinning the tires down the straights.

[DirtRacer9x]

It DOESN'T matter what you use. I consult with many asphalt AND dirt teams. What does matter is if you know where your RACING your tires. If you know you gain 4psi from Nitrogen as compared to 8psi vs Compressed air you can compensate to make sure once your in racing conditions your stagger and tire is performing how you want it. Why do you think the NASCAR boys can kill a Qualifying run with to low or pressures and why they start off race runs with low pressure or why if they have a late caution and pit the don't start off with pressure that would be for a longer full tire run. TEST take Cold PSI and Hot PSI sizes compare everything. Bleeders help you just have to be careful if you make a hot adjustment. Stop cutting people down on here a lot of use can post pedigrees or resumes but that's not the point some of us here just want to share information and help someone who wants help run better.72Dubya puts absolutely no heat in his tires at all. That's what he just explained.

[7uptruckracer]

I answered the original question I'm not sure why it pulled the quote I didn't think I clicked it. A cold tire is either the wrong compound, grooving, siping, or not checked immediately. Every compound has a different heat range you can check the manfacturer but to say someone is losing races because they are on compressed air is asinine. When at race temp and pressure they tire doesn't know what gas is in it. the error factor is the human working on it not the gas thats in it. If you don't account for buildup thats your own fault.

72Dubya puts absolutely no heat in his tires at all. That's what he just explained.

[DirtRacer9x]

I answered the original question I'm not sure why it pulled the quote I didn't think I clicked it. A cold tire is either the wrong compound, grooving, siping, or not checked immediately. Every compound has a different heat range you can check the manfacturer but to say someone is losing races because they are on compressed air is asinine. When at race temp and pressure they tire doesn't know what gas is in it. the error factor is the human working on it not the gas thats in it. If you don't account for buildup thats your own fault.Go tell a cup team to go run compressed air 👍

[UltimateRaceCars]

When I raced asphalt I saw a significant difference between air and nitrogen. Like others have stated on dirt it doesnt seem to make a whole lot of difference. I think what kind of lubricant you use to mount your tires makes a bigger difference. The end goal is to have the least amount of moisture inside your mounted tire regardless of what gas you are using.

[7uptruckracer]

Cup is its own animal for reasons that have nothing to do with a dirt late model/ modified and quite frankly a cop out statement someone uses when their argument is shattered. They run a tire constructed totally different, dirt doesn't see the heat and buildup a Saturday night short track asphalt racer sees. Compressed air will not kill someones night, if you have the funds use nitrogen, if not their are many ways to get equal results on asphalt or dirt for your weekly racer.

Go tell a cup team to go run compressed air 

[DirtRacer9x]

Nitrogen is used for cars driven daily on the street to keep the pressure from fluctuating as well. The point is it is used to keep something on the car more "CONSISTENT". If you want things changing on your car run compressed air. If you want one thing to take out of he equation there are different gasses out to maintain pressures a lot better than compressed air. Lets see how trying to keep something more "CONSISTENT" is a "cop out". 👍

[DirtRacer9x]

Its advertised for use by tire shops as a gimmick to prey on the uneducated and milk them for more money... Everyone with a lick of common sense knows this.You couldn't be more wrong. You're uneduatced my friend. You stay at your dirt level with your hobby stock and 4 banger knowledge and leave he real engineers to knowing exactly why things are done certain ways. Also, schooling you right now they use nitrogen for the tire sensors so they do not fluctuate drastically from exteeme temperature changes. Now go get that bottle filled and make sure you thank me when you don't start sucking so bad after 5 laps in the dry. We will all be watching for that Nitrogen bottle.

[ric78]

We run nitrogen in our tires. It does help with keeping the pressures more consistent over compressed air. Now do I think it is the only reason we win consistently? Of coarse not. Not getting in the middle of a good argument but my approach to racing is this. If something helps even the smallest of gains why would you not use it? Everyone has all the big things it is the little things and the attention to the smallest of details that separate the good from the best.

[Spbulldog]

You couldn't be more wrong. You're uneduatced my friend. You stay at your dirt level with your hobby stock and 4 banger knowledge and leave he real engineers to knowing exactly why things are done certain ways. Also, schooling you right now they use nitrogen for the tire sensors so they do not fluctuate drastically from exteeme temperature changes. Now go get that bottle filled and make sure you thank me when you don't start sucking so bad after 5 laps in the dry. We will all be watching for that Nitrogen bottle. Ok. In street tires it has nothing to do with tpms. Hell Chrysler doesn't even use tpms sensors on most cars. It's abt holding consistent pressure to reduce tire wear. And in NASCAR they use it because of the moisture content. Most compressed air is 17 % moisture content where nitrogen is around 12 and that could mean a 1-2 psi change in pressure between two.and 1-2 psi in NASCAR makes a big diff when running on asphalt which makes more heat anyway. In dirt it's abt a 50/50 shot either way. The track doesn't hold as much heat as asphalt and u aren't running 200mph for high lap counts so the tires don't make as much heat. Unless you ARE spinning hell outta your tires which then it really isn't a problem, it's the fool on the throttle causing the pressure changes

[DirtRacer9x]

We run nitrogen in our tires. It does help with keeping the pressures more consistent over compressed air. Now do I think it is the only reason we win consistently? Of coarse not. Not getting in the middle of a good argument but my approach to racing is this. If something helps even the smallest of gains why would you not use it? Everyone has all the big things it is the little things and the attention to the smallest of details that separate the good from the best.You my friend nailed it on the head. Words from someone wise and not this idiot Jeff Joldersma. This is why he won't EVER go anywhere. But we will be watching for the Nitrogen bottle haha. Everyone watch him and his pit for it.

[DirtRacer9x]

Ok. In street tires it has nothing to do with tpms. Hell Chrysler doesn't even use tpms sensors on most cars. It's abt holding consistent pressure to reduce tire wear. And in NASCAR they use it because of the moisture content. Most compressed air is 17 % moisture content where nitrogen is around 12 and that could mean a 1-2 psi change in pressure between two.and 1-2 psi in NASCAR makes a big diff when running on asphalt which makes more heat anyway. In dirt it's abt a 50/50 shot either way. The track doesn't hold as much heat as asphalt and u aren't running 200mph for high lap counts so the tires don't make as much heat. Unless you ARE spinning hell outta your tires which then it really isn't a problem, it's the fool on the throttle causing the pressure changesIt's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try  Yes it does have to do with the tire pressure monitoring sensors. They also use it as a sale gimmick to all cars but the sensors would go off more saying warning and activate the stability control on cars once they drop usually 10psi low or te sensors crack.

[Spbulldog]

It's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try  Yes that too is another factor. So drive er in hot and slow er up fast and watch those tire pressures

[Spbulldog]

It's actually the brakes causing more heat but nice try  Yes it does have to do with the tire pressure monitoring sensors. They also use it as a sale gimmick to all cars but the sensors would go off more saying warning and activate the stability control on cars once they drop usually 10psi low or te sensors crack. You have no clue. Tpms isn't even linked to stability control, except for a few Chrysler vehicles that use abs wheel speed sensors to determine low tire pressure. All tpms does is activate a light/ warning when pressure drops 3-5 % mandated by gov. On all model yrs in 2008 . If u think temp change affects those sensors enough to where u need nitrogen to keep them from cracking because of a few % difference in moisture factor I urge you to talk to someone in extreme cold weather climates wher in winter it gets to -25 or better. Your reasoning would make it that they have to change sensors every day because of temp changes. And going from 32 degrees at morning startup to 150 or so because of breaking heat would that not crack them nitrogen or not? Your explanation doesn't hold water at all. And this is coming to you from an ASE cert. master tech A1-A8. L1. X1 P1 for 11 yrs now.

[Spbulldog]

And how would you know the tires have been filled with nitrogen??? Any guesses?

[Spbulldog]

Oh, and by the way....they used compressed air in automobiles for over 100 yrs. it works just fine. Even with TPMS

[DirtRacer9x]

You're a "mechanic" ASE certified so you just fix things. I won't go into to much detail on how I know these things but its not from a mechanics stand point but from more of working with the engineers and testing. But you as the ASE mechanic can change out all the sensors when they come in. Hey one day you should go take a bad sensor on say a GM car and go drive it on the street around a corner at a decent speed and try and tell us all how stability doesn't work with it when it's using the brakes(not lightly either) tryin to keep the car straight. The face you'll make 😳followed by the thought ,"Dirt racer9x was right"😳Barking up the wrong tree here buddy. Stick to repairing them👍Ya Jeff keep on diggin were all watching little guy. 👍

[Spbulldog]

You're a "mechanic" ASE certified so you just fix things. I won't go into to much detail on how I know these things but its not from a mechanics stand point but from more of working with the engineers and testing. But you as the ASE mechanic can change out all the sensors when they come in. Hey one day you should go take a bad sensor on say a GM car and go drive it on the street around a corner at a decent speed and try and tell us all how stability doesn't work with it when it's using the brakes(not lightly either) tryin to keep the car straight. The face you'll make followed by the thought ,"Dirt racer9x was right"Barking up the wrong tree here buddy. Stick to repairing themYa Jeff keep on diggin were all watching little guy.  You're either drunk,high,or just plain stupid! Maybe YOU should go get your family dr to let's say check you for a concussion or maybe a psychological test. Maybe find all those engineeres you talk abt an tell them u need help getting your cheese back on your cracker because it's slid way off! You're absolutely crazy!

[Spbulldog]

Directly from GM..Here is what GM says about the use of Nitrogen in tires: GM's Position on the Use of nitrogen Gas in Tires (From GM's document #05-03-10-020C: Use of nitrogen Gas in Tires - Apr 27, 2010) General Motors does not oppose the use of purified nitrogen as an inflation gas for tires. We expect the theoretical benefits to be reduced in practical use due to the lack of an existing infrastructure to continuously facilitate inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen.... Given those theoretical benefits, practical limitations, and the robust design of GM original equipment TPC tires, the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal. The Promise of Nitrogen: Under Controlled Conditions ...The use of nitrogen gas to inflate tires is a technology used in automobile racing. The following benefits under controlled conditions are attributed to nitrogen gas and its unique properties: • A reduction in the expected loss of Tire Pressure over time. • A reduction in the variance of Tire Pressures with temperature changes due to reduction of water vapor concentration. • A reduction of long term rubber degradation due to a decrease in oxygen concentrations. Important: These are obtainable performance improvements when relatively pure nitrogen gas is used to inflate tires under controlled conditions. Where does it state ANYTHING abt tire pressure sensors??

[Spbulldog]

And for the guy that sent me the message abt corvette and Cameros linked stability control and tpms.....when tpms light comes ON. Stability control goes OFF via the traction control system. The 2 are NOT directly linked

[Anonymous24]

The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen. If we air our tires with compressed Nitrogen, even after the purge process, the average maximum amount of Nitrogen is 90% per tire. Even with 90% Nitrogen in a particular tire, there is still 10% of regular compressed air. That 10% still has moisture content. It is the moisture that plays havoc on the air pressure gains/losses. It is more efficient to use dry air rather than Nitrogen. Thanks

[Spbulldog]

The air we breath is 78% Nitrogen. If we air our tires with compressed Nitrogen, even after the purge process, the average maximum amount of Nitrogen is 90% per tire. Even with 90% Nitrogen in a particular tire, there is still 10% of regular compressed air. That 10% still has moisture content. It is the moisture that plays havoc on the air pressure gains/losses. It is more efficient to use dry air rather than Nitrogen. Thanks Anonymous is correct. Even GM says the "benefits are minimal" of filling tires with nitrogen. Just make sure to keep your compressor drained and that u have a good dryer on the compressor and it should be ok.

[Lizardracing]

Has anyone done any frictional testing between the two? What about atom size? Perhaps there's a leakage issue not addressed yet that proves beneficial on passenger cars. Perhaps there are other reasons Cup Teams and some NHRA Top Fuel teams are using nitrogen besides pressure build up. What the temp gradiant on a cup team car? Ambient to <300'f? Compare that to a typical dirt car of around 150'.

Many Cup teams also use nitrogen to power the air tools. It's common in off roading and trail riding as well. The benefits are a smaller tank that gets the job done but doesn't need extra equipment like an air compressor or electrical requirements to operate. Perhaps this is part of the equation.

[zeroracing]

Honest question dirtracer9x, are you an engineer? Not trying to start a discussion n using nitrogen or not just asking.

[Anonymous24]

This thread surely makes it clear what the green or red colored rectangles represent.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

If you want dry air in your tires, go to a auto body supply store or look online for paint gun bulb filters that screw on paint guns and install it right before your air chuck. These remove all moisture and oil that comes out of compressors. Been using them for 20+ years painting cars as i didn't want to spend several hundred to several thousand dollars on air dryers and oil seperators in my shop. Works for me. JMO

[Anonymous24]

If you want dry air in your tires, go to a auto body supply store or look online for paint gun bulb filters that screw on paint guns and install it right before your air chuck. These remove all moisture and oil that comes out of compressors. Been using them for 20+ years painting cars as i didn't want to spend several hundred to several thousand dollars on air dryers and oil seperators in my shop. Works for me. JMOExcellent advice right here. Thank you for sharing.

[Spbulldog]

Those do work great. I have them on my impact and air ratchets

[oldtrackchamp4x]

The ones I use are made by Motor Guard. My local Napa store has them as does Advanced Auto Parts. I'm pretty sure most parts stores can get them.JMO.