Narrowing front end

[washeduptoo]

At the Duel in the Desert, there was a problem with some chassis with the stamped front end. It appears it was narrowed, what is the benefit of doing that and is that being checked on a regular basis? Thanks

[DirtRacer9x]

What chassis?

[anissa5]

more weight tranfer

[QQQQ]

If they are checking for the Rt frame rail being rolled up to provide clearance, the next best thing is to leave it in the stock location and pull it in by narrowing the chassis somewhere else. Anything to keep those soft spring setups from pounding the ground with the frame rail.

[washeduptoo]

That's what I was told, not what I saw so I won't say chassis but it was several during pretech that had failed. I was thinking it was to keep rf from digging into the track and that's is what I was told by others too. Might be several chassis doing this since the turned up rf frame rail was outlawed a few years back. Thanks

[andy29]

it was a combination of how they were turning the aftermarket clips and using aftermarket new lowers that very 3/4" where the lower ball joint location is. stock stuff passed tech with no issues even if they were turned within specs

[Confused?]

At Abilene this year, they measured in between the front horns. Where the idler arm and steering box mounts. Don't know if anybody got DQed or not tho.

[washeduptoo]

Thanks for the information, my information wasn't quite right it appears but there was a narrowing of frame rails I guess. That is why I wouldn't say chassis builder, could be a lot of chassis builders out of IMCA specs on that. I guess that would still not let rf frame rail dig into track to take the place of the turned up frame rail? Thanks again for the information.

[gjohnson]

If the name of your chassis starts with G and ends with T you have a problem. Better call them up.

[charcoal01]

Tried three different a arms on my shaw, all put me at a little over 3/4 of an inch too long
It's not just grt.

[DirtRacer9x]

Tried three different a arms on my shaw, all put me at a little over 3/4 of an inch too long It's not just grt.Wheel base or track width? What measurement?

[charcoal01]

Balljoint to body mount measurement is supposed to be 18 3/8th with a maximum variance of half inch, so 18 7/8ths is the max. My car when first measured was 19 7/8ths. I had three spares including one deemed to be correct, which the "correct" one only got me to 19 1/2. Had to egg the heck out of the holes and weld washers on in order to be close enough. It's one thing to show up with a car you know you've cheated and have to fix it, it's another to believe you've bought a legal chassis only to find out otherwise and have to spend 4 hours in a pit fixing it so you can race. Pretty disappointing.

[charcoal01]

I've got a shaw. It didn't seem to hurt the performance too much after I reset the front end. Grt and shaw seemed to be the chassis everyone was fixing.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

Charcoal, i had to do the exact same thing to my car. Took a hard hit after doing fix so i am just going to put on a new shaw front clip as several measurements are not to speck. Sure hope i don't have to do same to new clip. On another note when they measure at tech make sure a straight edge is put down thru hole and is at 90 deg so when they measure from zirt back, tape is level as there is a lot of difference if it isn't. JMO

[RaceTechKs]

Let me help with this frame question, Pay attention STOCK CAR DRIVER. Because again the great tech at **** misses another frame problem. Yes a few years back "I" was the one who got the whole raised frame rail issue started when it was brought out in the open. And had more then one Chassis Manufacture that was not happy with me. That happened almost five years ago now. Now that all the fabricated frames have came into play the Chassis Manufactures just could not help themselves by leaving well enough alone, Now you guys ask why these fellas were all moving A-Arms back in the cars.......yes to the rear. Its not because the lower mounts were moved forward its because the frame has been notched in the center of the cross member and the entire right frame rail pulled in on the right side, which in turn moves the hole for the Lower Ball Joint placement back causing the measurement to be to long. So really they moved the A-Arm backwards but needed to move the entire rear frame rail back out. Why has this been done, because it gives more clearance for roll in the car on the right front.....does the same thing as rolling the frame up. Lets them run the 400 lb spring in the front and not get the frame in the dirt. To see if yours is turned in just measure the body mount holes on the frame, "T" on the chassis chart. We started looking at this at the beginning of this year. We looked at a lot of cars, and that is not all that has been found. I can tell you now this will get will get worse before it gets better. And no Im not saying what Chassis they are...

[RaceTechKs]

See I knew you would say something like that, Because its something you know nothing about. Do just a little home work and just check it out. You know sometimes there are others that do know more about something then you do. And so you know there have been several frames measured and YES they are moved, measured them myself and others who have measures them found the same exact thing I did. Tell you what, because you know more then a bunch of people I know, just call a few chassis builders and see what you learn, then get back to me and let me know if I was right.............When you do learn, The words are "Im Sorry you were right" LOL. Off to school you go..

[DirtRacer9x]

Haha he has an illegal car ^^^. Just sayin 👍BTW hood luck selling illegal cars. Never liked GRT and never will for more than that reason. Greed

[mod11h]

i guess the best thing about it that its getting teched and people are getting caught. Even if it was not know to them who bought the chassis. It lets people know who like to bend the rules just to sell cars. I would be pissed if what i bought was illegal and i didn't know about it.

[DirtRacer9x]

Im not sure what I do to get all these loyal dips (fans) like ^^ and race productskkk as well as the others who seem to mainly post wanting to prove me wrong as if theres some big prize out there for the person who does that??!!Awww you missed me so you unblocked me ☺. That's love right there.

[DirtRacer9x]

"You're", you uneducated CA pu$$

[RaceTechKs]

Stock Car Driver: Im not a fan, Im not here to just prove you wrong. It just amazes me that every time there's a post on here your are the only one with the correct answers. Any one else that post on the same topic that might even come close to making a statement that tests what you think you know, gets pounced on by you......Its just like the turning in of the frame rails....Yes I know they turned in the left and the right side, but you made a big deal out of (what the hell did they gain by turning in the left, so it wont dig into the dirt) No and we both know that. The reason they did both side is so it would be harder to see with just your eye. Could you imagine what that frame would look like if they only moved in the right side two inches, Hell even Ray Charles could see that. But knowing the reason was to gain ground clearance on the right so it don't dig into the track. So we both know why they did it.........Now Im going to be YOU for just a second.......And the rules say in all the sanctions Im pretty sure...."UNALTERED OEM/STOCK FRAME" So in my opinion if you own a GRT that has been narrowed "and you admitted to that" then the only way your car will be legal to race is if the Cross Member is replaced and nothing less then that can be done.....Because the cross member itself is where is was notched and bent in, so that's what has been altered.......Now do you agree with that...??????? So Im asking an honest question, How are you going to repair yours?????

[DirtRacer9x]

Send your POS, cheater, flexi, re clip, one hit wonder chassis back to GRT and quit racing shelve stocker. No one likes you and I'm sure someone would whoop up on your a$$ if this were the good ole days. Oh btw Stocky Boy is a cheater. Not because he thinks he's fast but because he's cheating with an "Altered" frame. GRT and stocky cr@p are a perfect match. Take pi$$ and $hit and you flush it down. That is all 😘👍✌

[DirtRacer9x]

They have a gossip section for this.Thanks for being a fan and knowing where I resided prior to 1991! Talk about a loyal fanboy!!Aww he unblocked me again 😍

[RaceTechKs]

Ok...What ever Stock Car, I will tell you this, Fact...Strait from GRT, If you have one of the last 525 cars built before November of this year, YOUR cars have been Narrowed, Notched, "Vd", Altered, Changed or what ever in the cross member, but you call it what you want if it that makes you feel better about what's been done. I know your a BY THE RULES GUY, so the bottom line STILL IS, unless you replace the entire cross member or cut it back apart and replace what's been removed from the frame, Its is illegal. And YES Your right....I have not been in your shop and measured nothing....So I don't know for a fact that your cars are narrow.....But this I know, I know, you don't run old outdated cars and yours a fairly new if not brand new and that there newer then 2010 cars,,,,,,, So if I were to bet money on it, You have to fix your cars too. So I will leave you to tell everyone how much you know on everything that gets posted on here and tell everyone else haw stupid they are.....But be rest assured when it comes to this frame rail problem I do know more about whats happening with it then you do. But that's ok, you tell everyone what ever make you out to be Mister Know it All....its Ok.......LMFAO, I love the off season...

[DirtRacer9x]

Haha wait till the next big show when that narrowed front end doesn't pass. Stock car had an illegal chassis for sale any takers? He wants full price for a car you can't race too. Maybe next race ill be sure to tech your car myself. Start cutting and grinding those nice new chassis up and fix what's illegal haha

[RaceTechKs]

Well you just proved my point, If you believe what Joe is telling you. You believe what the government tells you too don't you. He told us he did not know anything about what we were talking about...I quote, "I did not know the frame jigs had been changed" "I will look into it and get it corrected" And that is strait from Joes mouth. You expect ANYONE to believe that for a second your a fool if you do. He knew they had been changed, he owns the business. And for a guy who knew what was happening and so willing to help with answers NOT ONE TIME in any of your posts did you come clean on how this was being done by notching the center of the cross-member....WHY???? because you did not know neither, but you sure let on like you did..... I could take this farther, but you wont believe me and that's fine. So all I can tell everyone that believes anything you say, is they should ask someone else. Im done with this, I know what the measurements are and what its going to take to fix it and if you did not replace the cross-member your frame is still illegal.

[gjohnson]

Stock Car Racer. I'm not trying to get in the middle of this pissing match but. If you have pics of the fixes or how it's being done I'm sure I am not the only one that would find them helpful.

[DirtRacer9x]

Stock Car Racer. I'm not trying to get in the middle of this pissing match but. If you have pics of the fixes or how it's being done I'm sure I am not the only one that would find them helpful.Yes since we're not being informative and you are please post up these fixes Mr Informative for all of us. You're so nice and sweet to do that. Thanks!

[DaveBauerSS6]

"You're", you uneducated CA pu$$

What do you mean by CA?

[Krooser]

Dave I think he was dissing your home 20….

[DaveBauerSS6]

Been a day. That's a long time for a rattle mouth. We step on crickets in California.

[washeduptoo]

Chassis brand has a response on Facebook on the plans to repair chassis and explains the issue. Thanks

[stockcar5]

Here is the letter from GRT.

[let-r-eat]

You have any pictures of your repair?

thanks

[RaceTechKs]

Can't wait to see this repair, LOL. Wonder what guys will say when I put my frame rail Jig on these frames and it don't fit. All I will say is Go Home......LOL.

[dirtrace09]

I don't race an imca modified, but RaceTechKs why wouldn't the repair work? If all it needs is a frame rail moved out, then why wouldn't it be a successful fix?

[charcoal01]

They aren't measuring the rear frame rail, it's the actual clip that appears to be wrong, not just the rear frame rails that serve no purpose. The measurement that's wrong is a integral piece of the frame, is connected to the crossmember, and can't just simply be moved. I'm not sure what they're claiming, sounds like a cya deal.

[DirtRacer9x]

Make them pay for shipping on all of the "illegal" cars built. They have the measurements people and rules to follow. Your GRT chassis is illegal. All I can say with this company is Karma. Make them give you a new chassis, pay to shio yours to them, or get some kind of great hook up. That's not right to build all of these cars and not informing your customers the car is illegal. Just not right.

[RaceTechKs]

Charcoal01: You are correct, I know for a fact that the frames cross members have been cut. There are several people that know this and have seen it, even the guys who have the cars know it and have seen it. And NO GRT will not take the cars back. We have one guy here that has a Brand New car that's just the Frame and Body and he has not touched a thing on it. GRT will not take it back, they told him they don't take trades on used frames....... Its a Brand New car that was picked up in August and has not been touched since. Now there saying there simply going to cut the frame rail and add a piece to it and weld it back together. Sorry but that's NOT FIXING WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. I don't care what anyone says, I know what Myself and other Tech Officials have looked at and seen.

[DirtRacer9x]

GRT is crap and they are money hungry and don't care about their customers. They only see green green green. If this isn't a huge red flag then I dunno what is. Finally they stepped in their own sh1t. Bankrupt them would be fine by me. They are supposed to be selling imca legal cars. Well that was a lie. Oh ya and the parts they like wearing out on you so you spend more money. Can't stand these pr1cks.

[7uptruckracer]

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I mean the problem is they have the rule books or access to them its IN the rules! Your buying a car to "fit" those rules. So its like your asking for trouble. I hope they get it straight it would be in their best interest for future sales.

[7uptruckracer]

You're 100% correct I apologize. No where does it say LEGAL. It only says STANDARD IMCA STYLE CAR.

[CHRISTINE]

I dont understand why everyone is bashing GRT i dont have one but every chassis mfg has gray areas on there cars and like GRT said when has IMCA ever checked these measurements? they started at Boone this year and there were several cars fixed that week we were parked next to one built out of Texas no names.When did any racer buy a new car and put the tape measure to it? I would think no many of us....Its our job to make sure our car is legal.

[DirtRacer9x]

Bashing a company that is crap to begin with. Like I said thy care about the money more than the people buying from them. This is from experience too btw. I'm glad I got rid of mine before this hit.

[CHRISTINE]

Haven't looked but aint there cars in line price wise with everyone else's?

[DirtRacer9x]

Haven't looked but aint there cars in line price wise with everyone else's?I'm referring to the guy on the phone (I forgot his name) who said, "we want things to wear out or bend easily so we can make money". This is the greed I'm talking about.

[oldtrackchamp4x]

I agree that all chassis builders look for a gray area where they can gain an advantage on other chassis builders. The problem lies with "any" chassis builder saying " when has IMCA ever checked these measurements". It doesn't matter if they have never checked those measurements before. They all know what the measurements are supposed to be when they build the chassis and the measurements should be built to those specs. That would be like me saying,"the tech inspector never measures for midplate to rearend measurement" and then getting disqualified when it is to short. Rules are rules. JMO.

[Hagen14t]

It amazes me how ridiculous you guys sound. I own a GRT and have been on the phone many a times with zach and joe, and they have been more than willing to help fix the issue. Worry about your own (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) rather than sit on the interand bash a company that beats you week in and week out. Go work on your own stuff. Top 2 in the duel with this problem fixed, more domination coming in 2015.

[let-r-eat]

I was just wondering if anyone had a pic of a repaired one. I'd like to see what one looks like after it's fixed.

[RaceTechKs]

Hey Stock Car Driver........Go to: Austin Johnson, Facebook page and listen to the video. I'm tired of you telling everyone that we don't know what were talking about. And just so everyone knows. The fix there doing is such a joke that one of there "Authorized" dealers will no longer do them because he don't want his name on it. He told me its not going to pass tech and he won't repair any more until something else is done. One car that has already been repaired to what GRT says there going to do I have measured, and it will not pass the measurements. I don't know what to tell any of you at this point. Other then good luck.

[DirtRacer9x]

Jeff aka Stocky your frame is illegal get outta here.

[charlie115]

guess that makes mine illegal too. guess what I plan on racing it this year. grt said they will take care of it and im sure they will. charlie

[RaceTechKs]

Stock Car: Schmuck ?????? Son I have been around racing for a long time, Probably longer then you even are old. I have seen a lot of blowhards like you come and go, a lot more then I care to. I have probably forgot more then you even know (sounds like something you would say don't it). I can tell you there are a lot of guys I know that are NOT very happy with ANY of the chassis builders that have done this with the frames. Weather your going to admit it or not, YOU know that I know whats been done to these frames. And just so you know, Because you have made a statement that's is an ABSOLUTE LIE is that Jerry Hoffman copied that car that was purchased. He never copied nothing, the only thing that was done is that car was put on a legal jig and checked......Hell it was so far out it would not even fit a legal jig. So now you know that FACT, NOT THE LIE YOU AND GRT HAS STATED. I will make you a bet....I bet Joe Garrison has told Terry to keep his mouth shut from now on......You want to bet on that, Or are you still thinking that GRT is telling you the truth. So call your names make your false accusations and say what you want, I know I'm right and you know I am to, but wont admit it, and that's fine with me. Good Luck with your racing program next year.......

[dirty white boy]

been alotta grt's show up last few weeks for sale an most cheap,..and this ant even OWM country round here....

[DirtRacer9x]

This is what karma is all about. I can't stand that company.

[TS3g]

Have we established who can piss the farthest yet?

[powerslide]

Have we established who can piss the farthest yet?

I think they might just be more dumbest enough to try it into the wind. TS3 we will LET you be the judge.

[MM90]

I'm pretty sure Hoffman copied Dirt Works. It's even been written about when DW joined Hoffman that Hoffman was a glorified DW8. Now to the GRT deal, that's for you guys to go back and forth about.

[hasben]

All of the responses seem to revolve around IMCA. What about USMTS;USRA; AMRA, WISSOTA or any other sanctioning body? Are the frames legal with them or do they just not look for such as that?

[ask0329]

been alotta grt's show up last few weeks for sale an most cheap,..and this ant even OWM country round here....

Where are the cheap GRT's? I'll take one. They dont even check for license's up here in the Northeast so theres no way in heck anyone is climbing under any cars to measure frames. Matter of fact, they dont tech anything up in the northeast ever. The only things i've ever had teched was the date on my helmet and date on my belts.

[NAYRBNYLF]

Imo, do away with they aftermarket stubs, although it won't keep us builders from manipulating the factory ones,

[setup479point2]

My thoughts through this whole thread has been , ' why is any sanctioning body even worrying about this ' . Next thing you'll need is an IMCA approved clip that will cost more $ and have to have a IMCA sticker on it . Really glad I don't have to deal with all the idiocy . We've raced a bent clip , that I know wouldn't have passed any measurement . didn't fix it because the car was fast , raced it for 2 seasons that way , in IMCA land we'd have had to replace it and cost more $ . I really feel for you guys out there . As for getting rid of the aftermarket frames , ....... when is the last time you saw a 68 - 72 Chevelle sitting in a junkyard ?

[NAYRBNYLF]

That's my point.

[charcoal01]

Maybe a dumb question, but once powder coated, how do you tell the difference from factory stamping and aftermarket? Is there a factory number somewhere? Or is it just the crappy welds on factory stubs that give it away

[r3tracing]

Maybe a dumb question, but once powder coated, how do you tell the difference from factory stamping and aftermarket? Is there a factory number somewhere? Or is it just the crappy welds on factory stubs that give it away

Crappy welds and apparently width of frame rails now

[Confused?]

There are several subtle differences. Dimples and holes used by GM and not used on the kits.

If someone thinks the welds are "crappy", consider that the cage is built the same.

[Confused?]

I would hope so

[charcoal01]

Yes, oem welds look much different and sloppier than new fabbed clips. Although I think most good builders would weld over the oem welds.

[fitz18]

How far back with the GRT cars does this frame issue go? Is it something thats been done in the past couple of years or what?

[Anonymous24]

I think its SCD thats the one who fancies stirring the pot and telling others they are wrong when its he who isnt even in the ball park. Not saying all info he posts is junk, I am saying most of it is tho. That car constantly seeks me out to start stuff. One would think he would have better things to do with his time.