Bearing Spacers

[Matt49]

Like these:
http://store.drpperformance.com/bearing-spacer-wide-five-lw-aluminum-adjustable/

These have been out for a while and I like the idea of it but I'm having trouble convincing myself there is $200 worth of speed here. What do you all think?

[fastford]

I got 4 of these in an allotment I bought a few years back and never used them , I could never understand how they could do what they say, now the part about reducing drag and heat caused by over tightening I can understand, but if you know how to properly set the preload, I cant see where they will help on a tapered cone type bearing , maybe someone on here knows something about them ? ....

[keeks]

I think they can help extend the life of the hubs as well by evenly distributing lateral forces equally between both bearings.

[Kwoods25]

A few guys I run with have em. I don't see any need in them, but they seem to think they are worth it

[Brian Gray]

They keep the bearings loaded and hold them true in the race. Helps some with wear.

[TheJet-09]

A steel version was on my car when I bought it so I left them on there. Seems like a decent idea, but I don't know how you could measure any specific performance advantage over not having them.

[fastford]

I think they can help extend the life of the hubs as well by evenly distributing lateral forces equally between both bearings.

I would think that on a cone style brg, all the lateral force would be on the outside brg, by the way, if you preload a cone brg 5 to 8 inch lbs , at temperature , they will be close to 0 , I still cant see an advantage.

[Lizardracing]

The only person going faster is the person selling them.

Your brake pads rubbing the rotors create more friction then tapered bearings spacers eliminate. How come some one isn't making them for the rear hubs yet? Think of all the HP your could save by doing the rear and the front!

By the way....A roller bearing(non needle bearing type) had less frictional losses for those who are chasing friction.

[Lizardracing]

According to Timken bearing manufacture here are the valued torque(Nmm) for tapered roller bearings of the appropriate size

The bearing friction torque Mr = F . fm . (Dm/2)
(friction values below marked with ***)

Mr = Friction torque (Nmm)
F = Radial (or axial load) (N)
f = coefficient of friction of rolling bearing .
fm = coefficient of friction of rolling bearing based on mean diameter
d = Diameter of the bore of the bearing (Shaft diameter)(mm)
D = Outside diameter of the bearing (mm)
Dm = (d+D)/2 (mm)

These values relate to running bearings without seals and with optimum lubrication..
The start-up friction values will be higher -up to twice the values quoted below..

Single row ball bearing (radial Load) ..f = 0,0015
Angular contact ball bearing (single row) ..f = 0,0020
Angular contact ball bearing (double row) ..f = 0,0024
Self aligning ball bearing (radial load) ..f = 0,0010
Cylindrical roller bearings with cage ..f = 0,0011
Cylindrical roller bearings full complement ..f = 0,0020
Thrust ball bearing (axial load) ..f = 0,0013
Spherical roller bearing (radial Load) ..f = 0,0018
___Taper roller bearings ..f = 0,0018____
Needle roller bearings-with cage ..fm = 0,003
Needle roller ball bearings-full Complement ..fm = 0,005
Combined needle roller bearings ..fm = 0,004
Axial Needle roller ball bearings ..fm = 0,0035
Axial Cylindrical roller bearings ..fm = 0,0035

.0018 Nmm to torque= 0.0013276118686986 ft pounds.

[hpmaster]

If you make a practice reefing on your 1/2" Craftsman ratchet to set preload, as shown in the clip, you deserve to be relieved of $200.00.

[FlatTire]

Until I can flat foot my car all around the race track and use 100% of the power available to me, I don't think I'll worry about things like this! Think my money would be best spent visiting the tire man!

Here's another question to ask yourself.......in the name of fuel consumption and stringent fuel mileage standards, why aren't the automakers using these in production vehicles?

Ask the guy if he did any testing and you want to see some data.

[hpmaster]

U buy these once. Better investment than tires

Auto makers r use these basically. Unit beg r roller brg units no prescription load like a tapered brg. Same with fwd cv hubs etc. No tapered brgs. Been that way for years and years.

So if you can reduce friction with a newer/better design bearing, like the OEM car makers are doing per you, why hasn't someone developed it?

[hpmaster]

I hope your kidding with that question?

This thread is about doing the same thing via the spacers. And several places they sell roller brgs for rear hubs, I been running them also for years. They r advertised as angular contact brgs in some catalogs.

No I was thinking more along the line of a sealed unit bearing, sry if I was confused.

[FlatTire]

Stockcar, didn't realize that. Yep my truck is a 2003. No sealed bearing assemblies. Maybe wilwood should come up with a $400 sealed low-drag bearing hub assembly and sell more parts!

[Lizardracing]

It would helpful if you guys discussed facts instead of strawman arguments.

Roller bearing are a poor performer at side loading. Angular contact (aka tapered roller) bearings were designed specifically for side loading and vertical load handing like holding up the car and steering at the same time.

Sealed roller bearings have a higher coefficient of friction. See my post above for facts.

Production cars have to weigh price with performance and logetivity. Manufactures favor price and longitivity over performance. Race cars favor performance over price. Longitivity is barely considered.
Just because something isn't main stream doesn't mean it hasn't been developed. Sometimes its price, sometimes it's marketing, sometimes it's design, patents, all kinds of things have to happen for something to become main stream.

[MBR Performance]

Give it a few years and they probably will.

[fastford]

these things are only running on the inner race, to me all they are is an easy way to take hub on and off a lot and maintain a consistent pre load , if you know how to properly set them to start with, but im going to play with one I have on an old spindle just to satisfy my curiosity.

[fastford]

According to Timken bearing manufacture here are the valued torque(Nmm) for tapered roller bearings of the appropriate size

The bearing friction torque Mr = F . fm . (Dm/2)
(friction values below marked with ***)

Mr = Friction torque (Nmm)
F = Radial (or axial load) (N)
f = coefficient of friction of rolling bearing .
fm = coefficient of friction of rolling bearing based on mean diameter
d = Diameter of the bore of the bearing (Shaft diameter)(mm)
D = Outside diameter of the bearing (mm)
Dm = (d+D)/2 (mm)

These values relate to running bearings without seals and with optimum lubrication..
The start-up friction values will be higher -up to twice the values quoted below..

Single row ball bearing (radial Load) ..f = 0,0015
Angular contact ball bearing (single row) ..f = 0,0020
Angular contact ball bearing (double row) ..f = 0,0024
Self aligning ball bearing (radial load) ..f = 0,0010
Cylindrical roller bearings with cage ..f = 0,0011
Cylindrical roller bearings full complement ..f = 0,0020
Thrust ball bearing (axial load) ..f = 0,0013
Spherical roller bearing (radial Load) ..f = 0,0018
___Taper roller bearings ..f = 0,0018____
Needle roller bearings-with cage ..fm = 0,003
Needle roller ball bearings-full Complement ..fm = 0,005
Combined needle roller bearings ..fm = 0,004
Axial Needle roller ball bearings ..fm = 0,0035
Axial Cylindrical roller bearings ..fm = 0,0035

.0018 Nmm to torque= 0.0013276118686986 ft pounds.

I don't know about Timken , I just do it the way coleman told me to 20 years ago and never had a problem

[stockcar5]

Your brake pads rubbing the rotors create more friction then tapered bearings spacers eliminate. How come some one isn't making them for the rear hubs yet? Think of all the HP your could save by doing the rear and the front!

You mean like this?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DRP-Performance-10518-Grand-National-Rear-Hub-Bearing-Spacer,94120.html

[Lizardracing]

You mean like this?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/DRP-Performance-10518-Grand-National-Rear-Hub-Bearing-Spacer,94120.html

I was trying to be facetious.

[zeroracing]

Rolling resistance is extremely flat if you graph it vs speed. Wind resistance is exponential. This has been shown in many engineering vehicle design books. Now assuming it is basically flat how hard ia your car to push, the component from rolling resistance is that hard at 5, 25, and 100 mph. All of that said my car seems to pull itself from a dead stop without issues, so therefore I don't see the need for these until I get enough grip to big down the motor all the time and buy everything else I can think of. That said a bigger gain could be had working to make a body as smooth as possible and reduce drag, which at the speeds of 95% of our race tracks is still much less than the power an open car produces.


All of that said if they gave me better bearing life, which I don't have issues with, or I needed a car easier to push by myself it is something...

[fastford]

short posts, as Im on my phone, had knee replaced tue so lots of free time!

good luck with that knee , my buddy had a full replacement a few years back, went thru he!! for 6 months , but after he finaly recovered, its the best thing he ever did. oh by the way , be careful posting on them meds, sometimes things are typed a little different than you meant... lol

[stockcar5]

Angular contact (aka tapered roller) bearings were designed specifically for side loading and vertical load handing like holding up the car and steering at the same time.

FWIW angular contact and tapered roller are not the same. But maybe you were being facetious again?

[Lizardracing]

You are correct kind sir. I stand..errr...sit corrected.

[cjsracing]

I use these and it was a night and day difference when rolling the car around. That for me is a big deal because most of the time I am the only one working on my car at the shop.