Rayburn spindles on a smackdown

[TLM4t4]

So over the winter I've been doing some thinking. I drove for a guy 2 years ago that had a Rayburn and it steered and drove like a dream, you just didn't know which way the rear end was headed. So what I've thought about was putting Rayburn spindles on my car, but there's 2 things that are different. 1 being spindle height, but I can get the same control arm angle and moment center location by taller ball joints or moving my mounting points on the control arm up rights, which is no big deal. The 2nd one is I will be taking some Ackerman out because the steering arms are a little shorter. Is this worth a try or am I opening up a can of worms? I really want the front end geometry software to plug my numbers in and see what I need to do. As of right now my UCA's and LCA lengths are very similar to what Cj runs.

[SuperEight]

There is a whole lot more to a front end and how well they steer than just swapping spindles. In my view your approach is, as you said, "opening up a can of worms". Analyze what you have now, the whole package: RC, Camber gain, Caster Gain, Bump and on and on. Once you have a complete view of what you have then you can best determine what changes to make to effect the change you want. It may turn out you need more inclination or a slightly taller RF spindle or steering arms with more ackerman or a combination or something all together different.

[TLM4t4]

I have good caster gain, horrible camber gain, and if try to turn the car under somebody on corner entry or in the center it won't do it. Nine times out of ten I either have to roll out the throttle and stay behind them until the next corner or break the car loose and try to turn under them. Seemed to me if I enter the corner high I come off high, I have no manovability to the bottom with wheel input. Now I can catch them in the corners and go high all day long, but sometimes there's nothing up there and I'm back tracking.

[hpmaster]

Get a front end program, Auto Ware is a good affordable one, plug in your numbers and play around with making it better on the computer. Read everything you can about front ends and also ask people to measure their cars. No instant miracles, just hard work and study.

[tommy-gunn]

I have good caster gain, horrible camber gain, and if try to turn the car under somebody on corner entry or in the center it won't do it. Nine times out of ten I either have to roll out the throttle and stay behind them until the next corner or break the car loose and try to turn under them. Seemed to me if I enter the corner high I come off high, I have no manovability to the bottom with wheel input. Now I can catch them in the corners and go high all day long, but sometimes there's nothing up there and I'm back tracking.

What are you currently running for caster and camber? What length control arms are you running that is giving you horrible camber gain? I feel like you would be better off spending your time fine tuning your current set up verses starting front scratch. Caster has a big effect on how your front end bites in the corner.

[TLM4t4]

I'm running standard smack front suspension. Left front upper is a 10½" with a 16⅝" lower, RF is 8½" upper with 18⅞" lower. I'm running the old style 6* spindles only because the 7* loads my car up across center making it tight. I'm running 2* caster LF with 3½* camber, and 4* caster RF with 5¼* camber. I have a raised frame rail and cross member smack but still have the problem of chassis drag every now and then. I do know the new s-7's fix that but it makes me way tight across center. As of now I'm running a 450 LF spring, a 600 over 400 with 1¼" of lock out, 200 LR, and a 275 RR. I run the long j-bar at 8½" center of pinion or ½" below depending. My percentages are 54% left, 53.5-54% rear. I have up to date Ohlins by a top builder and was very fast until last year. We have went back to the standard by the sheet settings and was way off. I'm just scratching my head right now! I'm more of a straight line, run in deep diver and keep the car under me driver. As of right now I'm grasping at straws.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I'm running standard smack front suspension. Left front upper is a 10½" with a 16⅝" lower, RF is 8½" upper with 18⅞" lower. I'm running the old style 6* spindles only because the 7* loads my car up across center making it tight. I'm running 2* caster LF with 3½* camber, and 4* caster RF with 5¼* camber. I have a raised frame rail and cross member smack but still have the problem of chassis drag every now and then. I do know the new s-7's fix that but it makes me way tight across center. As of now I'm running a 450 LF spring, a 600 over 400 with 1¼" of lock out, 200 LR, and a 275 RR. I run the long j-bar at 8½" center of pinion or ½" below depending. My percentages are 54% left, 53.5-54% rear. I have up to date Ohlins by a top builder and was very fast until last year. We have went back to the standard by the sheet settings and was way off. I'm just scratching my head right now! I'm more of a straight line, run in deep diver and keep the car under me driver. As of right now I'm grasping at straws.

You don't want to remove Ackerman from a smack car under any circumstances, imo. I think you are the first person I have heard prefer the old spindle to the s7. Put them back on and get the camber gain you want and try it again.

[hpmaster]

The S7 is very much like the current spindles found on many top cars. You do have to change how you drive some to get the most out of these type of spindles. We have updated several Masters, we have no problem getting very good caster and camber gains using S7 or several other of this similar type spindles.