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View Full Version : Your thoughts on this? From driver Brandon Thirlby's Facebook page a few days ago....



HoosierDirtFan
02-06-2015, 09:53 PM
From Michigan UMP Super Late Model driver #m14 Brandon Thirlby's Facebook page posted a few days ago.
Your Thought's on this.
-
Ignorance truly is bliss.

I've been trying to bit my tongue while reading all of this anti UMP Late Model in Michigan propaganda spewed all over Facebook the past couple of days.

Well, I'm here to set he record strait with FACTS not OPINIONS. This post will not turn into a spirited debate of tires, cost, car count, ect. This post will simply clear up some common misconceptions and explain why Michigan UMP Late Model tracks don't have 35+ car counts and what an actual Super Late Model truly is. Also, I will be using direct quotes from recent Facebook post I've read to further clear up the main misconceptions about UMP Late Models.

I guess we'll start with everyone's main concern, tires. "We need to go back to AR's so the low budget racer can actually buy affordable tires". "The Hoosier tire doesn't last near as long as my AR's". One of my personal favorites "I can't races there because I'd have to buy a bunch of new rims".

1st off I'd like to say, I'm not taking any personal jabs at any under funded late model teams, and most importantly I have a lot of respect for MOST drivers that do a lot with a little. In fact this only pertains to a few select individuals who have decided to bash UMP, some of them who aren't even racers themselves. But the fact of the matter is, (most of) the under funded teams don't buy brand new Hoosier tires, they buy used tires from guys like me or one of the dozen or so actual Super Late Model teams in Michigan. They range from $25-$75 depending on the condition. If you can find a guy selling used AR's cheaper, let me know so can buy them and turn a profit. So I don't need to be reading about how expensive Hoosier tires are from a guy who has never bought a new tire or anyone who doesn't even have a dog in the fight. There is a stamp on the side wall of the Hoosier tire that reveals it's compound (soft, medium, hard) same with the AR's. If we ran the soft compound of AR tire, they would actually wear out quicker than the soft Hoosier LM tire. So if you want to debate over how long the Hoosier last Vs the AR's, your just compairing apples to oranges at this point. Also if you even semi-serious or just a Saturday night racer with a late model, you probably own some tire spoons and a bead breaker. I don't care how many rims you own, it takes less that 1/2 hour to dismount and mount 4 tires.

Once again, I'd like to start off by saying I don't want to take anything away from any tracks owners / promoters. I admire all your hard work and dedication each and every one of you put in to let us enjoy our weekend hobby. Also, I've never walked a mile in your shoes, nor do I want to., these are merely suggestions so tread lightly. If this job was easy, everyone would be doing it.

The 2nd biggest concern is car count. "The Late Model car ciunt at Merritt was way better that any UMP track in Michigan". "UMP is killing (late model) car counts in Michigan!". Well folks sometimes the truth hurts and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there's only about 15-18 actual Super Late Models in the entire state of Michigan. The rest are hopped up Sportsman cars with Late Model tires bolted on. merritt Speedway had a rough 20 car field of hopped up Sportsman's every night with a few Super Late Models sprinkled in. The rest of the Super Late Models were strung across our state of Michigan at "Track X & Track Y".

That brings me to my next point, it's not UMP killing the Michigan Late Models, when it comes right down to it, it's the promoters/ owners. They don't realize that the FACT of the matter is there isn't enough actual Super Late Models to race on a weekly basis. The only way actual Super Late Models will ever thrive in the state of Michigan is if the promoters come together as a team.

In a perfect world we would have 2-3 Friday night UMP tracks and 2-3 Saturday Night UMP tracks. These tracks would each host a Super Late Model event every other 3rd weekend, instead of having 4-5 tracks racing against each other on "weekend X" then only 1-2 racing against each other on "weekend Y". In this perfect world you would still have most of the actual Super Late Models at your track every other to every 3rd weekend. (Once again, this is in a "perfect world" and if it were at all possible I'm sure someone a lot smarter than myself would be doing it right now).

Last but not least, I wanted to point out a few more misunderstandings about racing UMP Late Models in Michigan. "You need an unlimited budget to race UMP Late Models"
"To compete with those guys you need to be willing to spend $100,000+ a year when it's all said and done" "I can't compete, my stuff (equipment) is too out dated and out powered to run with those guys"

I have ZERO problem what so ever (repeat ZERO problem) with guys spending their hard earned money dirt Late Model racing, but at the end of the day the result is an out dated chassis with non adjustable shocks and not an ounce of aluminum can be found in, at or around their power plant. What I do have a problem with, is the guys complaining that they can't compete! The truth is, you couldn't compete in any unsanctioned Late Model race or UMP Late Model race, so pleas stop spreading false information about the matter.

I've got a funny lil' story for you, one of the few actual Super Late Model drivers in Michigan who happens to be slightly underfunded, had motor problems on a Friday night at I-96. The following night this same driver showed up to Winston Speedway with a 10+ year old MasterSbilt & with a crate motor. I was a distant 2nd place to this guy with my "$100,000+ race car". The FACT is, this driver has been doing his homework for years and is one hell of a wheel man, He won the A-Main hands down!

In conclusion, I don't honestly car if Merritt Speedway becomes Unsanctioned, UMO or even open for business this year at all, I'll probably only attend one or two races throughout the entire season. But the main point is that there are a lot of common misconceptions about UMP Late Models in the state of Michigan. And for the guys who have never, nor have any intentions of buying new Hoosier tires to say they are too expensive seems pretty ignorant to me. " Race with in your means", if you want to complain about how much money you have to spend to be competitive , yet you can't event compete with the guys a class or two below you. Maybe it's time to reconsider you entire out look in your racing operation. Also , if you have never raced a Super Late Model, sponsored, crewed, or had any intentions of doing so, please keep you OPINIONS to yourself. You have no control over who reads what you type, and your word could lead to further biased OPINIONS for someone who has never heard the FACTS. Finally , there's only one possible explanation that could sum up how this particular subject can breed this much anger.
"They hate us, cus they ain't us"

Dante Toledo, OH
02-07-2015, 06:39 AM
If UMP was really bad for Late Model Racing in Michigan, why do so many of their good super Late Model travel out of Michigan to run UMP? Ruhlman runs Oakshade every Sat, and all the Eldora events, and has been a ALMS champion. Marcouiler has been an Oakshade champ. Thrilby just won ALMS. Jeep and Curtis Roberts both have World of Outlaws wins in Michigan in the last two years. Neither runs weekly in their home state. They do have some other good cars that don't travel as much like Hotovy, Vanderveen, Spangler, Neisler. But that is about it. My take 1. Not enough quality cars/drivers. 2. Not enough tracks that pay good weekly or for points. 3. Most of the good cars with good drivers travel.

hpmaster
02-07-2015, 08:13 AM
I just did a Goggle search on Brandon Thirlby in Michigan. He works at his families auto parts company that also sponsors him, yes company not a single store its stores plural, over 10 stores in Michigan and then other related business'. I am not knocking his families success just saying he may not fully understand his competitors plight or even care. I have very wealthy friends that race sports cars for "fun". It is a club sport of the near or totally filthy rich. If LM racing doesn't get a handle on some of these issues be it engines, tires, shocks, or what else in racing it may become an elite club sport for the very rich. For a guy getting backing at this level talking about if you can't afford to run go to a cheaper class only makes all the cost issues clearer JMHO.

hpmaster
02-07-2015, 08:28 AM
Thanks for the note latemodefan/Lite-Inn, I thought I would post it for all to see.

latemodefan
Senior Member

Join Date
Nov 2014
Posts
126
Brandon Thirlby
lil info for he can't drive a lick and you are a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) hey that rhymes

Dante Toledo, OH
02-07-2015, 09:17 AM
True enough Hoosier. Very good iarticle by Brandon. I have Learned that if you want to play you have to pay. It is just too bad that there could not be a combination of tires that you could use to keep everyone happy. I also think that SLM's should race only against other SLM's. sportsman should also run only against other Sportsman. Brandon has very good thoughts in his statement. Hopefully the Michigan tracks can figure something out for the best of all tracks and racers. That would be awesome for all.I think his point is. Most of the people complaining about UMP would be under funded and behind financialy in any series anywhere. Or don't race at all. Also thrilby runs almost all his races under UMP so he is sticking up for the series that pays him.

chupp n bloomer fan
02-07-2015, 09:35 AM
I just did a Goggle search on Brandon Thirlby in Michigan. He works at his families auto parts company that also sponsors him, yes company not a single store its stores plural, over 10 stores in Michigan and then other related business'. I am not knocking his families success just saying he may not fully understand his competitors plight or even care. I have very wealthy friends that race sports cars for "fun". It is a club sport of the near or totally filthy rich. If LM racing doesn't get a handle on some of these issues be it engines, tires, shocks, or what else in racing it may become an elite club sport for the very rich. For a guy getting backing at this level talking about if you can't afford to run go to a cheaper class only makes all the cost issues clearer JMHO.While I do agree with you. I see his point also. There's plenty that don't hold up their end of being an adult. Blow it on racing, and not pay bills etc. The ones that couldn't afford to race ten years ago are the same ones who can't afford to race now.

Though yes, a guy who switched from Powerboat racing, to this, not really the best spokesman. I think a Chub Frank or Ronnie Johnson would be a better spokesman for racing. Other than he is mostly addressing UMP racing in Mich. I'm talking about DLM racing in general. Kris Patterson or Ruhlman, there's some good people to speak of UMP and Meechigan.

hpmaster
02-07-2015, 10:30 AM
This comes from Brandon's piece "There is a stamp on the side wall of the Hoosier tire that reveals it's compound (soft, medium, hard) same with the AR's. If we ran the soft compound of AR tire, they would actually wear out quicker than the soft Hoosier LM tire." This is not a true or even justifiable statement. The AR-56 tire that is required on the web pages of several Michigan tracks durometers at 55 to 60 new and even slightly harder used. This is compareable to the hardest UMP-40 that runs at a reading of about 60. Hoosier ump tires cost from $160.00 to $175.00 a copy and come in 3 compounds 20, 30 and the above mentioned 40's. The AR-56 costs $125.00 to $135.00 each. You put all guys on one alike tire you will cut costs to all.

IZZOJR16
02-07-2015, 01:59 PM
what a little sh5t, talk about get off your high horse.

Pops15
02-07-2015, 02:30 PM
Has there always been a shortage of supers in Michigan? If not, what caused the shortage of supers in Michigan now?
Most likely the same things that have caused car counts to drop in other areas....
The initial investment. The weekly cost. Stagnant payouts.

I don't have a problem with Thirby's opinions other than to say it's pretty arrogant to think that only a racer, sponsor or crew person can have an informed opinion.

racer67x
02-07-2015, 03:21 PM
Has there always been a shortage of supers in Michigan? If not, what caused the shortage of supers in Michigan now?
Most likely the same things that have caused car counts to drop in other areas....
The initial investment. The weekly cost. Stagnant payouts.

I don't have a problem with Thirby's opinions other than to say it's pretty arrogant to think that only a racer, sponsor or crew person can have an informed opinion.

I went to Michigan and bought an '04 Rocket a few years back..after getting it home I realized that the Michigan cars are built with a good bit more engine setback than a normal Rocket.
asked Baker about this cheating frame I had and his response was "its not cheating up there"..
so the cars are a little different than other places.
but this guy sounds like just another spoiled kid with a wealthy family...

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 03:24 PM
Crystal and Tri city aren't UMP and run ARs and get more cars than the UMP. Tri city gets a few less than Crystal because they run Friday nights and not everyone can get out of work and to the track in time which is understandable. Crystal was getting 22-26, one or two nights they had 30 cars last year on Saturday nights while Winston was getting 10-12 and Winston was basing their payoff on car counts. 12 or less paid $600 to win. Big bad Thirlby with his 3 or 4 cars, Rhyne and Malicut motors or cornett's and Billy Moyer's ex- toter home and stacker trailer couldn't beat 10-12 cars at Winston. The same guy, Rich Neiser wins every week. Thirbly is one of the biggest overrated drivers in the region.

It's the same with modifieds. The IMCA tracks are getting 2-3 times more as the UMP ones. I96 runs UMP mods weekly and they started a "pro" mod class last year which is IMCA cars without using the sanction name and I believe they were getting more of those than the UMP guys.

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 03:30 PM
Where Ruhlman lives, the closest track to him IS Oakshade.

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 03:38 PM
Here's last years payout

http://www.racewinston.com/driver-info/2014-weekly-payout/

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 03:49 PM
Tri City pays $1055 to win $200 to start. IMCA mods are $535 to win $100 to start.

Not sure what Crystal pays for LM to win was $950 about 5 years ago, has to be $1000-$1100 by now and $200 to start. And IMCA mods had a raise last year now $600 to win $200 to start, they get 30-35 a week. Neither tracks adjust the payout to car counts in ANY class.

IZZOJR16
02-07-2015, 03:52 PM
we get it, racing is expensive and always will be. however, when THESE KIDS that have daddy there and then act like they know and understand the plight for the Jason Fegers and Chub Franks of the World, it never comes across well for them. Just look how Thirbly contradicts himself in his stupid little rant. hes basically saying " hey you can't afford to compete or stay in racing too bad stop complaining " then this idiot goes on to brag about getting beat by an under funded team. "They hate us, cus they ain't us" - I would love for this punk Thirby to have a conversion with Brian Birkhofer and a few others. Ok my rant is done for now!

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 04:12 PM
What's your point? The tri city link you posted was the year end big show. This results arent complete. I was there. There was well more than 6 cars.

The Crystal link you posted is also a year end non points night.

hpmaster
02-07-2015, 04:29 PM
http://www.tricityracetrack.com/results/?/results/index.php here is the the truth tot good folks on 4m

Once again Lite-Inn/Latemodefan distorts the facts. I went on the TryCity link Lite-Inn/Latemodefan supplied after Lite-Inn/Latemodefan in as much insinuated a very good and fair 4M guy MI Dirt Fan a liar. Lite-Inn/Latemodefan takes one 6 car a main from a Saturday on a track that runs FRIDAYS and throws that up as fact for an entire year. I went back thru the earlier dates and EVERYTHING Mi Dirt Fan was very true, completely honest about car count at that TryCity place. Lite-Inn/latemodefan you can get a new screen name every time you get banned but YOU never change. I for one believe Lite-Inn/latemodefan owes Mi Dirt Fan an apology.

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 04:32 PM
I just checked. Tri City had 31 LM that night. Its too bad about Latemodelfan all that red under his screen name speaks for itself.

Highside Hustler25
02-07-2015, 05:41 PM
Once again Lite-Inn/Latemodefan distorts the facts. I went on the TryCity link Lite-Inn/Latemodefan supplied after Lite-Inn/Latemodefan in as much insinuated a very good and fair 4M guy MI Dirt Fan a liar. Lite-Inn/Latemodefan takes one 6 car a main from a Saturday on a track that runs FRIDAYS and throws that up as fact for an entire year. I went back thru the earlier dates and EVERYTHING Mi Dirt Fan was very true, completely honest about car count at that TryCity place. Lite-Inn/latemodefan you can get a new screen name every time you get banned but YOU never change. I for one believe Lite-Inn/latemodefan owes Mi Dirt Fan an apology.

I can only give one word of advise for infestations such as this.





WHACK THE MOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hpmaster
02-07-2015, 06:15 PM
know your facts have the guys there run ump exactly what brandon thirlby was saying nd i am not the one distorting th facts the person that put the results on web change did

Run a UMP track, Winston for $600.00 to win based on car count and have to have three different tires lm20, lm30 and lm40s or run a single tire AR-56 for over a $1000.00 to win at several tracks. Only a rich spoiled brat who's daddy owns his cars would say UMP is the way to go.

WHACK THE MOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

goincircles
02-07-2015, 07:31 PM
Crystal and Tri city aren't UMP and run ARs and get more cars than the UMP. Tri city gets a few less than Crystal because they run Friday nights and not everyone can get out of work and to the track in time which is understandable. Crystal was getting 22-26, one or two nights they had 30 cars last year on Saturday nights while Winston was getting 10-12 and Winston was basing their payoff on car counts. 12 or less paid $600 to win. Big bad Thirlby with his 3 or 4 cars, Rhyne and Malicut motors or cornett's and Billy Moyer's ex- toter home and stacker trailer couldn't beat 10-12 cars at Winston. The same guy, Rich Neiser wins every week. Thirbly is one of the biggest overrated drivers in the region.

It's the same with modifieds. The IMCA tracks are getting 2-3 times more as the UMP ones. I96 runs UMP mods weekly and they started a "pro" mod class last year which is IMCA cars without using the sanction name and I believe they were getting more of those than the UMP guys.

. Big bad Thirlby with his 3 or 4 cars, Rhyne and Malicut motors or cornett's and Billy Moyer's ex- toter home and stacker trailer couldn't beat 10-12 cars at Winston. The same guy, Rich Neiser wins every week. Thirbly is one of the biggest overrated drivers in the region.
Thats pretty funny and true

MI Dirt Fan
02-07-2015, 10:26 PM
Neiser basically only raced Winston last year.

Got anything else?

chupp n bloomer fan
02-07-2015, 10:33 PM
and your point is so he is one track wonder imagine thatHere's Litey. Don't race, but will knock an underfunded guy doing well with what he has. I'm guessing the guy Thirlby is talking about is him.

Fredfred Burger
02-08-2015, 03:54 AM
Bottom line is Thirlby would care if he wasn't so well off. Should anyone care what he thinks? It is a bit arrogant to make this facebook post when you have never been in these other peoples shoes. Ump late model and modified racing is becoming a sport for royalty not for working people. You're a lucky rich kid. You win Thirlby.

hpmaster
02-08-2015, 07:22 AM
RUNNING FOR 600 TO WIN IS THE PROBLEM and you don't have to run all three you dummy they run in Il and missouri and imagine that they get a better can count

You have never raced LITE-INN/Latemodefan but you can tell everyone who has how to be competitive with 1 compound against a guy with all three and all for $600.00 a night to win. Stay in the stands and eat your hotdogs with all the "real" expert sausage drivers.

WHACK THE MOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chupp n bloomer fan
02-08-2015, 10:41 AM
no you miss the point he is a one track wonder y ou can all themoney in the world and race only one track alsoSee the Conleys. No offense to them. And it depends which one and what year. But that's because of their business too.

No I didn't. My point is you're bashng a guy for running one night. You don't race, and don't know his work circumstances. I'm sure if he had the time and money he'd probably race more. Help fund him, crew his car, and maybe he'll race more. Many people work six seven days a week and race when they can. Don't know Neislers actual situation, but if he's running one night a week I'd say I'm on target with his situation.

Highside Hustler25
02-08-2015, 11:03 AM
Bottom line is Thirlby would care if he wasn't so well off. Should anyone care what he thinks? It is a bit arrogant to make this facebook post when you have never been in these other peoples shoes. Ump late model and modified racing is becoming a sport for royalty not for working people. You're a lucky rich kid. You win Thirlby.

Something must have changed since the last time I witnessed Brandon race on the Hell Tour. If he's a rich kid, it sure didn't show by his racing team a couple years ago.

cgrace
02-08-2015, 11:09 AM
Something must have changed since the last time I witnessed Brandon race on the Hell Tour. If he's a rich kid, it sure didn't show by his racing team a couple years ago. brandon and colin r pretty humble guys. treat peops around em w respect. ya their dad has been footin their racin so what all of us would if we could. least they don't run others over like others.. think they were gettin use to lates on a few of hell tour seasons

chupp n bloomer fan
02-08-2015, 09:14 PM
guess what do your research he race s more than one night a week kinda hard to be 19 th in points running one night a week , kinda hard to get 30 nights of racing in mi at one trackYou said he's a one track wonder, not me. I stated IF he's only running one night a week I'm sure he has his reasons.

Clayton_Wetter
02-12-2015, 03:59 PM
Thanks for the note latemodefan/Lite-Inn, I thought I would post it for all to see.

latemodefan
Senior Member

Join Date
Nov 2014
Posts
126
Brandon Thirlby
lil info for he can't drive a lick and you are a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) hey that rhymes

Hahahaha, That's LITE-MODEFAN for ya!!! By the way LITE-INN is now unbanned so look for the flip flopping!